THE GOLDEN RULE

[JLB]

Eye for eye. Or no eye for no eye. It's not hard to understand, JLB.

Jesus never taught us an eye for an eye.

Let me know when you find the New Testament scripture that says we are to return evil for evil.

See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
1 Thessalonians 5:15




JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

Since Jesus is God and He lived, HE is the living Word.
The bible is the written word of God.
We worship God, not the bible, as some do.

When Jesus sent His Apostles to teach all nations, He meant what HE taught in the years He was with the Apostles.

First, the Scriptures are written to the Jews. We are living on God's timetable and the bringing in of Gentiles is momentary as His focus is concerning the Covenant He made with Abraham and Moses. If you are Gentile then accept this as truth for God still has promises He still needs to fulfill to His Covenant people Israel. When Christ came He came to the Jewish people. He taught the Jewish people out of their Law. And the Revelation prophecies are to and for Israel. Gentiles were brought into the Abrahamic Covenant about four decades after Jesus' ascension. And I'm using the destruction of the third Temple as the beginning for that is when the "ism" of Judaism ended. So, Gentiles are being grafted in with the NATURAL branches and they are identified as Israel.
Jesus didn't send His apostles "to the world" to teach all nations. He sent His apostles INTO the world to herald to the twelve tribes scattered among the nations that their Messiah had come (and gone) and that God has kept His promise to Israel to send THEM THEIR Deliverer. After all, salvation is of the Jews" and He was sent TO the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL. So, know your place.

He did not teach that adulterers were to be stoned to death.

He didn't have to. It was already in effect.

He did not teach that a disobedient son was to be brought to the edge of the village and killed.

I'm guessing you're talking about the prodigal son?

He did not teach that we're to give a certificate of divorce to our spouse.

No, He didn't. Not exactly. But because of the hardness of their hearts, He allowed Moses to give that bill of divorcement. Remember, we're talking about a Hebrew culture that is very different then our American culture. You can't interpret the Scripture using western free world customs and culture. It has to be understood through Jewish eyes and Jewish mind.

Many of the Laws of Moses went by the wayside and were no longer valid.

I suppose then I don't have to not have other gods before me and don't have to worry about using God's name in vain anymore.
Of course, you're wrong. The Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. It is HE whom God promised to put in our inward parts to lead and guide us from within as opposed to His Law on stone leading and guiding His people from without.
Learn to interpret the Scripture in the context in which it is given and that is a Hebrew/Jewish culture and society. When you interpret it like a Gentile with Gentile norms and cultural behaviors you'll end up with error.

Interesting concept.
Jesus said that we're to love our neighbor.
Who is our neighbor? Only other Christians?
No. Everyone is our neighbor.
Matthew 22:37-39
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’
38“This is the great and foremost commandment.
39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’

The original command was given to the twelve tribes in the desert that God situated around the Tabernacle. In context the "neighbor" was a member of another tribe living next to the tribe that was supposed to love them. There were no non-covenant Gentiles anywhere nearby as they mostly had been destroyed by God to make room for over four million Jews that came out of bondage in Egypt. In Matthew Jesus is teaching His Jewish brethren to their original commandment to love their fellow covenant brethren and neighbor. Jesus didn't change the Law He upheld it. And in upholding the Law in Leviticus 19:17-19 Jesus is commanding covenant brethren and neighbors of twelve tribes to love covenant brethren and neighbors of twelve tribes. This is commanded by God. But Christians commit adultery against God when they love their unsaved neighbor in the apartment complex where they live or down the street or next door. God never commanded His covenant people to love non-covenant unsaved people. He doesn't even want His people to mingle with the non-covenant Gentiles and learn their ways. When they did that they ended up worshiping idols and marrying idol-worshipers and this brought God's anger and judgment. Do you think God is going to excuse when His covenant Gentile people love the worldly, unsaved people? God still commands His people to not love the worldly, unsaved people nor to be friends with them.
God commands His people - Jew and Gentile believers to not love the world nor be friends with them and He is speaking about PEOPLE:

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? James 4:3–5.

When Christians do this God considers it ADULTERY. He calls the believers that do this sin adulterers and adulteresses. Harsh words from your Lord and Savior. So consider yourself warned.

Jesus said we shouldn't throw pearls to the dogs.
Or give what is holy to dogs.
Matthew 7:6
6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
We are not to participate with those that blaspheme God and have no respect for Him.
They can do us harm.

Dogs to the Jew is a non-covenant, Gentile. God ordered His people to stay away from non-covenant unsaved sinful unbelievers for their sin will rub off on you and God is a jealous God so why tempt Him in this sin? And it is a sin. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Do you understand this?

However, He does expect us to spread His message when the other person is willing to listen.

Did God personally give you such a ministry to do this (Acts 13:1-4) because if He didn't (and I'm guessing He didn't) then you are in disobedience. Let those so called to this ministry do what God has called them to do. As for you, keep praying, mind your own business, live peaceably with all 'men' as much as possible and be a living epistle to be read of 'men.' And always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you with fear and trembling. And if they are not asking then say nothing. God doesn't need your help to save someone or get a message to them. Salvation is of the LORD, Jonah said. So, get out of the way and let God handle His own business. Because when you try to tell someone about Jesus whose heart and mind God has not prepared you PUSH THEM AWAY!

2 Timothy 4:2
2Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

Paul wrote to Timothy. It was a personal letter to Timothy. That was an instruction to Timothy. Timothy had such a calling and Paul was there when the Spirit made known His will for Timothy. Paul was Timothy's spiritual father. And to try and make it your own is error. Paul wasn't writing that to YOU.

