THE GOLDEN RULE

[jeremiah1five]

We are to follow Jesus's example.
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phil 2:5-11

12 We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;
13 when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.
1 Cor 4:12-13

Love overcomes the world, it is part of the Kingdom of heaven which does not choose to dominate and defend itself through force. That day will come when Jesus returns and everything is made new.

God bless you

Misapplication of Scripture.

WHY is there in the hand of a fool the purchased price for wisdom seeing he has no heart for it?
That's in Psalms and in the Name of Jesus Christ and with His authority it applies to YOU.
You need to be taught because learning on your own is causing much error in your understanding. Consider this counsel from God. YOU NEED TO BE TAUGHT!

 

[PeterJens]

That's the fault of your ministers to lay hands on people they don't know or to do it in ignorance. Laying on of hands comes as a doctrine, an instruction, a teaching. Only the Five-Fold ministers and elders I find in Scripture have the authority to lay hands on the sheep. And ONLY sheep. But it seems you're in a church that practices error and THAT'S why you haven't heard God speak to you. Let me guess, you've never spoke in tongues, have you? Well, there's a Biblical reason for that, too.

Jesus spoke those words to His apostles in Matthew 28. You weren't there. He wasn't speaking to you. If you take Jesus' command to His apostles "to make disciples" then you are calling yourself an apostle and you would be in error because Jesus spoke specifically to His apostles and you're NOT an apostle. There's too much error in your biblical understanding to be an apostle. You haven't been discipled as taught in Scripture. You've never had to live with your teacher and so you can't call yourself a disciple for you haven't been discipled as taught in Scripture. You haven't spoken in tongues and quite frankly you are a bucking maverick who won't let even the Lord Jesus ride you.
To take a calling Jesus gave to His apostles and make it your own is error and heresy.

You don't know me or my past so you can't judge. You have no wisdom. No knowledge.

But you don't have God's Word in your "heart." You don't even have it in your mind committed to memory.

You don't even know what "In My Name" means.

It's in the Old Testament in the book of holiness called Leviticus. Who's rejecting Scripture? Me? No, it's YOU.

You don't understand the Old Testament and for this reason you don't understand the New Testament.
You are a danger to yourself and to others.

Hi Jeremiah,

Clearly you are a mixture of the New Apostolic Reformation and your own personal theological interpretations. I can respect your perspective though I do not agree with it.

The power of Gods word is it is the thing that brings life to our souls, it is eternal and is our guide to Gods revelation. Once you deviate from this foundation you get the little gods heresy, ignoring the sermon on the mount for believers, to belief that miracles matters more than cleansed hearts, repentance and walking in obedience to Jesus's words.

I understand you totally disagree with my foundations in the Lord, and assume I do not know speaking in tongues and spiritual gifts. I have seen too many believers claiming God spoke to them and they are healed from cancer while actually dying a few weeks later. The reality that Jesus saves us from this world with treasure built in heaven for when He calls us home. Now these believers say it is satan conquering their ministries rather than the Lord saying it is time.

Jesus lays it out simply. Do not walk in His ways, and He literally never knew you. And what do these folk claim is their authority in Christ? Miracles, casting our demons, prophecy. There is no other way than learning Gods heart.

2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:2

My experience of NAR and its theology is destroyed lives and broken relationships. Some claim to be the healers of unequal length legs, like this is a plague that haunts mankind, except it is a classic self deception problem to convince themselves God is actually moving through them. All I can say, God have mercy on their souls

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

Misapplication of Scripture.

WHY is there in the hand of a fool the purchased price for wisdom seeing he has no heart for it?
That's in Psalms and in the Name of Jesus Christ and with His authority it applies to YOU.
You need to be taught because learning on your own is causing much error in your understanding. Consider this counsel from God. YOU NEED TO BE TAUGHT!

I need Jesus to be my teacher. The Lord is clear,

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27

I have met many who suggest we all need a special teacher. But Jesus said,

10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt 23:10-12

Our teacher is Jesus. And His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
I testify that this is 100% true. Letting God straighten, heal and work out our hearts in His love works and literally remolds us. I cannot express how much our lives are driven by our emotional outlooks with Jesus become sinful and destructive, because everything that is good can be turned evil with the wrong focus.

The other sad reality, we stumble into hell convinced we are right, unless we bow the knee, repent and listen to Jesus and the cross.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

Misapplication of Scripture.

WHY is there in the hand of a fool the purchased price for wisdom seeing he has no heart for it?
That's in Psalms and in the Name of Jesus Christ and with His authority it applies to YOU.
You need to be taught because learning on your own is causing much error in your understanding. Consider this counsel from God. YOU NEED TO BE TAUGHT!

Thank you for calling me a fool.

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Cor 1:20-25

The walk of love in Jesus is not complex or hard to find, or needs a special teacher to work its way through. Gods path is learning love, humbleness, mercy, faithfulness, justice, forgiveness, repentance and truth. This is foolishness to the world which includes special teachers who oppose Jesus and His way. In a real spiritual sense the emotional blindness is only lifted when a childs heart is applied and people are cleansed and made whole to start again.

