The Four Horsemen

[hisvessel1]

May i ask what prophecys [sp] you've seen fullfilled? i'm curious.

Quite a few.
You want to read about the USA?

You say "quite a few". Are they past,present, or future?
Can you give me a good Christian web site to find scripture on the US being in scripture?

 

[David505]

Thanks hisvessel1,

Thanks for clearing that up. Here’s how I see it:

Rev.6:2 = white horse = False Prophet who facilitates Antichrist in midst of 70th week



"bow without arrows" = rainbow (Gen. 9: 12-17) = misbranding of God’s token by False Prophet

I realize I’m out on a limb here. I welcome criticism.

1. Here you go with that word again [criticism]. How about we disagree?
2.Does the false prophet wear a crown? No he does not.
3.Gen.9: 12 -17 God is talking to Noah. [Noahic Covenant]...No false prophet here that i can see.
4.Antichrist wears the crown. White horse...Rev.6:2
5. The false prophet comes out of the earth, Not the sea..Rev.13:11[/quote]

Thanks hisvessel1,

I don't think "criticism" has a negative connotation, and disagreement is fine as well. So, while we're comparing notes, do you think 666 is Antichrist's number?

 

[lecoop]

I am supposing that you can read and understand English?

If John wrote ONE SENTENCE after that verse, that was something about the future, and then all the rest his favorite recipes, he would not have broken this verse.

If you will note, it does NOT SAY that all John writes from this point on will be future. John saw a vision. So he wrote: "What you have seen." That vison was a vision OF THE PAST. So John did exactly what he was told: He wrote EXACTLY WHAT HE SAW in the vision. IT WAS GOD the created this vision of the past. If this bothers you, take it up with God, not me. I am only telling you what the intent of the Author, the Holy Spirit was in this vision.

John certain did write many things that were future to him then, and even future to us now, so he certainly fulfilled that verse.

Coop

I do not know what it is that you are trying to say, but the prophecy is about the past, present, and future. There are no historical facts to show that the first seal had already taken place in the past.

It is not hard to understand. Let me help. Compare the following TWO sentences:

19 Write ...the things which will take place after this.
19 Write ...ONLY the things which will take place after this.

God did not put the ONLY there: God did not limit JOhn to writing ONLY of future events. In fact, it is easy to see that Rev. 12: 1-5 is speaking of some historic events in John's life - events of his past.

In truth, John DID write the things he had seen, the things which were at his time, and then things of the future.

From the fifth seal onward, EVERYTHING JOhn wrote was future events, even to him, except for very minor exceptions like Rev. 12:1-5. So He certainly did do exactly what he was commanded to do.

The first seal was (and is) to represent the church, being sent out to make disciples of every nation. OF COURSE this is a historical fact. You see, at the time the church was sent out, it was the ONLY entity on earth that God would consider righteous, to meet what the color white represents. And of course, Satan would not just step aside and allow the church free entrance into HIS kingdoms - no - there would be LOTS OF conquering! Many men have died, taking the gospel to new "principalities."

Coop

 

[JudaicChristian]

It is not hard to understand. Let me help. Compare the following TWO sentences:

19 Write ...the things which will take place after this.
19 Write ...ONLY the things which will take place after this.

God did not put the ONLY there: God did not limit JOhn to writing ONLY of future events. In fact, it is easy to see that Rev. 12: 1-5 is speaking of some historic events in John's life - events of his past.

In truth, John DID write the things he had seen, the things which were at his time, and then things of the future.

From the fifth seal onward, EVERYTHING JOhn wrote was future events, even to him, except for very minor exceptions like Rev. 12:1-5. So He certainly did do exactly what he was commanded to do.

The first seal was (and is) to represent the church, being sent out to make disciples of every nation. OF COURSE this is a historical fact. You see, at the time the church was sent out, it was the ONLY entity on earth that God would consider righteous, to meet what the color white represents. And of course, Satan would not just step aside and allow the church free entrance into HIS kingdoms - no - there would be LOTS OF conquering! Many men have died, taking the gospel to new "principalities."

Coop

There are no historical facts to show that the first seal had already taken place in the past. The rider on the white horse with a crown is a man.

Revelation 6
The First Seal
1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

 

[lecoop]

It is not hard to understand. Let me help. Compare the following TWO sentences:

19 Write ...the things which will take place after this.
19 Write ...ONLY the things which will take place after this.

God did not put the ONLY there: God did not limit JOhn to writing ONLY of future events. In fact, it is easy to see that Rev. 12: 1-5 is speaking of some historic events in John's life - events of his past.