Are you Jewish or a Christian trying to live in OT times?
Did Jesus not knock down the wall between the Jews and the Gentiles?

Two groups in a spiritual meaning. Because Jewish culture and American culture the two are very far apart. And the making two into one is still yet future when Christ returns and everything is said and done. As a Gentile you're going to have your mind blown when you realize you got to live as a Jew, a Gentile grafted in among the Natural branches and those branches are Jewish. The reason why I say this is because God's Word to His Chosen people Israel is FOREVER! Not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law till all is fulfilled. And there are many promises still to fulfill AFTER Christ returns. So, learn Hebrew.

Your belief system causes much conflict as shown above.

Truth does that in a den of lies.

If God does not give to dogs what is holy...how did you and I ever become saved?

If your name was in the HOLY book of life of the lamb slain God never saw you as a dog or unholy. He always saw you the way He thought about you when He first thought about you. Holy, saved, righteous, a little disobedient, but as a sheep.

As you surely know, we were both dogs at one time.

Nope. Not me.
And there are two perspectives in Scripture to consider. The perspective of God who always saw us as holy even when we were not.
And the perspective of man in which I am a sinner saved by the grace of God. Remember this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus never taught us an eye for an eye.

Of course, He did when He said, whatsoever you want men to do to you, do also to them. The Golden Rule.

Let me know when you find the New Testament scripture that says we are to return evil for evil.

So, you going to lie back and let someone who wants to kill you or injure you and do nothing? What happen to good always overcomes evil, or I am more than a conqueror?

See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
1 Thessalonians 5:15
JLB

15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 1 Th 5:15.

God's Word is good. Especially when we follow eye for eye and strike for strike.
I like Ronald Reagans' "Peace through strength" mantra.
And George Washington's 'the way to preserve peace is to always be ready for war.'
Letting the bully know you're going to hit back if he dares confront you keeps him at bay and peace is preserved.
Wimp.

 

[PeterJens]

The point should be is that we are supposed to be one with Him and in our salvation we are. Kinda. Because one thing that divides us is the flesh we live in today. It is contrary to the Spirit. Our worldliness is contrary to the Father, too.
The thing you said about us being "ambassadors." Unless Jesus has spoken directly to you in prophecy through the Holy Spirit (Acts 13:1-4) you are not an ambassador. Paul is speaking about him and Barnabas. THEY were called to that ministry, and THEY are the ambassadors. Remember, it's a letter/epistle. And he sometimes 'speaks' in the first person as he did in 2 Cor. 5.
Just a word to help.

Thank you for your perspective.
You raise an interesting point - scripturally how are we Christs ambassadors?
In a real sense we are the example of Gods work in the world, if we claim to be filled by the Holy Spirit and following Jesus. Jesus is our example to follow, to aim at perfection, to seek to know love following through us to others.
Jesus talks about our good works being a light to the world.

Another sense of being an ambassador is speaking on issues which come from the central authority. Ambassadors mainly are a means of protecting the people in their responsibility, supporting and helping them. They also answer questions as to protocols and means of achieving objectives etc. In a real sense believers fulfil all these roles.

Once baptised with the Holy Spirit we are Gods word to the world. So all believers are representatives of Christs work in the world so ambassadors. What is unclear is Jesus's statement,

18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
Matt 18:18-20

We have real spiritual authority over demons and evil spirits, and agreeing about anything the Father will do it.
There is a real intimacy with Jesus that we find hard to fathom, but it is agreeing that He is with us all the time.

It is interesting that those who would like to dictate to others want a mantle of authority specially given, "I am an apostle" "I am a prophet" and "I am Gods anointed" yet are happy to preach heresy and blasphemy, yet say believers have no right to question these very statuses and statements which often are clearly sinful.

So I am an ambassador of Christs work in the world like all my brothers and sisters in Christ. We carry the light to share and the power to point to Jesus and talk about its author.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

First, the Scriptures are written to the Jews. We are living on God's timetable and the bringing in of Gentiles is momentary as His focus is concerning the Covenant He made with Abraham and Moses. If you are Gentile then accept this as truth for God still has promises He still needs to fulfill to His Covenant people Israel. When Christ came He came to the Jewish people. He taught the Jewish people out of their Law. And the Revelation prophecies are to and for Israel. Gentiles were brought into the Abrahamic Covenant about four decades after Jesus' ascension. And I'm using the destruction of the third Temple as the beginning for that is when the "ism" of Judaism ended. So, Gentiles are being grafted in with the NATURAL branches and they are identified as Israel.
Jesus didn't send His apostles "to the world" to teach all nations. He sent His apostles INTO the world to herald to the twelve tribes scattered among the nations that their Messiah had come (and gone) and that God has kept His promise to Israel to send THEM THEIR Deliverer. After all, salvation is of the Jews" and He was sent TO the lost sheep of the House of ISRAEL. So, know your place.

I do not like boxes particularly but they help. You are a dispensationalist, who believes the Jews have still a fulfilment separate from gentile believers. My problem with this approach is Paul says we were grafted into the vine, the people of God, and the vine is now the church, because Jesus was the fulfilment of Israel and the temple and the law.

Jesus went to Israel because He fulfils Israel and its message to the world. And that fulfilment is the church, the Holy Spirit living in His people. Jesus was interesting about prophecy, when He said John the Baptist was Elijah's return, if you wanted to believe that. So understanding fulfilment of prophecy is not that clear cut.