If is no joke that this is the biggest miracle in creation, to turning of one sinner to repentance and faith. But many have found this path, and I rejoice in this. God bless you

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi Jeremiah,
Clearly you are a mixture of the New Apostolic Reformation and your own personal theological interpretations. I can respect your perspective though I do not agree with it.

Nope. There is no mixture. I am solid. I am iron. I am a Biblical Christian. That's the only kind in existence. If one's Christianity is not biblical then it is NOT Christianity. Bottom line.

The power of Gods word is it is the thing that brings life to our souls, it is eternal and is our guide to Gods revelation. Once you deviate from this foundation you get the little gods heresy, ignoring the sermon on the mount for believers, to belief that miracles matters more than cleansed hearts, repentance and walking in obedience to Jesus's words.
I understand you totally disagree with my foundations in the Lord, and assume I do not know speaking in tongues and spiritual gifts. I have seen too many believers claiming God spoke to them and they are healed from cancer while actually dying a few weeks later. The reality that Jesus saves us from this world with treasure built in heaven for when He calls us home. Now these believers say it is satan conquering their ministries rather than the Lord saying it is time.

Until God speaks directly to you then you can't say one way or the other. You don't know your place in the body of Christ. You don't know your calling as servant. You don't know what your spiritual gifts are, or your pounds, or your talent(s). You don't know anything. And until God speaks to you, you have no ministry, no calling, no gifts - nothing.
You're like a ship on the waves with no rudder.

Jesus lays it out simply. Do not walk in His ways, and He literally never knew you. And what do these folk claim is their authority in Christ? Miracles, casting our demons, prophecy. There is no other way than learning Gods heart.
2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:2
My experience of NAR and its theology is destroyed lives and broken relationships. Some claim to be the healers of unequal length legs, like this is a plague that haunts mankind, except it is a classic self deception problem to convince themselves God is actually moving through them. All I can say, God have mercy on their souls
God bless you

God have mercy on your soul, not theirs.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I need Jesus to be my teacher. The Lord is clear,
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:27

But Jesus is NOT your teacher. You haven't heard His voice and having not heard His voice you cannot follow Him.

I have met many who suggest we all need a special teacher. But Jesus said,
10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt 23:10-12

I never said anything about "special" teacher. I am talking about being discipled the way Jesus taught it and that means living with your teacher the same way the twelve lived with Jesus.

Our teacher is Jesus. And His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

But you don't listen. You THINK He's your teacher but He's not, for the error you post is not anything Jesus teaches. But you don't listen.

I testify that this is 100% true. Letting God straighten, heal and work out our hearts in His love works and literally remolds us. I cannot express how much our lives are driven by our emotional outlooks with Jesus become sinful and destructive, because everything that is good can be turned evil with the wrong focus.
The other sad reality, we stumble into hell convinced we are right, unless we bow the knee, repent and listen to Jesus and the cross.
God bless you

I listen to Jesus from His throne, not His cross.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Thank you for calling me a fool.
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Cor 1:20-25

He's right here in front of you.

The walk of love in Jesus is not complex or hard to find, or needs a special teacher to work its way through. Gods path is learning love, humbleness, mercy, faithfulness, justice, forgiveness, repentance and truth. This is foolishness to the world which includes special teachers who oppose Jesus and His way. In a real spiritual sense the emotional blindness is only lifted when a childs heart is applied and people are cleansed and made whole to start again.
If is no joke that this is the biggest miracle in creation, to turning of one sinner to repentance and faith. But many have found this path, and I rejoice in this. God bless you

A disciple is one who has been taught and taught the way Jesus did it and that is to live with your teacher. I can tell you haven't been discipled nor have you submitted yourself to God. You live your Christianity in ignorance. You think you know things, but you don't. You post Scripture not knowing its context and what is being said. It just looks good to you, and YOU THINK it applies when it doesn't. You haven't learned to handle the Word of life.

 

[TahitiRun]

Don't believe me. Believe the Scripture and the command of God to His covenant people.

Of course, the doctrines you espouse, IMO, are not believable. They're based upon a translation of the Hebrew text rather than the Hebrew text itself. And I've demonstrated that to be the case.

The force of God's command to His people is still His command to His covenant people to love their brethren ONLY....

This is where I believe your understanding of the Hebrew text is wrong. In Lev 19:18 the command is to love all human beings (without exception) whether they are within or outside Israel's covenant boundaries. Moses explained the meaning of the Hebrew term "רֵעַ" (in Lev 19:18) a few short breaths later, here:

Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

The Hebrew term "אֵת" translated as "with" (KJV bible) means to be "near" or "nearness" and is used with reference to proximity, not with regards to a shared tribal identity such "brethren" or "brother" that the Hebrew word "עָמִית" is associated with in Lev 19:17.

You are to love "the stranger" as "yourself".

The KJV translation of the Hebrew text in Lev 19:18 simply does not convey this truth to it's reader. Consequently, the results of the translation brings about an unholy dogma that you're advocating for.

That's being a lot presumptuous....