In truth, John DID write the things he had seen, the things which were at his time, and then things of the future.

From the fifth seal onward, EVERYTHING JOhn wrote was future events, even to him, except for very minor exceptions like Rev. 12:1-5. So He certainly did do exactly what he was commanded to do.

The first seal was (and is) to represent the church, being sent out to make disciples of every nation. OF COURSE this is a historical fact. You see, at the time the church was sent out, it was the ONLY entity on earth that God would consider righteous, to meet what the color white represents. And of course, Satan would not just step aside and allow the church free entrance into HIS kingdoms - no - there would be LOTS OF conquering! Many men have died, taking the gospel to new "principalities."

Coop

There are no historical facts to show that the first seal had already taken place in the past. The rider on the white horse with a crown is a man.

Revelation 6
The First Seal
1I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

Have you ever heard of "figurtive" language?

Figurative: "language not meant to be taken literally; also known as figures of speech (eg, metaphor, personification, hyperbole, and simile)"

We could say John's writing is very symbolic.

Symbolic: "serving as a visible symbol for something abstract; "a crown is emblematic of royalty"

John did see a horse and rider. But this was a vison and not real. Was there a real horse with a rider named death? What there a real horse with a rider that brought war?

No, this is symbalism. The horse is to represent something. The rider is to represent something.

Search the bible: you will find the bible uses a horse to represent warfare.
White ALWAYS refers to righteousness.
A Bow represents weapons; but without arrows, perhaps SPIRITUAL weapons.
"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal..."

Coop

 

[JudaicChristian]

Have you ever heard of "figurtive" language?

Figurative: "language not meant to be taken literally; also known as figures of speech (eg, metaphor, personification, hyperbole, and simile)"

We could say John's writing is very symbolic.

Symbolic: "serving as a visible symbol for something abstract; "a crown is emblematic of royalty"

John did see a horse and rider. But this was a vison and not real. Was there a real horse with a rider named death? What there a real horse with a rider that brought war?

No, this is symbalism. The horse is to represent something. The rider is to represent something.

Search the bible: you will find the bible uses a horse to represent warfare.
White ALWAYS refers to righteousness.
A Bow represents weapons; but without arrows, perhaps SPIRITUAL weapons.
"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal..."

Coop

I doubt that anyone knows more about the parabolic language of the bible than I do. It is a special study of mine, and I have a long list of words that are used as such. The rider of the white horse in Rev 6 is a Christian man living in America. The red horse is Islam. The black horse is Russia. A bow is symbolic of "action." The word "thunder" is also symbolic of action, and Sons of God are the Seven Thunders. The Seven Thunders are the Seven [Churchs/Congregations.]

 

[lecoop]

Have you ever heard of "figurtive" language?

Figurative: "language not meant to be taken literally; also known as figures of speech (eg, metaphor, personification, hyperbole, and simile)"

We could say John's writing is very symbolic.

Symbolic: "serving as a visible symbol for something abstract; "a crown is emblematic of royalty"

John did see a horse and rider. But this was a vison and not real. Was there a real horse with a rider named death? What there a real horse with a rider that brought war?

No, this is symbalism. The horse is to represent something. The rider is to represent something.

Search the bible: you will find the bible uses a horse to represent warfare.
White ALWAYS refers to righteousness.
A Bow represents weapons; but without arrows, perhaps SPIRITUAL weapons.
"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal..."

Coop

I doubt that anyone knows more about the parabolic language of the bible than I do. It is a special study of mine, and I have a long list of words that are used as such. The rider of the white horse in Rev 6 is a Christian man living in America. The red horse is Islam. The black horse is Russia. A bow is symbolic of "action." The word "thunder" is also symbolic of action, and Sons of God are the Seven Thunders. The Seven Thunders are the Seven [Churchs/Congregations.]

Do you think this had ANY MEANING AT ALL to the first readers? Place yourself (in your imagination) in one of the seven churches this book was first sent to. It is about 95 AD. These first seals had to have meaning to them.

