The Holy Spirit Came As A Witness

[journeymanisnothing]

Side note:
I would like to ask anyone who is resding this conversation to refrain from raising objections.
Iwould appreciate it if people would not hop from Genesis to Revelation with objections to what is being said.
I would like the members here to just consider whether they agree with what is being said or not. If there are any objections, please Hold them in your thoughts for now and we can discuss them afterward.

 

[My Rock]

Look. I methodically and respectfully requested you to simply look at what's being said and give me your opinion about what is being said.
kbmonday,
Would you please not look for supposed inconsistencies. I don't want your opinion on why you disagree. I only want you to tell me if you agree with my opinion on what is being said.
We can disagree later.

Sorry I couldn't sit idly by and not respond.

I appreciate your desire to have a focused and respectful conversation about these important matters. It’s clear that you’re seeking to understand and discuss God’s truth in a meaningful way, which is commendable. In any discussion about scripture and doctrine, it’s essential that we approach each other with a spirit of humility and openness, always seeking to edify one another in love.

In 2 Timothy 2:24-25, Paul advises, "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." This reminds us that our goal should always be to listen carefully and to discuss with patience and gentleness, focusing on what God’s Word is saying to us.

While it’s natural to have different perspectives, we must always seek to find common ground in our shared faith and understanding of God’s Word. It’s important to respectfully engage with each other’s thoughts, even when we may disagree, and to give space for those differences to be expressed. We can continue to discuss and explore these topics together, always with the aim of growing closer to the truth and to each other in Christ.

 

[My Rock]

If you persist with that attitude you are going to be the only one on this thread and will be having a conversation with yourself alone. Sorry to be so harsh my friend just reality.

 

[kbmonday]

Sorry I couldn't sit idly by and not respond.

I appreciate your desire to have a focused and respectful conversation about these important matters. It’s clear that you’re seeking to understand and discuss God’s truth in a meaningful way, which is commendable. In any discussion about scripture and doctrine, it’s essential that we approach each other with a spirit of humility and openness, always seeking to edify one another in love.

In 2 Timothy 2:24-25, Paul advises, "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." This reminds us that our goal should always be to listen carefully and to discuss with patience and gentleness, focusing on what God’s Word is saying to us.

While it’s natural to have different perspectives, we must always seek to find common ground in our shared faith and understanding of God’s Word. It’s important to respectfully engage with each other’s thoughts, even when we may disagree, and to give space for those differences to be expressed. We can continue to discuss and explore these topics together, always with the aim of growing closer to the truth and to each other in Christ.

Precisely. Teaching and reasoning with one another should always be about Jesus, not having our opinion heard or insisting that others engaged in the discussion agree with our opinion. This is pride and the snare of the devil. This is why a novice, or young man, should not be a teacher or church leader.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No, we are not in full agreement then. If my opinion doesn't matter unless I agree with you then this isn't a conversation, it is preaching at me, and I will see myself out.

I never said "Your opinion doesn't matter to me at all. I never said that.

I said your opinion matters to me if I believe it matches my opinion of what Gid said.

I'm only concerned with whether my opinion agrees with your opinion and we if our opinion matches Gods' opinion.

If you are uninterested in my actual opinion, including my earlier aside and parenthetical, then I will not continue the conversation.

You are reading me completely wrong.
I know my own opinion can he wrong.
I know your opinion can be wrong.
I know anyones opinion can be wrong.
I know God can't be wrong.
I know only God can be right.

I don't want my opinions about God to be wrong.
I don't want your opinions about God to be wrong.
I want both of our opinions about God to be right.

I am not fodder to be used to push another person's opinion or narrative, I am my own man.

I'm glad I agree with you and hope everyone reading this in agreement with your statement here.

I aired my grievance, which is that mere belief in what Yeshua said is not the only requirement for entering into the Kingdom of Heaven.
I don't intend to be mean or hurt your feelings, but a one way discussion is not a conversation.

I am agreeing with you. the only One side I want to agree with is Gods' side. And if what I'm saying doesn't agree with what you're saying I might be wrong and I better check that.
So going back to the beginning we both agree that God is good and only wants what's best for us. That's my only point here.

Do you agree with me here or not?

 

[kbmonday]

I never said "Your opinion doesn't matter to me at all. I never said that.