It was in reference to a single king (king James VI of England) who commissioned the revision of the Bishop's bible for the Church of England to use. I used an apostrophe s ('s) to indicate James' possession of the translators duties.

I'm not saying this to be critical of England's king at the time. I suppose he could have spent his efforts on other kingly endeavors. England didn't need another "translation" of God's word (the Hebrew text), they needed to stop living and thinking according to the flesh and to stop acting like tyrants and bullies.

That's a lot presumptuous.

It's really not though. Look at the results of your own understanding of the king's translation. For example, you're here advocating that we are NOT to love others except for those who share a common spiritual identity with us.

And anyone who dares to love a "stranger as themselves" you've equated to committing spiritual fornication and practicing "witchcraft" against God.

This is what you actually believe, correct?

There were only Jacob's descendants in the desert around the Tabernacle. There were no Gentiles who were outside the covenant nearby.

Your response is really not relevant to the meaning of the Hebrew term "רֵעַ".

BTW: I actually enjoy reading your posts. I don't agree with them, that's obvious, but I do find your responses to be entertaining.

OK. Great. It doesn't change anything.

It does though. It changes everything, including your understanding of what the Hebrew text actually says.

Not according to God's command....

I'm using the term "neighbor" according to it's meaning found in the Hebrew text (Lev 19:17-18). Moses tells Israel (in Lev 19:34) what he means by the use of the two different Hebrew terms and Jesus reiterates this understanding in the Good Samaritan story.

There is simply no excuse to translate two different Hebrew words that have two different meanings with a single English word that has one meaning.

I don't fault you for your understanding of the text. I fault the KJV translation that causes you to think like this.

If you'll notice the priest, Levite, and Samaritan were ALL in covenant with God.

Perhaps they were, and perhaps not. Jesus instructed the twelve not to enter into Samaritan cities with the Gospel (Mat 10:5). Which would be rather odd if the Samaritan's were in the same covenant relationship as Israel was. I think Jesus was somewhat ambivalent towards Samaritans in general (Luk 9:51-56). When those of the twelve wanted to call down fire upon the Samaritan cities for their rejection of Christ, Jesus admonished them and said He came to save men's lives, not to destroy them. By Jesus' own testimony, Jesus will save all Samaritans, and without exception.

However, my initial point was that the Priest and Levite were covenant breakers. The lived according to the flesh. They failed to live according to God's command as stated in Lev 19:18, that is: they failed to live according to the spirit of the law. They wanted to live in the flesh of their carnal minds (Rom 8:7), and at enmity with Christ. These are those who not only break covenants but teach others to do likewise, in many ways similar to what you've been advocating for in this thread. They are called least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Mat 5:19).

The Good Samaritan was the only one of the three that "became" a neighbor to the injured man and thereby fulfilled the law of "loving your neighbor as yourself". The Samaritan was the only one to honor the law/covenant wherein all humanity was created "in the image of God" (Gen 1:27), that is: Christ (2Co 4:4), and that all are to be loved, as such, accordingly.

Your observations are in error.

I really don't think so. And your responses have not given me any reason to reconsider my position otherwise.

If you a member of the Church, then you are Christ's Bride. Christ has made His Church betrothed to Him. What's it called when a woman engaged to be married gives her matrimonial love to another man not her husband? It's called adultery. And when a Christian gives holy love to an unholy person that is also adultery.

Everything was created "in Christ" and has been created "for Christ". All are Christ's through creation and by definition are part of the "body of Christ". And this is so for all humanity without exception. The faith OF Christ is what forgives, saves, justifies and sanctifies all people, even unbelievers, and unbelievers of every type and condition. In many ways, it's similar to how an unbelieving man or woman is sanctified by their believing spouse (1Co 7:14), and in like manner Christ sanctifies all in Himself, through His own faith, the faith OF Christ, and He does so even on the unbelievers behalf.

The reason this is true is found within the prepositional phrase "in Him" (a phrase often used by Paul) that uses the Greek term "εν" followed by the pronoun "αυτω" in the dative case. This tells us that those "in" Christ (of which every human being is, including all creation) are also at "rest" in Christ. They're not going anywhere, they're Christ's and for all eternity.

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4.

The term "friendship" does not imply partaking of the world's works, or it's deeds or to be in association therewith. I think we've been down this road before in another thread, somewhere, so I won't belabor the point further.

In any event, we are not to love the world according to the flesh. Nor are we to know any human being according to the flesh (2Co 5:16). But rather we are to know all creation as created in and for Christ and to treat all humanity as such accordingly.

And don't think you're good to go...
Are you?

I believe I am faithful to Christ in that I proclaim His love for His creation. All of His creation. That includes myself, you and anyone else near me.

The truth is that all creation is already IN Christ, all creation was created through and for Christ, and all creation is held together IN Christ and has objectively already been reconciled to Christ. That is the scriptural truth of the matter.

All creation is included IN the body of Christ, wherein Christ IS called the head of "every man" (1Co 11:3), not some men only, as some are prone to think, but rather Christ is the head of "all men" (Greek: παντος ανδρος) wherein all make up the body of Christ, of which Christ is the head, as Paul further shows in Col 1:16-20.