Next, read the vision in chapters 4 & 5 about 30 times. Ask yourself (and the Holy Spirit) WHY He would show a search made for one worthy, that ended in failure, and why it was necessary for Him to include that John wept much. Did we NEED to know of a failed search? In fact, WHY, in a vision in about 95 AD of a search, why WOULD it end in failure? Jesus had become the redeemer about 60 years past from this date. I will save you a lot of time that I had to spend bugging God about these things: this was a vision into John's past, back to a time while Jesus was still on the earth. He had not yet ascended in the FIRST part of this vision. So of course the search for one worthy FAILED. It had to fail, because Jesus had not yet become the Redeemer of man. You will note also that Jesus was NOT at the right hand of the Father at that time. Why? Of course, because He was on the earth. You will note that the Holy Spirit was still there in the throne room, when Jesus said that as soon as He ascended He would send Him down. Of course He was still there, because at this point in the vision, Jesus was still on earth - had not yet ascended. Then, when John was told He could quit weeping, He turned and saw Jesus at the throne, as a lamb having been slain. In other words, Jesus had JUST ASCENDED. This whole vision was to show TIMING and THE PASSAGE OF TIME. And of course to give us the conext of the first seals.

Now, go and search diligently for 2000 years of time between ANY verses after Jesus ascended.

YOu will NOT find it. The moment Jesus arrived in heaven, He went straight to Father God to get the scroll, because, until the seals were broken, there could be NO WAY that the kingdoms of the world would EVER become the kingdoms of our Lord. The entire kingdom of heaven had been waiting since Adam for the Redeemer to come; one worthy to take the scroll.

So your above post is nothing but imagination, far FAR from the intent of the Author. The intent of the Author, the HOly Spirit, is that this first seal represent the church of Jesus Christ, sent out to fulfill the great commission. (added later.)

Coop

 

[JudaicChristian]

Do you think this had ANY MEANING AT ALL to the first readers? Place yourself (in your imagination) in one of the seven churches this book was first sent to. It is about 95 AD. These first seals had to have meaning to them.

Next, read the vision in chapters 4 & 5 about 30 times. Ask yourself (and the Holy Spirit) WHY He would show a search made for one worthy, that ended in failure, and why it was necessary for Him to include that John wept much. Did we NEED to know of a failed search? In fact, WHY, in a vision in about 95 AD of a search, why WOULD it end in failure? Jesus had become the redeemer about 60 years past from this date. I will save you a lot of time that I had to spend bugging God about these things: this was a vision into John's past, back to a time while Jesus was still on the earth. He had not yet ascended in the FIRST part of this vision. So of course the search for one worthy FAILED. It had to fail, because Jesus had not yet become the Redeemer of man. You will note also that Jesus was NOT at the right hand of the Father at that time. Why? Of course, because He was on the earth. You will note that the Holy Spirit was still there in the throne room, when Jesus said that as soon as He ascended He would send Him down. Of course He was still there, because at this point in the vision, Jesus was still on earth - had not yet ascended. Then, when John was told He could quit weeping, He turned and saw Jesus at the throne, as a lamb having been slain. In other words, Jesus had JUST ASCENDED. This whole vision was to show TIMING and THE PASSAGE OF TIME. And of course to give us the conext of the first seals.

Now, go and search diligently for 2000 years of time between ANY verses after Jesus ascended.

YOu will NOT find it. The moment Jesus arrived in heaven, He went straight to Father God to get the scroll, because, until the seals were broken, there could be NO WAY that the kingdoms of the world would EVER become the kingdoms of our Lord. The entire kingdom of heaven had been waiting since Adam for the Redeemer to come; one worthy to take the scroll.

So your above post is nothing but imagination, far FAR from the intent of the Author. The intent of the Author, the HOly Spirit, is that this first seal represent the church of Jesus Christ, sent out to fulfill the great commission. (added later.)

Coop

Hello walls! :ohwell

 

[lecoop]

Do you think this had ANY MEANING AT ALL to the first readers? Place yourself (in your imagination) in one of the seven churches this book was first sent to. It is about 95 AD. These first seals had to have meaning to them.

Next, read the vision in chapters 4 & 5 about 30 times. Ask yourself (and the Holy Spirit) WHY He would show a search made for one worthy, that ended in failure, and why it was necessary for Him to include that John wept much. Did we NEED to know of a failed search? In fact, WHY, in a vision in about 95 AD of a search, why WOULD it end in failure? Jesus had become the redeemer about 60 years past from this date. I will save you a lot of time that I had to spend bugging God about these things: this was a vision into John's past, back to a time while Jesus was still on the earth. He had not yet ascended in the FIRST part of this vision. So of course the search for one worthy FAILED. It had to fail, because Jesus had not yet become the Redeemer of man. You will note also that Jesus was NOT at the right hand of the Father at that time. Why? Of course, because He was on the earth. You will note that the Holy Spirit was still there in the throne room, when Jesus said that as soon as He ascended He would send Him down. Of course He was still there, because at this point in the vision, Jesus was still on earth - had not yet ascended. Then, when John was told He could quit weeping, He turned and saw Jesus at the throne, as a lamb having been slain. In other words, Jesus had JUST ASCENDED. This whole vision was to show TIMING and THE PASSAGE OF TIME. And of course to give us the conext of the first seals.