I said your opinion matters to me if I believe it matches my opinion of what Gid said.

I'm only concerned with whether my opinion agrees with your opinion and we if our opinion matches Gods' opinion.

You are reading me completely wrong.
I know my own opinion can he wrong.
I know your opinion can be wrong.
I know anyones opinion can be wrong.
I know God can't be wrong.
I know only God can be right.

I don't want my opinions about God to be wrong.
I don't want your opinions about God to be wrong.
I want both of our opinions about God to be right.

I'm glad I agree with you and hope everyone reading this in agreement with your statement here.

I am agreeing with you. the only One side I want to agree with is Gods' side. And if what I'm saying doesn't agree with what you're saying I might be wrong and I better check that.
So going back to the beginning we both agree that God is good and only wants what's best for us. That's my only point here.

Do you agree with me here or not?

Opinions are not what save us. Being right does not save us. Please be very careful, as the insistence on being right comes from a place of pride. May I ask, are you young and/or unmarried?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

If you persist with that attitude you are going to be the only one on this thread and will be having a conversation with yourself alone. Sorry to be so harsh my friend just reality.

My only attitude so far is that if I disagree with people here I might wrong or they might be wrong.
I understand I'm flawed. I've made many mistakes concerning Gods' word. I I'm not sitting here thinking I'm king journeymen.

Please would you please understand I only want us to agree that the Bible says God is good and only wants the best for us and that truth is declared in the Bible.
I didn't write anything in the Bible. I only want to show that the Bible is true and explains why God made it that way.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Opinions are not what save us.

I know that.

Being right does not save us.

It does when our beliefs (opinions) about God are right.

Please be very careful, as the insistence on being right comes from a place of pride.

Only if the opinion is wrong. I don't want my opinion of God to be right over your opinion of God
I want us both to be right in how God thinks.

May I ask, are you young and/or unmarried?

I'm 67 years old and unmarried.

 

[kbmonday]

Regarding salvation "It does when our beliefs (opinions) about God are right." This is a serious error and is the basis of satanism and gnosticism. Even the fallen angels have the perfect knowledge of God, and yet they will not be saved. Not even just opinion, they actually know. And no, even if an opinion is right the insistence on everyone else agreeing is still from a place of pride. There is a reason that the Bible insists that a teacher be a man married to one woman and dad of well behaved children. A successful marriage is built on compromise and holding the concern for others over the self, listening instead of speaking, and sometimes allowing others (especially w kids) to have the wrong opinion while giving space for them to grow. I hope I didn't offend, and I think we agree so far, but I don't like the direction this conversation headed. May God bless and keep you brother.

 

[electedbyHim]

Sure, I would like to add that the very best way to be sure that your doctrine agrees with God is by comparing it to scripture. I am very wary of following the heart, as the heart is possibly the greatest deceiver. I also don't want to discount brothers and sisters that disagree on a non salvational issue, as we are not judged by how well we understand and know scripture, but by our hearts and actions. But yes, we are in accord.

Agreed.

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can know it?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No, we are not in full agreement then. If my opinion doesn't matter unless I agree with you then this isn't a conversation, it is preaching at me, and I will see myself out.

I never once said your opinion doesn't matter to me at all.
I asked for your opinion because I value it.
What I won't do is value it more than Gods'
opinion.

I hope my opinion matters to you but not as much as Gods opinion.

If you are uninterested in my actual opinion, including my earlier aside and parenthetical, then I will not continue the conversation.

I never said I was uninterested in your opinion including your earlier parenthetical.

You raised an objection before on the Holy Spirit only being sent to give gifts. As far as your opinion on this I wanted to show you what Jesus said the Holy Spirits roll is.
In post #10 I refrrred to what Jesus said about the Holy Spirit,

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, [b{he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:[/b] Jn.16:7-8 KJV

I never disagreed with your opinion that the Holy Spirit was sent here to give gifts.

I Ibelieve the Holy Spirit was sent here by our savior Jesus Christ for other purposes as well. The purposes Jesus Jesus gave in John 16:6-8.

Jesus said he will reprove correct the world concerning sin righteousness and judgment.

I didn't say that. You didn't say that. Jesus said that. That is His opiniin and I wither agree with Him or I don't And if I don't believe what he said then shame on me.