 

[PeterJens]

Nope. There is no mixture. I am solid. I am iron. I am a Biblical Christian. That's the only kind in existence. If one's Christianity is not biblical then it is NOT Christianity. Bottom line.

Until God speaks directly to you then you can't say one way or the other. You don't know your place in the body of Christ. You don't know your calling as servant. You don't know what your spiritual gifts are, or your pounds, or your talent(s). You don't know anything. And until God speaks to you, you have no ministry, no calling, no gifts - nothing.
You're like a ship on the waves with no rudder.

God have mercy on your soul, not theirs.

I see your position. You follow direct revelation from God that guides you irrespective of scripture.
I hold God desires that we know love and through love see our role and gifting.

Clearly God does not speak directly to His people very often, as can be see in scripture. Most of Gods revelation to mankind is their sinful state and their need to repent and walk righteously. If christianity was about a direct conversation with God alone, then there would be no failure or sinful people worthy of judgement.

When I was younger I realised many believers said if only God did this miracle people would then believe. Sadly Jesus did miracles healing 10 lepers but only one came back. It is clear mankind does not understand the Lord or His ways or even the value of loving one another. And this is the problem God came to solve through Jesus. When love captivates our hearts and we melt and open up things change at every level, emotionally, spiritually, eternally.

It is clear this is not your experience or emphasis, which is fine. I am grateful we can clarify our different positions. My life literally has been a search for life and love which I have found in Christ. You desire something very different and feel you have found it. We will stand before the Lord at judgement and He will speak. My reassurance is in the apostles continually saying obeying Jesus is the testimony of faith and the Kingdom and His core message was love.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

But Jesus is NOT your teacher. You haven't heard His voice and having not heard His voice you cannot follow Him.

I never said anything about "special" teacher. I am talking about being discipled the way Jesus taught it and that means living with your teacher the same way the twelve lived with Jesus.

But you don't listen. You THINK He's your teacher but He's not, for the error you post is not anything Jesus teaches. But you don't listen.

I listen to Jesus from His throne, not His cross.

I have not heard His voice? Scripture is His voice. Putting it simply, a written book is simpler than direct audible revelation to each believer. And the problem with direct revelation is there is no interpretation or learning to walk from the heart in love. It is just robotic obedience, which is not the way of the Lord.

What I am posting is scripture and its meaning is straight forward. The two greatest commandments are straight forward. Love God with everything and love your neighbour as yourself.

If you throw these two commandments out, then you are making your own religion. And you are right to say I am not obeying your view of what it means to be a christian. Sadly you condemn me for my listening to God and His word, and say this is not Jesus. That is just heresy and antiChrist behaviour.

The big problem you have is you are not replacing Gods word with anything else, its just a negative, which is useless. Scripture is a self referencing book which gives examples of how God interacts with people and the affect it has on their lives. Meditating on His law and precepts is the key message, and obeying them. Occasionally the Lord anoints and confirms the path His people are walking directly, but this is rare. And the simple reason is His heart for us is to walk in His ways, to be like Him and show His love to all.

You want something else. A friend of mine loves words of knowledge and that is his thing, his statement of authentic spiritual authority. To me it is just self flattery and delusion, because it has no real value and people do not change, it is like a magic trick on a stage, people go ahhh, and thats it. Jesus is about life transformation and discipleship. This is the mission of the church, though the how is often disagreed upon, but most of the church agree its value.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

But Jesus is NOT your teacher. You haven't heard His voice and having not heard His voice you cannot follow Him.

I never said anything about "special" teacher. I am talking about being discipled the way Jesus taught it and that means living with your teacher the same way the twelve lived with Jesus.

But you don't listen. You THINK He's your teacher but He's not, for the error you post is not anything Jesus teaches. But you don't listen.

I listen to Jesus from His throne, not His cross.

Jesus and the cross are central to our walk of humbleness.
The beatitudes expand on this emotional walk along with Paul spelling out the main attitudes and approaches of a mature believer.

I understand 100% if you have shut this out of your heart and life, it means nothing, and soldier Jesus who leads you into a dominating place in life and society is your mission.

There is a chance this militant view of the Lord will come to dominate, with a prophetic leader who will do great wonders and blasphemy against the Lord of all will arise, and those caught up in this, will take his mark to show their loyalty and kill those who stand apart. There is a lot of prophecy about this in the book of revelation, but few imagined a christian form of faith might be its foundation. For centuries believers held the roman catholic church would be such a group.

God bless you

 

[jeremiah1five]

Of course, the doctrines you espouse, IMO, are not believable. They're based upon a translation of the Hebrew text rather than the Hebrew text itself. And I've demonstrated that to be the case.

This is where I believe your understanding of the Hebrew text is wrong. In Lev 19:18 the command is to love all human beings (without exception) whether they are within or outside Israel's covenant boundaries. Moses explained the meaning of the Hebrew term "רֵעַ" (in Lev 19:18) a few short breaths later, here:

Lev 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

The Hebrew term "אֵת" translated as "with" (KJV bible) means to be "near" or "nearness" and is used with reference to proximity, not with regards to a shared tribal identity such "brethren" or "brother" that the Hebrew word "עָמִית" is associated with in Lev 19:17.