The mountain of transfiguration, where Moses and Elijah appear and talk with Jesus, is the prophets and the law acknowledging Jesus is its fulfilment and in a sense its end. Jesus is at one level just a man dying on a cross in part of the empire, showing God loves the world, or the most significant outworking of the sinfulness of man and all their excuses meeting the humble, loving, creator who built everything saying you can find me, painting this picture over thousands of years, turning a nation of stubborn people into a people who recognised the law to its smallest details in the Pharisees which had never happened before. Israel was a dream, almost extinguished time and again, but God kept the thread alive.

It is hard to think even in Jesus's time Baal worship still existed with the sacrifice of children.
Mankind is unbelievably selfish and cruel but God planned a way of working into history a better story.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

The point should be is that we are supposed to be one with Him and in our salvation we are. Kinda. Because one thing that divides us is the flesh we live in today. It is contrary to the Spirit. Our worldliness is contrary to the Father, too.
The thing you said about us being "ambassadors." Unless Jesus has spoken directly to you in prophecy through the Holy Spirit (Acts 13:1-4) you are not an ambassador. Paul is speaking about him and Barnabas. THEY were called to that ministry, and THEY are the ambassadors. Remember, it's a letter/epistle. And he sometimes 'speaks' in the first person as he did in 2 Cor. 5.
Just a word to help.

"supposed to be one with Him"

It is very easy to devalue oneself and other believers. Jesus's justice, honesty and truth is not hard to take on board unless lying, cheating, greed, lust, envy, jealousy, anger, unforgiveness, pride posses ones heart. I have heard the phrase "I am not perfect" as an excuse, rather than learning how to repent, change ones approach and feelings and come humbly before Jesus and the cross.

Paul was very humble. He basically said I rely on my conscience to convict me, but until I meet the Lord I do not know, because He is the judge, and He knows, not me. Paul though was prepared to say his life was an example of following Jesus, so following Pauls example was the same as following Jesus's example, which is quite an equivalence.

But this is our calling, to be one with Jesus in everything. As with all things in the Lord it is a process rather than arriving and we each get different issues to work on as we walk. Pauls directs our attitudes of the heart,

12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Col 3:12-14

If one is serious in following Jesus these words should be like honey dripping from the comb, food for our souls. If it is a jolt or something we hate, we need to ask why and how Jesus can help us change. In all seriousness this is the difference between being the people of God and being sinners doomed to judgement.

As sinners we are blind to the fruit our dark hearts posses just spread disease and destruction, while a cleansed redeemed heart is literally light in a dark place.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

Of course, He did when He said, whatsoever you want men to do to you, do also to them. The Golden Rule.

So, you going to lie back and let someone who wants to kill you or injure you and do nothing? What happen to good always overcomes evil, or I am more than a conqueror?

15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 1 Th 5:15.

God's Word is good. Especially when we follow eye for eye and strike for strike.
I like Ronald Reagans' "Peace through strength" mantra.
And George Washington's 'the way to preserve peace is to always be ready for war.'
Letting the bully know you're going to hit back if he dares confront you keeps him at bay and peace is preserved.
Wimp.

Wimp

You remind me of an ex-marine who trusted in his gun 2 seconds away from killing someone wherever he went rather than in Christ's love and control over his path. He felt his flesh was sinful but his spirit perfect, so his evil behaviour was going to die at the resurrection and his spirit rise with Christ.

When his body dies and he is held accountable, there is no perfect spirit in which he dwells, but his soul will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

Justice at judicial level is justice impartially applied with prisons etc. but as believers we act from the heart and hold a lose grip on things of this world, and have our treasure in heaven. Sinners lust after this world and status, and will die when it falls, with nothing left but weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Either we walk in the way of the Kingdom of God, or we are of this world.

God bless you

 

[jeremiah1five]

Thank you for your perspective.
You raise an interesting point - scripturally how are we Christs ambassadors?

Christ is Head of the Body, do you agree?
And as Head He determines who is placed in the Body of Christ and WHERE, do you agree?
Unless God has told you personally that you are an ambassador then you are NOT an ambassador. I mean, we don't get to pick and choose our calling and where we want to serve, do you agree? If you agree, and if your theology is sound then you are NOT an ambassador.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 1 Cor. 12:24.

In a real sense we are the example of Gods work in the world, if we claim to be filled by the Holy Spirit and following Jesus. Jesus is our example to follow, to aim at perfection, to seek to know love following through us to others.
Jesus talks about our good works being a light to the world.

No, Israel is the light of the world.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved of Israel:
I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
Is 49:6.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Is 42:6.

Remember, Gentile believers are grafted in with the NATURAL branches which is Israel. They are the Olive Tree in God's Garden.

Another sense of being an ambassador is speaking on issues which come from the central authority. Ambassadors mainly are a means of protecting the people in their responsibility, supporting and helping them. They also answer questions as to protocols and means of achieving objectives etc. In a real sense believers fulfil all these roles.

BUT ONLY IF you were an ambassador. Don't act out a ministry you were not called to do for the Lord. What this does is prevent you from being used of God in the function HE CHOOSES for you and to act out a ministry you have not been called to by the Lord injures the body of Christ. Stop living a lie. God can't use you if you live a lie as you are doing and believe.

Once baptised with the Holy Spirit we are Gods word to the world. So all believers are representatives of Christs work in the world so ambassadors. What is unclear is Jesus's statement,

No, we are God's representatives to God. He called us. We are responsible to God not man.

We have real spiritual authority over demons and evil spirits, and agreeing about anything the Father will do it.