I am not fodder to be used to push another person's opinion or narrative, I am my own man. I aired my grievance, which is that mere belief in what Yeshua said is not the only requirement for entering into the Kingdom of Heaven. I don't intend to be mean or hurt your feelings, but a one way discussion is not a conversation.

I want to know if you would consider that along with giving gifts, the Holy Spirit also corrects mankinds imperfect view of what God considers sin and righteousness and why his judgment is according to his view view, not my view or your view his view.

Do you agree that Jesus said the Holy Spirit gives to believers, but also tell us the truth about sin righteousness and judgment?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Regarding salvation "It does when our beliefs (opinions) about God are right." This is a serious error and is the basis of satanism and gnosticism. Even the fallen angels have the perfect knowledge of God, and yet they will not be saved. Not even just opinion, they actually know. And no, even if an opinion is right the insistence on everyone else agreeing is still from a place of pride. There is a reason that the Bible insists that a teacher be a man married to one woman and dad of well behaved children. A successful marriage is built on compromise and holding the concern for others over the self, listening instead of speaking, and sometimes allowing others (especially w kids) to have the wrong opinion while giving space for them to grow. I hope I didn't offend, and I think we agree so far, but I don't like the direction this conversation headed. May God bless and keep you brother.

That's fine.
do you agree that the Holy Spirit will not only give gifts but will,

prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: Jn.16:8 NIV

I'm looking for your valued opinion whether what Jesus said the Holy Spirit will do is right or wrong?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I'm not trying to be right over you or bash you.
I just want you to know that if you say the Holy Spirit was only sent here to give gifts, but Jesus says he will also show and correct us about what sin righteousness and judgment is all about. Then I'm going with what Jesus said not what you said.

Any if I say something that disagrees with what Jesus said I don't want you to value my opinion over what he said. I want you to believe what he said, not what I said. Do you understand?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

kbminday,
I'm sorry if I'm sounding prideful to you here. I can assure you I'm not. I'm terrified that we might not be agreeing with everything Jesus said. I don't want to be right and be damned.
I don't mind being wrong. If I'm wrong I want to repent of my wrong and saved.
I don't want to argue about that. I don't want to think I'm right but really be leading people to damn nation. <---((I didn't write "damnation" that way. I'm using the speaker to type any typed it that way...damn nation.

Rather ironic that the unsaved I really just one nation that is damned.

 

[kbmonday]

kbminday,
I'm sorry if I'm sounding prideful to you here. I can assure you I'm not. I'm terrified that we might not be agreeing with everything Jesus said. I don't want to be right and be damned.
I don't mind being wrong. If I'm wrong I want to repent of my wrong and saved.
I don't want to argue about that. I don't want to think I'm right but really be leading people to damn nation. <---((I didn't write "damnation" that way. I'm using the speaker to type any typed it that way...damn nation.

Rather ironic that the unsaved I really just one nation that is damned.

It's ok brother, I am not easily offended and I don't feel that you have committed trespass. Even if that were the case you would be forgiven without delay.
I do agree that the Holy Spirit was sent for many purposes and not simply to give the gifts of the Spirit. That said, where is this conversation leading? Are we edifying one another or striving? Knowledge is far less important than a circumcized heart, as knowledge does not bring salvation. In fact, as I said earlier the pursuit of knowledge is the basis of many false religions. Here is truth. Jesus walked amongst us as flesh, Emmanuel - God with us. He came teaching righteousness. He died for the propitiation of our sins. He rose again and ascended to His Father in heaven. The most important thing we should ask ourselves is not 'do we have a correct opinion' but instead do we know Him. Here is what scripture says:
1 John 2:2-8 (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

It's ok brother, I am not easily offended and I don't feel that you have committed trespass. Even if that were the case you would be forgiven without delay.
I do agree that the Holy Spirit was sent for many purposes and not simply to give the gifts of the Spirit. That said, where is this conversation leading? Are we edifying one another or striving? Knowledge is far less important than a circumcized heart, as knowledge does not bring salvation. In fact, as I said earlier the pursuit of knowledge is the basis of many false religions. Here is truth. Jesus walked amongst us as flesh, Emmanuel - God with us. He came teaching righteousness. He died for the propitiation of our sins. He rose again and ascended to His Father in heaven. The most important thing we should ask ourselves is not 'do we have a correct opinion' but instead do we know Him. Here is what scripture says:
1 John 2:2-8 (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

kbmonday,
I I have to go somewhere for a bit. Please know that I do not take lightly any concerns or questions from your post above.
I'm not taking lightly anything that concerns you, because I'm concerned about them too and I believe If we stay focused on the OP all of our concerns will be answered.