You are to love "the stranger" as "yourself".

The KJV translation of the Hebrew text in Lev 19:18 simply does not convey this truth to it's reader. Consequently, the results of the translation brings about an unholy dogma that you're advocating for.

It was in reference to a single king (king James VI of England) who commissioned the revision of the Bishop's bible for the Church of England to use. I used an apostrophe s ('s) to indicate James' possession of the translators duties.

I'm not saying this to be critical of England's king at the time. I suppose he could have spent his efforts on other kingly endeavors. England didn't need another "translation" of God's word (the Hebrew text), they needed to stop living and thinking according to the flesh and to stop acting like tyrants and bullies.

It's really not though. Look at the results of your own understanding of the king's translation. For example, you're here advocating that we are NOT to love others except for those who share a common spiritual identity with us.

And anyone who dares to love a "stranger as themselves" you've equated to committing spiritual fornication and practicing "witchcraft" against God.

This is what you actually believe, correct?

Your response is really not relevant to the meaning of the Hebrew term "רֵעַ".

BTW: I actually enjoy reading your posts. I don't agree with them, that's obvious, but I do find your responses to be entertaining.

It does though. It changes everything, including your understanding of what the Hebrew text actually says.

I'm using the term "neighbor" according to it's meaning found in the Hebrew text (Lev 19:17-18). Moses tells Israel (in Lev 19:34) what he means by the use of the two different Hebrew terms and Jesus reiterates this understanding in the Good Samaritan story.

There is simply no excuse to translate two different Hebrew words that have two different meanings with a single English word that has one meaning.

I don't fault you for your understanding of the text. I fault the KJV translation that causes you to think like this.

Perhaps they were, and perhaps not. Jesus instructed the twelve not to enter into Samaritan cities with the Gospel (Mat 10:5). Which would be rather odd if the Samaritan's were in the same covenant relationship as Israel was. I think Jesus was somewhat ambivalent towards Samaritans in general (Luk 9:51-56). When those of the twelve wanted to call down fire upon the Samaritan cities for their rejection of Christ, Jesus admonished them and said He came to save men's lives, not to destroy them. By Jesus' own testimony, Jesus will save all Samaritans, and without exception.

However, my initial point was that the Priest and Levite were covenant breakers. The lived according to the flesh. They failed to live according to God's command as stated in Lev 19:18, that is: they failed to live according to the spirit of the law. They wanted to live in the flesh of their carnal minds (Rom 8:7), and at enmity with Christ. These are those who not only break covenants but teach others to do likewise, in many ways similar to what you've been advocating for in this thread. They are called least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Mat 5:19).

The Good Samaritan was the only one of the three that "became" a neighbor to the injured man and thereby fulfilled the law of "loving your neighbor as yourself". The Samaritan was the only one to honor the law/covenant wherein all humanity was created "in the image of God" (Gen 1:27), that is: Christ (2Co 4:4), and that all are to be loved, as such, accordingly.

I really don't think so. And your responses have not given me any reason to reconsider my position otherwise.

Everything was created "in Christ" and has been created "for Christ". All are Christ's through creation and by definition are part of the "body of Christ". And this is so for all humanity without exception. The faith OF Christ is what forgives, saves, justifies and sanctifies all people, even unbelievers, and unbelievers of every type and condition. In many ways, it's similar to how an unbelieving man or woman is sanctified by their believing spouse (1Co 7:14), and in like manner Christ sanctifies all in Himself, through His own faith, the faith OF Christ, and He does so even on the unbelievers behalf.

The reason this is true is found within the prepositional phrase "in Him" (a phrase often used by Paul) that uses the Greek term "εν" followed by the pronoun "αυτω" in the dative case. This tells us that those "in" Christ (of which every human being is, including all creation) are also at "rest" in Christ. They're not going anywhere, they're Christ's and for all eternity.

The term "friendship" does not imply partaking of the world's works, or it's deeds or to be in association therewith. I think we've been down this road before in another thread, somewhere, so I won't belabor the point further.

In any event, we are not to love the world according to the flesh. Nor are we to know any human being according to the flesh (2Co 5:16). But rather we are to know all creation as created in and for Christ and to treat all humanity as such accordingly.

I believe I am faithful to Christ in that I proclaim His love for His creation. All of His creation. That includes myself, you and anyone else near me.

The truth is that all creation is already IN Christ, all creation was created through and for Christ, and all creation is held together IN Christ and has objectively already been reconciled to Christ. That is the scriptural truth of the matter.

All creation is included IN the body of Christ, wherein Christ IS called the head of "every man" (1Co 11:3), not some men only, as some are prone to think, but rather Christ is the head of "all men" (Greek: παντος ανδρος) wherein all make up the body of Christ, of which Christ is the head, as Paul further shows in Col 1:16-20.

Nevermind.
If you won't hear God Himself:

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4.

You most definitely will not hear me.