Whatever spiritual authority you think you have think again. When God called the twelve apostles in Matthew 10 and Luke 6 HE gave THEM - not you - the spiritual and natural authority to do what He commanded THEM in these chapters. If, when, and unless God calls you to a ministry you should learn to do your own work in whatever vocation you are in and leave the functions of the Body of Christ to Christ.

There is a real intimacy with Jesus that we find hard to fathom, but it is agreeing that He is with us all the time.
It is interesting that those who would like to dictate to others want a mantle of authority specially given, "I am an apostle" "I am a prophet" and "I am Gods anointed" yet are happy to preach heresy and blasphemy, yet say believers have no right to question these very statuses and statements which often are clearly sinful.

You do that when you say, "I am an ambassador!" and God has not called you to be any ambassador. Paul and Barnabas, not you, THEY were ambassadors (Acts 13:1-4.)

So I am an ambassador of Christs work in the world like all my brothers and sisters in Christ. We carry the light to share and the power to point to Jesus and talk about its author.
God bless you

Tell me, are you REALLY an ambassador?

 

[jeremiah1five]

I do not like boxes particularly but they help. You are a dispensationalist, who believes the Jews have still a fulfilment separate from gentile believers.

I'm not a dispensationalist.
I am a Biblical Christian. And I believe the Bible as written. I don't add to it nor do I take anything away from it.
The WHOLE of Scripture, both Old and New Testaments were written by a Hebrew or Jewish believer in Covenant with God and ALL their writings were TO and FOR Israel. Jesus was the promised Redeemer whom God said would come "from among your brethren" and we understand this now that Jesus Christ was born into the tribe of Judah. When Jesus came, He came TO and FOR Israel. He taught TO and FOR Israel. And Israel is the true Bride of Christ.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:24.

My problem with this approach is Paul says we were grafted into the vine, the people of God, and the vine is now the church, because Jesus was the fulfilment of Israel and the temple and the law.

The Church existed in and under the Old Testament. Israel is referred to as "the Great Congregation." They were the Church BEFORE Gentiles were brought in.
You must remember and KNOW as Gentile WHERE you stand before God.

Jesus went to Israel because He fulfils Israel and its message to the world.

Jesus was sent to Israel because God had Promised His Chosen people Israel He would send them a Redeemer and King. Jesus was NOT sent to the world:

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15:24.

And that fulfilment is the church, the Holy Spirit living in His people.

The Bride and Church of God is Israel.

16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders,
Gather the children, and those that suck the breasts:
Let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
Joel 2:16.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev. 21:2.

Now, say it with me several times so that you understand and accept this truth of God:

"Israel is the Bride and Church of God."
"Israel is the Bride and Church of God."
"Israel is the Bride and Church of God."

Now go, and sin no more.

Jesus was interesting about prophecy, when He said John the Baptist was Elijah's return, if you wanted to believe that. So understanding fulfilment of prophecy is not that clear cut.

When the priests sent Jews to John the Baptist and asked him, "Are you Elijah?" John said, "No."
But Jesus when asked if John was Elijah and Jesus said, "Yes, if you will believe it."
So, two contradictory statements. One is telling the truth and one is lying.
Can you explain this?

The mountain of transfiguration, where Moses and Elijah appear and talk with Jesus, is the prophets and the law acknowledging Jesus is its fulfilment and in a sense its end. Jesus is at one level just a man dying on a cross in part of the empire, showing God loves the world, or the most significant outworking of the sinfulness of man and all their excuses meeting the humble, loving, creator who built everything saying you can find me, painting this picture over thousands of years, turning a nation of stubborn people into a people who recognised the law to its smallest details in the Pharisees which had never happened before. Israel was a dream, almost extinguished time and again, but God kept the thread alive.
It is hard to think even in Jesus's time Baal worship still existed with the sacrifice of children.
Mankind is unbelievably selfish and cruel but God planned a way of working into history a better story.
God bless you

God was showing Israel His Church and Bride that Jesus loved His Church and Bride Israel.
You need to 'get' this to bring your beliefs in line with Scripture.

 

[jeremiah1five]

"supposed to be one with Him"

It is very easy to devalue oneself and other believers. Jesus's justice, honesty and truth is not hard to take on board unless lying, cheating, greed, lust, envy, jealousy, anger, unforgiveness, pride posses ones heart. I have heard the phrase "I am not perfect" as an excuse, rather than learning how to repent, change ones approach and feelings and come humbly before Jesus and the cross.

I agree. I said it that way because although we are Promised to be ONE with Him in Trinity (which is where we are destined to ultimately be, in our present existence there are many factors that hinder that oneness with Christ, and you have mentioned a few above. But oneness can also be oneness in goal or destination or purpose. One other thing that hinders oneness with Christ is our doctrine and understanding of Him, our salvation, and the bible. IF we hold to a false interpretation or understanding of God then we are in effect 'worshiping' a false idol of Jesus or God Scripture says is this and that but through our misunderstanding and pre-conceptions of God and Christ or our refusal to allow Scripture inform our beliefs many Christians hold to false understanding even when Scripture is clear on the issue. Let me give you an example: Peter says:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pet. 2:4.

Scripture clearly says that the angels that sinned (and this includes all of them) are 'delivered in chains of darkness' and locked up. The clear conclusion is that fallen angels are NOT loose on the planet today. If this is true (and I believe it is) then many Christians will have to modify their belief-systems to align with this truth. This means terms like "Satan" or "devil," or "demons" will have to be re-evaluated and re-identified because these are undoubtedly terms used to identify Lucifer., an angel that sinned and is told to be locked up. So, who's this "Satan" and "devil" and "demons" that are called up in Scripture in the New Testament? Christians still say and believe that fallen angels that sinned are loose on the planet even though Peter says they are 'locked up.' It is false doctrine like this that hinders not only oneness with Christ but oneness with other believers. Amos said, "no two can walk together (oneness) unless they are agreed." Here's something else to consider:

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 2:42.