Now, go and search diligently for 2000 years of time between ANY verses after Jesus ascended.

YOu will NOT find it. The moment Jesus arrived in heaven, He went straight to Father God to get the scroll, because, until the seals were broken, there could be NO WAY that the kingdoms of the world would EVER become the kingdoms of our Lord. The entire kingdom of heaven had been waiting since Adam for the Redeemer to come; one worthy to take the scroll.

So your above post is nothing but imagination, far FAR from the intent of the Author. The intent of the Author, the HOly Spirit, is that this first seal represent the church of Jesus Christ, sent out to fulfill the great commission. (added later.)

Coop

Hello walls! :ohwell

Well, you are sure free to believe what you choose. But for most of us, we want to believe what the author believed when He wrote it.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You say "quite a few". Are they past,present, or future?
Can you give me a good Christian web site to find scripture on the US being in scripture?

past present and future

Both Iraq wars for instance.I have a problem copying and pasting my notes on this site though.My notes are highlighted and when I attempt to put them on this site all the highlighting vanishes.It only makes people confused.It takes me hours to go though all the notes highlighting them again so I dont like doing it at all.

 

[hisvessel1]

May I suggest that you study the CONTEXT of the first seal, so you know WHEN?

That knowledge will go a long way to showing who or what is to be represented by this first horse and rider.

Coop

When is now, but who can see it.

Revelation 6
The Seals
1. I watched as the Lamb/Yahshua opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures/beings say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2. I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

The red horse is the Middle East and also later the Far East conflict. [Muslims] That means the the rider on the white horse has to be alive now; these days.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the Persian/Iranian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days.[21century] Then Michael, one of the chief princes/leaders, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia/Iran.

Daniel 10:21
but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince/leader.

Daniel 12:1
[ The End Times ] "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven/earth. Michael and his angels/messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels/messengers fought back.

Are you saying all this is happening now??

 

[lecoop]

May I suggest that you study the CONTEXT of the first seal, so you know WHEN?

That knowledge will go a long way to showing who or what is to be represented by this first horse and rider.

Coop

When is now, but who can see it.

Revelation 6
The Seals
1. I watched as the Lamb/Yahshua opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures/beings say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2. I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

The red horse is the Middle East and also later the Far East conflict. [Muslims] That means the the rider on the white horse has to be alive now; these days.

When you make a statement of error, then base more on that error, your errors multiply.
WHO SAID the red horse is the Middle East conflict? And WHY does this mean the rider must be alive today? You simply do not understand the context or the intent of the author. That was in 95 AD. Through visions, God brought John from THEN (95 AD) to NOW and into our future. You are trying to SKIP the then and the next 1900 years!!! The church was sent out THEN, about 33 AD. The next three horses are the devil trying to STOP the church. You are right in ONE respect: ALL of these events MUST center around ISRAEL. Therefore, it is almost laughable when people talk about the US. You are right again, that it will be Muslims. I am convinced that the beast will rise to power with the religion of Islam. I am further convinced that He will make ISlam the religon of his entire Empire.
The Red horse represented ALL wars in Europe and African since 33 AD. (Remember the '1/4th of the earth?)

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the Persian/Iranian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days.[21century] Then Michael, one of the chief princes/leaders, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia/Iran.

Daniel 10:21
but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince/leader.

These events happened IN Daniel's time.

[quote:1j1hfrl6]Daniel 12:1
[ The End Times ] "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

This event starts at the exact midpoint. Michael arises to KICK Satan out of the heavens.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven/earth. Michael and his angels/messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels/messengers fought back.

Are you saying all this is happening now??[/quote:1j1hfrl6]

No, this war begins at the midpoint of the week. You jumped from the second seal to something different.

The first five seals were broken in the first century. This is what the scriptures tell us. We are now WAITING on the 6th seal, which is the SIGN that the day of the Lord is about to begin. It begins with the 7th seal, which opens the trumpet judgments. The abomination does not come until the 7th trumpet.

Coop

 

[JudaicChristian]

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven/earth. Michael and his angels/messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels/messengers fought back.

Are you saying all this is happening now??

No, this war begins at the midpoint of the week. You jumped from the second seal to something different.