Oh sure, we can love the unsaved as long as we're not friends with them.
[shaking my head]. Unbelievable.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I see your position. You follow direct revelation from God that guides you irrespective of scripture.
I hold God desires that we know love and through love see our role and gifting.

Even love comes with instruction. The command is clear in Leviticus 19:17-18. Your disobedience is on you.

Clearly God does not speak directly to His people very often, as can be see in scripture. Most of Gods revelation to mankind is their sinful state and their need to repent and walk righteously. If christianity was about a direct conversation with God alone, then there would be no failure or sinful people worthy of judgement.

Boy are you mixed up.

When I was younger I realised many believers said if only God did this miracle people would then believe. Sadly Jesus did miracles healing 10 lepers but only one came back. It is clear mankind does not understand the Lord or His ways or even the value of loving one another. And this is the problem God came to solve through Jesus. When love captivates our hearts and we melt and open up things change at every level, emotionally, spiritually, eternally.

You don't understand the Lord and I'm not going to hold your hand and teach you. If you won't listen and obey God then you will not listen to me.

It is clear this is not your experience or emphasis, which is fine. I am grateful we can clarify our different positions. My life literally has been a search for life and love which I have found in Christ. You desire something very different and feel you have found it. We will stand before the Lord at judgement and He will speak. My reassurance is in the apostles continually saying obeying Jesus is the testimony of faith and the Kingdom and His core message was love.
God bless you

Christianity is lived in wisdom and knowledge and obedience.
You strike out three times and you're OUT!

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have not heard His voice? Scripture is His voice. Putting it simply, a written book is simpler than direct audible revelation to each believer. And the problem with direct revelation is there is no interpretation or learning to walk from the heart in love. It is just robotic obedience, which is not the way of the Lord.

What I am posting is scripture and its meaning is straight forward. The two greatest commandments are straight forward. Love God with everything and love your neighbour as yourself.

If you throw these two commandments out, then you are making your own religion. And you are right to say I am not obeying your view of what it means to be a christian. Sadly you condemn me for my listening to God and His word, and say this is not Jesus. That is just heresy and antiChrist behaviour.

The big problem you have is you are not replacing Gods word with anything else, its just a negative, which is useless. Scripture is a self referencing book which gives examples of how God interacts with people and the affect it has on their lives. Meditating on His law and precepts is the key message, and obeying them. Occasionally the Lord anoints and confirms the path His people are walking directly, but this is rare. And the simple reason is His heart for us is to walk in His ways, to be like Him and show His love to all.

You want something else. A friend of mine loves words of knowledge and that is his thing, his statement of authentic spiritual authority. To me it is just self flattery and delusion, because it has no real value and people do not change, it is like a magic trick on a stage, people go ahhh, and thats it. Jesus is about life transformation and discipleship. This is the mission of the church, though the how is often disagreed upon, but most of the church agree its value.

God bless you

No, Scripture is His Words, not His voice.
But you've never heard His voice and if you've never heard His voice then you've never really heard His Words.
Simple.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus and the cross are central to our walk of humbleness.
The beatitudes expand on this emotional walk along with Paul spelling out the main attitudes and approaches of a mature believer.

I understand 100% if you have shut this out of your heart and life, it means nothing, and soldier Jesus who leads you into a dominating place in life and society is your mission.

There is a chance this militant view of the Lord will come to dominate, with a prophetic leader who will do great wonders and blasphemy against the Lord of all will arise, and those caught up in this, will take his mark to show their loyalty and kill those who stand apart. There is a lot of prophecy about this in the book of revelation, but few imagined a christian form of faith might be its foundation. For centuries believers held the roman catholic church would be such a group.

God bless you

Obedience is central to our walk with Christ.

If you love me, you will obey me.
That's the centrality to our walk with Christ and our calling ourselves Christian.
But Christ is not central to your life because you are in disobedience.
The Lord doesn't trust you. Bottom line.

 

[Free]

Don't believe me. Believe the Scripture and the command of God to His covenant people.

The force of God's command to His people is still His command to His covenant people to love their brethren ONLY. And it applies to the Gentile Church as well.

That's being a lot presumptuous. What kings are you talking about and how do you come to that conclusion because it is being greatly presumptuous. You talking King James' translators? There are two Hebrew words and both help to understand the command and instruction.

That's a lot presumptuous.

There were only Jacob's descendants in the desert around the Tabernacle. There were no Gentiles who were outside the covenant nearby.

OK. Great. It doesn't change anything.

Not according to God's command. To take "neighbor" and use it like you do is to do damage to God's Word. That's how a American Gentile would interpret the Word but Judaism is a National religion and everyone who is Hebrew in Israel is in covenant with God and ONLY in this context if someone is next to you in line they can be brethren (of the same tribe) or a 'neighbor" (member of another tribe) as the word is originally used when first spoken by God to His people.

If you'll notice the priest, Levite, and Samaritan were ALL in covenant with God.

Your observations are in error.
If you a member of the Church, then you are Christ's Bride. Christ has made His Church betrothed to Him. What's it called when a woman engaged to be married gives her matrimonial love to another man not her husband? It's called adultery. And when a Christian gives holy love to an unholy person that is also adultery.