In the beginning the early Christians were united in one doctrine: the apostles doctrine. And being in oneness in their collective understanding of Jesus Christ and God they were then able to fellowship, break bread (communion) and their prayers united and unhindered. You follow what I'm saying?

Paul was very humble. He basically said I rely on my conscience to convict me, but until I meet the Lord I do not know, because He is the judge, and He knows, not me. Paul though was prepared to say his life was an example of following Jesus, so following Pauls example was the same as following Jesus's example, which is quite an equivalence.

But learn to keep your eyes on God not man.

But this is our calling, to be one with Jesus in everything. As with all things in the Lord it is a process rather than arriving and we each get different issues to work on as we walk. Pauls directs our attitudes of the heart,

12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Col 3:12-14

If one is serious in following Jesus these words should be like honey dripping from the comb, food for our souls. If it is a jolt or something we hate, we need to ask why and how Jesus can help us change. In all seriousness this is the difference between being the people of God and being sinners doomed to judgement.

Once saved Jesus promised to never leave nor forsake us. Keep this in mind when someone comes along and tries to tell you that you can lose your salvation.

As sinners we are blind to the fruit our dark hearts posses just spread disease and destruction, while a cleansed redeemed heart is literally light in a dark place.
God bless you

That's what Paul said about the daystar arising in our 'hearts.'

 

[jeremiah1five]

Wimp

I meant to say "wump."

You remind me of an ex-marine who trusted in his gun 2 seconds away from killing someone wherever he went rather than in Christ's love and control over his path. He felt his flesh was sinful but his spirit perfect, so his evil behaviour was going to die at the resurrection and his spirit rise with Christ.
When his body dies and he is held accountable, there is no perfect spirit in which he dwells, but his soul will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

Don't forget the two things that are not saved about us is our soul (redeemed and being sanctified daily, but not wholly perfect and without sin), and our bodies still yet to be changed one day in the twinkle-twinkle of His eye.

Justice at judicial level is justice impartially applied with prisons etc.

Oh, no. Justice is always partial. It's the good guards that are good people and have a sense of their own morality and are good. Thanks to the government for hiring these fellas.

but as believers we act from the heart and hold a lose grip on things of this world, and have our treasure in heaven.

We act from our minds. The proverbial 'heart' does not think it only pumps blood. In the OT the whole being of a person was referred to as 'heart' because it was seen the heart was alive and moved in beats. But the function of thinking God ordained for the brain not the heart.

Sinners lust after this world and status, and will die when it falls, with nothing left but weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Either we walk in the way of the Kingdom of God, or we are of this world.
God bless you

Good words.

 

[Tenchi]

Spoken like a true Gentile.

And so the ad hominem begins. This is always the final refuge of a failed argument.

The Social Law also remains but we're not under the Jewish system of government.

Merely asserting this doesn't make it so. I've cited Scripture that explicitly denies what you've said here and until you can show that I've misunderstood it, you're assertion remains unfounded and so without compelling force - like asserting the moon is made of green cheese.

Not one jot or tittle will pass away until ALL is fulfilled. And ALL will be fulfilled when Christ returns.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Law of God. He was perfect, without sin, and so could serve as the once-for-all Atonement for our sin.

Matthew 5:17
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Plainly, explicitly, Jesus said that he had come to earth to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. Did he fail? This is what you are asserting if you say that what he came to fulfill has yet to be fulfilled.

Acts 3:18
18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled.

Hebrews 4:15
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

He still has to end the Times of the Gentiles and turn His full attention towards Israel and save Israel.

Clearly, this was not what Jesus had in mind when he spoke of coming to fulfill (not partly fulfill) the Law and the Prophets. He had come to be the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," and being this sacrificial atonement for our sin he entirely and perfectly accomplished. As a result, we are free from the letter of the Law, standing now in Christ in a "state of grace" (see my last post).

He saved us from the Law only to put the Law right back into our inward parts so that we may be guided by His Spirit who is the Personification of those Laws. He works in our conscience from within where in Moses' time He worked from without.

I see none of this in Scripture; nowhere in the NT do I read that "the Holy Spirit is the personification of the Law of Moses." He is the Third Person of the Trinity, the "Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9), imparting to us the life and power of the Savior.

And the new creation is the new man in Christ. Christ fulfilled the Law and Christ is in us by faith and God sees us as having fulfilled the Law just the same because Christ is in us who fulfilled the Law. This is the grounds of our justification.

Right.

Galatians 3:24-27
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Here is God's Word and Command to the twelve tribes in the desert and situated in encampments determined by God.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother [member of the same tribe] in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour [member of a different tribe living adjacent to another tribe as God placed the tribes around the Tabernacle], and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people [member of any tribe], but thou shalt love thy neighbour [member of a different tribe adjacent to another tribe as God has placed the tribes around the Tabernacle] as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev. 19:17–18.

This doesn't do anything to rebut my point about this passage.

Leviticus 19:16-18
16 'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD.
17 'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.
18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Again, where in this passage does God command the Israelites to love only their own countrymen? It doesn't follow that, if Bobby's mother tells him to "play nice with his sister," that his mother meant he can be rotten and nasty to all other children. But this is just the sort of non sequitur you're making from the passage in Leviticus 19.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

All the Gentiles that lived in the Promised Land were destroyed and the only neighbor to any tribe where God led them was another tribe. So, you have 'brethren' which is a member of your tribe, and you have 'neighbor' which is a member of a different tribe living next to you. God commands Israel to love Israel.