The first five seals were broken in the first century. This is what the scriptures tell us. We are now WAITING on the 6th seal, which is the SIGN that the day of the Lord is about to begin. It begins with the 7th seal, which opens the trumpet judgments. The abomination does not come until the 7th trumpet.

Coop

Are you a Catholic trying to spread disinformation about what the scriptures say? Lets see your historical facts to support what you say.

 

[JudaicChristian]

May I suggest that you study the CONTEXT of the first seal, so you know WHEN?

That knowledge will go a long way to showing who or what is to be represented by this first horse and rider.

Coop

When is now, but who can see it.

Revelation 6
The Seals
1. I watched as the Lamb/Yahshua opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures/beings say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2. I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

The red horse is the Middle East and also later the Far East conflict. [Muslims] That means the the rider on the white horse has to be alive now; these days.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the Persian/Iranian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days.[21century] Then Michael, one of the chief princes/leaders, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia/Iran.

Daniel 10:21
but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince/leader.

Daniel 12:1
[ The End Times ] "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven/earth. Michael and his angels/messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels/messengers fought back.

Are you saying all this is happening now??

The Islamic conflict in the world will not go away until that religion is completely destroyed. How many trillions of dollars do you think it will take before the politicians realize that? The Islamic goal is to weaken the nations financially through terrorism.

 

[JudaicChristian]

How much money has been spent since 1967 combating Islamic terrorist. That and the lives and property damage done in the name of Islam. And I am not talking about America alone, but the entire world.

 

[lecoop]

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven/earth. Michael and his angels/messengers fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels/messengers fought back.

Are you saying all this is happening now??

No, this war begins at the midpoint of the week. You jumped from the second seal to something different.

The first five seals were broken in the first century. This is what the scriptures tell us. We are now WAITING on the 6th seal, which is the SIGN that the day of the Lord is about to begin. It begins with the 7th seal, which opens the trumpet judgments. The abomination does not come until the 7th trumpet.

Coop

Are you a Catholic trying to spread disinformation about what the scriptures say? Lets see your historical facts to support what you say.

HIstorical facts? Look at a brief history of African and Europe. Just in my lifetime, 2nd world war!! Several famines that killed millions in Africa. The plague. The aids in Africa. All these things are a part of history. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th horsemen, working together have certain been busy over the centuries. BUT, they have been limited to one fourth of the earth.

And I am certainly NOT a Catholic.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

How much money has been spent since 1967 combating Islamic terrorist. That and the lives and property damage done in the name of Islam. And I am not talking about America alone, but the entire world.

Hang onto your hat!! After the church is gone, Islam will become the world religion - and deceive billions!! It will not be destroyed until Jesus returns.

Coop

 

[JudaicChristian]

How much money has been spent since 1967 combating Islamic terrorist. That and the lives and property damage done in the name of Islam. And I am not talking about America alone, but the entire world.

Hang onto your hat!! After the church is gone, Islam will become the world religion - and deceive billions!! It will not be destroyed until Jesus returns.

Coop

If Yahshua returns to save the Elect, then how is it that Islam becomes the only world religion? Islam will be destroyed just before the return of Christ. That happens during the [cup/bowl] of wrath of God.

 

[lecoop]

How much money has been spent since 1967 combating Islamic terrorist. That and the lives and property damage done in the name of Islam. And I am not talking about America alone, but the entire world.

Hang onto your hat!! After the church is gone, Islam will become the world religion - and deceive billions!! It will not be destroyed until Jesus returns.

Coop

If Yahshua returns to save the Elect, then how is it that Islam becomes the only world religion? Islam will be destroyed just before the return of Christ. That happens during the [cup/bowl] of wrath of God.

Do you think that the world religion created and propagated by the beast, will be destroyed before the beast Himself will be destroyed? If so, then every human that has the mark must be destroyed before Jesus returns on the white Horse. Do you have scripture?

Coop

 

[JudaicChristian]

Do you think that the world religion created and propagated by the beast, will be destroyed before the beast Himself will be destroyed? If so, then every human that has the mark must be destroyed before Jesus returns on the white Horse. Do you have scripture?

Coop

Finally you ask a good question. Islam and Orthodox Judaism will be destroyed before the second coming. After the two witnesses there will be a false Christian religion with that [beast/nation,] and there will be the true Christians [The Elect.] It is the false Christians, with that false prophet that are destroyed by Christ coming. I will leave it up to everyone here to figure out which one is which. The truth is offencive, and I do not feel like getting kicked off this message board today. Good luck.