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4.

And don't think you're good to go if you love the unsaved as long as you're not his or her friend you're in obedience. God still calls it disobedience and rebellion to His Word. It's practicing witchcraft. See, you can do whatever you want in the body of Christ. You were bought with a price and that price was the death of God's Only Begotten Son. Christ loved the Church and died for her. If Christ were to love anyone who is not His Church, He would be an adulterer. But Christ is faithful to His Bride.
Are you?

Jas 4:1 What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you?
Jas 4:2 You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.
Jas 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.
Jas 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. (ESV)

The context of verse 4 is that of verses 1-3. That is, being a friend of the world is to be like those who cause quarrels and fights, who murder and covet, and who want to get from God so they can spend it on their passions. In other words, it is spiritual adultery.

What James 4 has nothing to do with is whether or not we are to love unbelievers. The entire NT supports the notion that we are to love everyone, including unbelievers. If we do not follow Christ in doing so, we are not following him at all.

 

[Free]

There are numerous violations of the ToS in here. All personal comments must stop. Address the issues only.

 

[GodsGrace]

First, the Scriptures are written to the Jews. We are living on God's timetable and the bringing in of Gentiles is momentary as His focus is concerning the Covenant He made with Abraham and Moses. If you are Gentile then accept this as truth for God still has promises He still needs to fulfill to His Covenant people Israel. When Christ came He came to the Jewish people. He taught the Jewish people out of their Law. And the Revelation prophecies are to and for Israel. Gentiles were brought into the Abrahamic Covenant about four decades after Jesus' ascension. And I'm using the destruction of the third Temple as the beginning for that is when the "ism" of Judaism ended. So, Gentiles are being grafted in with the NATURAL branches and they are identified as Israel.
Jesus didn't send His apostles "to the world" to teach all nations. He sent His apostles INTO the world to herald to the twelve tribes scattered among the nations that their Messiah had come (and gone) and that God has kept His promise to Israel to send THEM THEIR Deliverer. After all, salvation is of the Jews" and He was sent TO the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL. So, know your place.

Hi J, sorry for delay.
If the bringing in of Gentiles is momentary, does this mean God will discard us one day?

Did the Covenant made with Abraham and Moses include the Gentiles?
Was Abraham told he would be the Father of many? Even his name was changed by God.

Everyone on this forum knows that Jesus came to His people.
He said He came for HIS SHEEP, but then He also said that He had sheep in another fold.
John 10:16
15even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Now, that sounds to me like Jesus wanted to create ONE FOLD.
Are you of the opinion that there are TWO FOLD?
One Jewish and One Christian?
Jesus said to be one:
John 17:20
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one;

I agree with you that the Christian believers worshipped with the Jews in the synagogue in the beginning, but by the time of the destruction of the temple in 70AD, they had already been banished from worshipping with the Jews and were worshipping in homes of believers.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the Gentiles being grafted in.
Paul spoke about this in Romans and that book was written in about 57 or 58, as is commonly believed.
The Gentiles were grafted in immediately upon their belief in the Messiah.

I don't know what the difference is between sending the Apostles
TO THE WORLD
and
INTO THE WORLD.
Jesus gave the Apostles the Great Commission to go TO THE WORLD, or INTO THE WORLD to announce His teachings, which in fact He stated plainly.

Matthew 28:19-20
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

The Apostles were to go into all the world...make disciples of all nations, and teach them to observe all that Jesus had taught and commanded.

Salvation is of the Jews only means that God revealed Himself through the Jews for several reasons.

And as to knowing my place....
My place is with Jesus.

Where's yours??

You have odd ideology, if I may say so.

He didn't have to. It was already in effect.

J, I'm speaking of today.
Jesus did not teach that adulterers were to be stoned to death,
which is why Christians do not adhere to this practice.

I'm guessing you're talking about the prodigal son?

No. I'm not speaking of the Prodigal Son.
Which of the two was taken to the limit of town and put to death??
Neither one.

I'm speaking of
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18“If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them,
19then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his hometown.
20“They shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.’
21“Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel will hear of it and fear.

No, He didn't. Not exactly. But because of the hardness of their hearts, He allowed Moses to give that bill of divorcement. Remember, we're talking about a Hebrew culture that is very different then our American culture. You can't interpret the Scripture using western free world customs and culture. It has to be understood through Jewish eyes and Jewish mind.

Gosh. I'll try to remember this.
But Jesus DID CORRECT what Moses had taught.
And this was my point, which I don't think you understood.

I suppose then I don't have to not have other gods before me and don't have to worry about using God's name in vain anymore.
Of course, you're wrong. The Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. It is HE whom God promised to put in our inward parts to lead and guide us from within as opposed to His Law on stone leading and guiding His people from without.
Learn to interpret the Scripture in the context in which it is given and that is a Hebrew/Jewish culture and society. When you interpret it like a Gentile with Gentile norms and cultural behaviors you'll end up with error.