??? No, in fact, much of the Promised Land was never taken by the Israelites. They ended up only occupying about a third of the land God had said was theirs. This is still the case today. And those enemies of Israel that were said in one place in the OT to have been destroyed utterly appear only a few chapters later, giving Israel more grief. I would urge you to read Paul Copan's book "Is God a Moral Monster?" He goes into the matter of "war language" in the Bible that was common to the time of the writing of the OT where extreme hyperbole was the norm in describing the defeat of the enemy - like happens in modern sports commentary where one team, or athlete, "annihilated," or "crushed," or "destroyed" the competition.

Consider, for example, the Anakim that Joshua claimed to have eradicated from the Promised Land (Joshua 11:21-22). He "cut off" the Anakim, "utterly destroyed" their cities, and left none of them remaining in Israel. In Joshua 14:12-15, however, we read that Caleb asked permission to drive the Anakites from the hill country (see also: Joshua 15:13-14) in which he had chosen to settle. Was Joshua's claim a lie? No, just the typical hyperbolic "war language" of the time.

The Amalekites are another example of a pagan nation in the land of Canaan giving problems to Israel for centuries. From Paul Copan's book:

"The Amalekites were relentless in their aim to destroy Israel, and they continued to be a thorn in Israel's side for generations (Judges 3:13, 6:3-5, 7:12, 10:22, etc.)
...the 1 Samuel 15 story appears to be a clear-cut case of complete obliteration. No Amalekites remaining, right? Wrong! In 1 Samuel 27:8, "David and his men went up and raided the Geshurites and Girzites" - and the "utterly destroyed" Amalekites!...they appear again in 1 Samuel 30...the Amalekites were still around during King Hezekiah's time 250 years later (1 Chronicles 4:43)." [pg. 174]

The word for love in your verse does not transliterate to agape. That's another word.
It means [Strong's] or ’aheb, aw-habe’; a primitive root; to have affection for (sexually or otherwise). And this word is different from God's love and is used in Leviticus 19:18.

It's DEFINITLY NOT agape.

That's a different word altogether. The Covenant "love" God has for His Bride (Israel) is "hesed." This is the "agape" that God has for His people.

The word "agape" is a Greek word for "love," not a Hebrew one. It is no surprise, then, that in the Hebrew OT, the word "love" is never rendered "agape."

Leviticus 19:33-34
33 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.
34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

There is simply nothing in this verse, or in the use of aheb generally in the OT, that permits the separation you're asserting here between the word for godly "love" in Greek and the word for "love" in Hebrew. Making such a separation might be convenient for your view, but it ignores the linguistic distinctives of the two languages in regards to the term "love." Consider the following verse:

Deuteronomy 7:12-13
12 “And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers.
13 He will love [aheb] you, bless you, and multiply you...

Here, aheb is used in reference to God's love. (See also: Isaiah 61:8; 43:3-4; Jeremiah 31:3; Hosea 14:4, etc.) In light of the fact that aheb does refer to God's love in the OT, your convenient distinction between agape and aheb collapses.

But this brings me back to the point I made that the Israelites were commanded by God to love the stranger in their midst, contrary to what you've asserted.

The point is that God has commanded His people to love those that are in Covenant with God. This means fellow believers. And Jesus did not change the Law. He upholds it.

Of course, believers are to love their own. But this doesn't mean that they must hate the non-believer. See above.

God has a 'book of life' He's following and alternating between two positions of "I love you today" but if you sin "I will not love you tomorrow."

Some weak, spiritually-juvenile, ignorant believer might read this and descend into an entirely false belief about their salvation and into the fear and legalism that results from it. Beware: You will give an accounting to God for why you promoted such a false teaching!

 

[PeterJens]

I meant to say "wump."

Don't forget the two things that are not saved about us is our soul (redeemed and being sanctified daily, but not wholly perfect and without sin), and our bodies still yet to be changed one day in the twinkle-twinkle of His eye.

Oh, no. Justice is always partial. It's the good guards that are good people and have a sense of their own morality and are good. Thanks to the government for hiring these fellas.

We act from our minds. The proverbial 'heart' does not think it only pumps blood. In the OT the whole being of a person was referred to as 'heart' because it was seen the heart was alive and moved in beats. But the function of thinking God ordained for the brain not the heart.

Good words.

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 10:28

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thes 5:23

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
Rev 6:9

Our souls are who we are which is brought into the Kingdom of God.
If Hell destroys body and soul, and on the resurrection folk believe they are saved in their spirit alone, according to Jesus they have actually been totally destroyed.

This is the problem of solving problems of perfection, grace and love in a non biblical way because it seems to fit. We are saved body and soul,

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

Christ is Head of the Body, do you agree?
And as Head He determines who is placed in the Body of Christ and WHERE, do you agree?
Unless God has told you personally that you are an ambassador then you are NOT an ambassador. I mean, we don't get to pick and choose our calling and where we want to serve, do you agree? If you agree, and if your theology is sound then you are NOT an ambassador.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 1 Cor. 12:24.

No, Israel is the light of the world.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved of Israel:
I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
Is 49:6.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Is 42:6.

Remember, Gentile believers are grafted in with the NATURAL branches which is Israel. They are the Olive Tree in God's Garden.

BUT ONLY IF you were an ambassador. Don't act out a ministry you were not called to do for the Lord. What this does is prevent you from being used of God in the function HE CHOOSES for you and to act out a ministry you have not been called to by the Lord injures the body of Christ. Stop living a lie. God can't use you if you live a lie as you are doing and believe.

No, we are God's representatives to God. He called us. We are responsible to God not man.

Whatever spiritual authority you think you have think again. When God called the twelve apostles in Matthew 10 and Luke 6 HE gave THEM - not you - the spiritual and natural authority to do what He commanded THEM in these chapters. If, when, and unless God calls you to a ministry you should learn to do your own work in whatever vocation you are in and leave the functions of the Body of Christ to Christ.

You do that when you say, "I am an ambassador!" and God has not called you to be any ambassador. Paul and Barnabas, not you, THEY were ambassadors (Acts 13:1-4.)

Tell me, are you REALLY an ambassador?

Christs body on earth is His ambassador of His work in mankind.
There is an interesting divide in emphasis between evangelicals and others strands of faith. Evangelicals take upon themselves to be lights in dark places, to bring Jesus and His grace to the lost places of this world.

But hey sinful broken folk without a message in how they live cannot be this light or
show the work of Christ in believers, because then Jesus means nothing, and being
an ambassador sinks the message 100%. So little wonder ditching being like Jesus
has just left the building for many.

We are called to make disciples, to minister and love and support His body of believers. So the question is not am I an ambassador, but why do you not accept the church is Christs ambassador on earth?

In reverse leaders take upon themselves roles they often aspire to to Lord it over their fellow believers in something called shepherding. Or prophets take upon themselves to state various people are married to the wrong people and should swop partners. Vain narcissistic aggressive leaders take no prisoners, and dress it up
as a ministry when it is just about domination cloaked in religion.

Just look at the criminals preaching give money to them for their jets and lifestyle,
and God will reward you 1,000 times more. What sinful greed that is being preached
and that the followers give to get 1,000 more back. Casino's work the same way.
How is it that worldly wealth is the measure of spiritual success? And such teachers
very often preach to speak against them brings judgement. To speak as they do
will end in a very bad place that they wish they had never invited in.

God bless you

 

[jeremiah1five]

And so the ad hominem begins. This is always the final refuge of a failed argument.

You're Gentile and you look at Messiah as though He was a Gentile idea.
It's all about Israel. Scripture is about Israel Messiah is from a tribe of Israel.
Everything about God's salvation rests on the Jews for salvation is of the Jews.
The Gentiles are grafted in with the Natural branches and the natural branches of the Olive Tree is Israel. The Olive Tree represents Israel. Israel is not grafted into the Gentiles tree.
Jesus came TO and FOR the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Messiah was promised to and FOR Israel. Messiah came to Israel. Messiah taught Israel. The Bride and Church is Israel. The Lord's Prayers is TO and FOR Israel. The Revelation is TO and FOR Israel. The two witnesses of Revelation are of one or two twelve tribes of Israel. Messiah sent His apostles to the twelve tribes scattered across the then-known world to herald to them that their Messiah had come as God Promised (and gone.)
But you and millions of Christians bastardize and Hellenize the Scripture and make Him Gentile. Your understanding of Scripture is from a Gentile mind and Gentile understanding and not as it is supposed to be understood and that is in light of Jewish background. There is NOTHING of God's Covenant with Israel that is Gentile (except the bringing in of Gentiles), but overall everything about God's salvation is Hebrew and Jewish.

Merely asserting this doesn't make it so. I've cited Scripture that explicitly denies what you've said here and until you can show that I've misunderstood it, you're assertion remains unfounded and so without compelling force - like asserting the moon is made of green cheese.
Christ is the fulfillment of the Law of God. He was perfect, without sin, and so could serve as the once-for-all Atonement for our sin.
Matthew 5:17
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Plainly, explicitly, Jesus said that he had come to earth to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. Did he fail? This is what you are asserting if you say that what he came to fulfill has yet to be fulfilled.
Acts 3:18
18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled.
Hebrews 4:15
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Clearly, this was not what Jesus had in mind when he spoke of coming to fulfill (not partly fulfill) the Law and the Prophets. He had come to be the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," and being this sacrificial atonement for our sin he entirely and perfectly accomplished. As a result, we are free from the letter of the Law, standing now in Christ in a "state of grace" (see my last post).

I see none of this in Scripture; nowhere in the NT do I read that "the Holy Spirit is the personification of the Law of Moses." He is the Third Person of the Trinity, the "Spirit of Christ" (Romans 8:9), imparting to us the life and power of the Savior.
Right.
Galatians 3:24-27
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:30
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
2 Corinthians 5:21
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
This doesn't do anything to rebut my point about this passage.
Leviticus 19:16-18
16 'You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD.
17 'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.
18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.
Again, where in this passage does God command the Israelites to love only their own countrymen? It doesn't follow that, if Bobby's mother tells him to "play nice with his sister," that his mother meant he can be rotten and nasty to all other children. But this is just the sort of non sequitur you're making from the passage in Leviticus 19.
Continued below.

 

[jeremiah1five]

??? No, in fact, much of the Promised Land was never taken by the Israelites. They ended up only occupying about a third of the land God had said was theirs. This is still the case today. And those enemies of Israel that were said in one place in the OT to have been destroyed utterly appear only a few chapters later, giving Israel more grief. I would urge you to read Paul Copan's book "Is God a Moral Monster?" He goes into the matter of "war language" in the Bible that was common to the time of the writing of the OT where extreme hyperbole was the norm in describing the defeat of the enemy - like happens in modern sports commentary where one team, or athlete, "annihilated," or "crushed," or "destroyed" the competition.