Gosh. I'll try to remember this!
So you believe none of the Mosaic Laws have gone to the wayside?
Is Deuteronomy 21 still in effect?
Any kid been stoned lately?

The Ceremonial Laws are no longer in effect.
The Civil Laws are no longer in effect.

You mentioned 2 Moral Laws.
You should know that they are still in effect and always will be.


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[GodsGrace]

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jeremiah1five

The original command was given to the twelve tribes in the desert that God situated around the Tabernacle. In context the "neighbor" was a member of another tribe living next to the tribe that was supposed to love them. There were no non-covenant Gentiles anywhere nearby as they mostly had been destroyed by God to make room for over four million Jews that came out of bondage in Egypt. In Matthew Jesus is teaching His Jewish brethren to their original commandment to love their fellow covenant brethren and neighbor. Jesus didn't change the Law He upheld it. And in upholding the Law in Leviticus 19:17-19 Jesus is commanding covenant brethren and neighbors of twelve tribes to love covenant brethren and neighbors of twelve tribes. This is commanded by God. But Christians commit adultery against God when they love their unsaved neighbor in the apartment complex where they live or down the street or next door. God never commanded His covenant people to love non-covenant unsaved people. He doesn't even want His people to mingle with the non-covenant Gentiles and learn their ways. When they did that they ended up worshiping idols and marrying idol-worshipers and this brought God's anger and judgment. Do you think God is going to excuse when His covenant Gentile people love the worldly, unsaved people? God still commands His people to not love the worldly, unsaved people nor to be friends with them.
God commands His people - Jew and Gentile believers to not love the world nor be friends with them and He is speaking about PEOPLE:

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? James 4:3–5.

When Christians do this God considers it ADULTERY. He calls the believers that do this sin adulterers and adulteresses. Harsh words from your Lord and Savior. So consider yourself warned.


Dogs to the Jew is a non-covenant, Gentile. God ordered His people to stay away from non-covenant unsaved sinful unbelievers for their sin will rub off on you and God is a jealous God so why tempt Him in this sin? And it is a sin. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Do you understand this?

Did God personally give you such a ministry to do this (Acts 13:1-4) because if He didn't (and I'm guessing He didn't) then you are in disobedience. Let those so called to this ministry do what God has called them to do. As for you, keep praying, mind your own business, live peaceably with all 'men' as much as possible and be a living epistle to be read of 'men.' And always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you with fear and trembling. And if they are not asking then say nothing. God doesn't need your help to save someone or get a message to them. Salvation is of the LORD, Jonah said. So, get out of the way and let God handle His own business. Because when you try to tell someone about Jesus whose heart and mind God has not prepared you PUSH THEM AWAY!

Paul wrote to Timothy. It was a personal letter to Timothy. That was an instruction to Timothy. Timothy had such a calling and Paul was there when the Spirit made known His will for Timothy. Paul was Timothy's spiritual father. And to try and make it your own is error. Paul wasn't writing that to YOU.

Two groups in a spiritual meaning. Because Jewish culture and American culture the two are very far apart. And the making two into one is still yet future when Christ returns and everything is said and done. As a Gentile you're going to have your mind blown when you realize you got to live as a Jew, a Gentile grafted in among the Natural branches and those branches are Jewish. The reason why I say this is because God's Word to His Chosen people Israel is FOREVER! Not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law till all is fulfilled. And there are many promises still to fulfill AFTER Christ returns. So, learn Hebrew.

Truth does that in a den of lies.

If your name was in the HOLY book of life of the lamb slain God never saw you as a dog or unholy. He always saw you the way He thought about you when He first thought about you. Holy, saved, righteous, a little disobedient, but as a sheep.


Nope. Not me.
And there are two perspectives in Scripture to consider. The perspective of God who always saw us as holy even when we were not.
And the perspective of man in which I am a sinner saved by the grace of God. Remember this.

That's all I'm going to respond to.
If you wish a response to something I ignored, please post it separately.
Your post is much too long and has too much for me to address.

 

[PeterJens]

No, Scripture is His Words, not His voice.
But you've never heard His voice and if you've never heard His voice then you've never really heard His Words.
Simple.

I am interested. You say you have heard Gods voice. How was this?
In your view when witnessing to unbelievers is your gospel unless you hear Gods voice you are not a believer?
I am interested in this idea. The apostles set the falling of the Holy Spirit on gentiles as indication of their repentance and coming to faith. They did not ask each one, did you hear Gods voice?

Seriously I have never heard this idea before from anyone. A common testimony is a conviction of sin and a desire to repent and accept forgiveness through Jesus through the cross.

On your idea of becoming a christian almost all believers I know are not believers.
But there is nothing in scripture which talks about hearing Gods voice, rather believing in Jesus and His sacrifice for our sins and walking in faith in His commandments.

As you are presenting this as a dividing point between those in the Kingdom and those not, this is a serious and very judgemental position. I have seen and met and worked with many believers but never with your proposition. So I suggest you are a believer of one. Now if Jesus started His church with the apostles, and the church has grown since then, it cannot be on this new belief system. It makes me laugh putting it like this, because without scriptural and historical foundation, you have nothing.

God bless you