Consider, for example, the Anakim that Joshua claimed to have eradicated from the Promised Land (Joshua 11:21-22). He "cut off" the Anakim, "utterly destroyed" their cities, and left none of them remaining in Israel. In Joshua 14:12-15, however, we read that Caleb asked permission to drive the Anakites from the hill country (see also: Joshua 15:13-14) in which he had chosen to settle. Was Joshua's claim a lie? No, just the typical hyperbolic "war language" of the time.

The Amalekites are another example of a pagan nation in the land of Canaan giving problems to Israel for centuries. From Paul Copan's book:

"The Amalekites were relentless in their aim to destroy Israel, and they continued to be a thorn in Israel's side for generations (Judges 3:13, 6:3-5, 7:12, 10:22, etc.)
...the 1 Samuel 15 story appears to be a clear-cut case of complete obliteration. No Amalekites remaining, right? Wrong! In 1 Samuel 27:8, "David and his men went up and raided the Geshurites and Girzites" - and the "utterly destroyed" Amalekites!...they appear again in 1 Samuel 30...the Amalekites were still around during King Hezekiah's time 250 years later (1 Chronicles 4:43)." [pg. 174]



The word "agape" is a Greek word for "love," not a Hebrew one. It is no surprise, then, that in the Hebrew OT, the word "love" is never rendered "agape."

Leviticus 19:33-34
33 “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.
34 You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

There is simply nothing in this verse, or in the use of aheb generally in the OT, that permits the separation you're asserting here between the word for godly "love" in Greek and the word for "love" in Hebrew. Making such a separation might be convenient for your view, but it ignores the linguistic distinctives of the two languages in regards to the term "love." Consider the following verse:

Deuteronomy 7:12-13
12 “And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers.
13 He will love [aheb] you, bless you, and multiply you...

Here, aheb is used in reference to God's love. (See also: Isaiah 61:8; 43:3-4; Jeremiah 31:3; Hosea 14:4, etc.) In light of the fact that aheb does refer to God's love in the OT, your convenient distinction between agape and aheb collapses.

But this brings me back to the point I made that the Israelites were commanded by God to love the stranger in their midst, contrary to what you've asserted.



Of course, believers are to love their own. But this doesn't mean that they must hate the non-believer. See above.



Some weak, spiritually-juvenile, ignorant believer might read this and descend into an entirely false belief about their salvation and into the fear and legalism that results from it. Beware: You will give an accounting to God for why you promoted such a false teaching!

You told me you weren't going to respond to my threads.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Christs body on earth is His ambassador of His work in mankind.
There is an interesting divide in emphasis between evangelicals and others strands of faith. Evangelicals take upon themselves to be lights in dark places, to bring Jesus and His grace to the lost places of this world.

Evangelicals are in heresy in teaching everyone is an apostle and is supposed to preach the gospel. They ignore that the Body of Christ has a Head, and that God determines a person's place in the body and their call and their spiritual gifts. They ignore and/or disobey God and do whatever they want in the body of Christ. This is wrong. It is sin. And sadly, unrepentant sin. When Christ returns, He's going to have to subdue the Gentile Church as a whole.

But hey sinful broken folk without a message in how they live cannot be this light or
show the work of Christ in believers, because then Jesus means nothing, and being
an ambassador sinks the message 100%. So little wonder ditching being like Jesus
has just left the building for many.

Did Jesus speak directly to you and tell you that you were an ambassador?

We are called to make disciples, to minister and love and support His body of believers. So the question is not am I an ambassador, but why do you not accept the church is Christs ambassador on earth?

Did Christ tell you directly and personally that you were called to make disciples?

In reverse leaders take upon themselves roles they often aspire to to Lord it over their fellow believers in something called shepherding. Or prophets take upon themselves to state various people are married to the wrong people and should swop partners. Vain narcissistic aggressive leaders take no prisoners, and dress it up
as a ministry when it is just about domination cloaked in religion.

Yup. Those are the ones that are stiff-necked, unrepentant, and disobedient.

Just look at the criminals preaching give money to them for their jets and lifestyle,
and God will reward you 1,000 times more. What sinful greed that is being preached
and that the followers give to get 1,000 more back. Casino's work the same way.
How is it that worldly wealth is the measure of spiritual success? And such teachers
very often preach to speak against them brings judgement. To speak as they do
will end in a very bad place that they wish they had never invited in.
God bless you

There's nothing wrong with wealth. Mary and Joseph were very rich with the gold the Magi brought them and Him. And having wealth and many children was a sign in Jewish culture that the blessings of God rested on you.
Don't only be careful with so-called Christians taking the truth and making it a lie, but also be careful of Christians who take a lie and make it the truth.

 

[Who Me]

And when a Brides-member who is born again, saved, sanctified, washed in the blood gives God's holy love to unsaved unbelievers this ALSO is adultery to God and to fellow Brides-members. It is disobedience and disobedience is still sin.

Please could you clarify your reply.
I cannot see how a Christian loving a non-Christian relates to the pharisees not complying with the letter of the law, regarding adultery.

 

[JLB]

Of course, He did when He said, whatsoever you want men to do to you, do also to them. The Golden Rule.

I dont know where you came up with the idea that Jesus said to return evil for evil, but it wasn’t from the New Testament.

• Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you
• To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also.
• And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back.
• But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return;

• And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.

“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.
“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
Luke 6:27-36





JLB