 

[electedbyHim]

journeyman as I said before, I am not very educated and can have a hard time understanding what you are writing.

What exactly are you getting at with thus topic?

The Holy Spirit Came As A Witness​

Yes he did come as a witness and many Scriptures to back this up.

I am not seeing what you are getting at from reading this thread.

If you are looking to see if we are like-minded on this topic, yes we are.

Holy Spirit came as a witness, is just a small part of why He resides in His elect people.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

It's ok brother, I am not easily offended and I don't feel that you have committed trespass. Even if that were the case you would be forgiven without delay.

Thank you and I feel the same way. With this in mind we are very near the end of this talk which is going to answer every question you've ever about God's word.

I do agree that the Holy Spirit was sent for many purposes and not simply to give the gifts of the Spirit.

Thank you for giving your own opinion on this. My opinion agrees also. You will soon see how our agreement on this will lead us to all truth.

That said, where is this conversation leading?

To the absolute truth of what Jesus taught.

Are we edifying one another or striving?

Edifying only. Not one but of strife, hostility, disagreement, or bitterness between us. Only the pure peace love and safety God offers us in his word.

Knowledge is far less important than a circumcized heart, as knowledge does not bring salvation. In fact, as I said earlier the pursuit of knowledge is the basis of many false religions. Here is truth. Jesus walked amongst us as flesh, Emmanuel - God with us. He came teaching righteousness. He died for the propitiation of our sins. He rose again and ascended to His Father in heaven. The most important thing we should ask ourselves is not 'do we have a correct opinion' but instead do we know Him. Here is what scripture says:
1 John 2:2-8 (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Please lets stay focused on the main points we both agree on.
Again I would ask not to Bible hop from book and verse to book and verse.
if we can just stay focused for a few moments longer you will see exactly what the point is.

We agree God is good.
We agree he loves all sinners.
We agree he wants to save us.
We agree Jesus came to save us from our sins.
We agree he rose and ascended to heaven and sent his Holy Spirit to comfort us to give us gifts and to lead us into the true .
knowledge of God.

This is point #1.

(Please know that the OP here is exactly as it was in the other thread and everything I'm saying to you now I said over there. In that other thread I believe I was misunderstood because I was so excited by what I saw I blurted everything out too fast at one time. in this thread we are taking our time. We're looking more closely and agreeing together.
We have agreed on 1. there are only two more points and I believe we will have no trouble agreeing on either of them.
----------
Here is Point #2

What the Bible says:
He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. Jn.3:33 KJV
-----------

What I believe the Bible says,

A "seal" was used to hide the contents of a document. It could be legal, but once sealed it was the speakers final word.
In this case the final word was "God is true."
---------
I want to know if if you agree with my assessment of John 3:33.

I ask your own opinion. I don't want another theologians opinion. As a competent Bible student I'm asking only for your opinion.

Do wee agree?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

journeyman as I said before, I am not very educated and can have a hard time understanding what you are writing.

What exactly are you getting at with thus topic?

The Holy Spirit Came As A Witness​

Yes he did come as a witness and many Scriptures to back this up.

I am not seeing what you are getting at from reading this thread.

If you are looking to see if we are like-minded on this topic, yes we are.

Holy Spirit came as a witness, is just a small part of why He resides in His elect people.

electedbyhim
We seem to be agrreeing up till now. Please read only the rest of the posts madr in this thread and if you agree with point 2, ooint 3 will become so obvious you will be confident that we all believe what is right about everything Jesus taught. You will be confident that everything in scripture is true and you will know it beyond doubt. I only ask you to be patient until we all agree on point 2.

 

[kbmonday]

Thank you and I feel the same way. With this in mind we are very near the end of this talk which is going to answer every question you've ever about God's word.

Thank you for giving your own opinion on this. My opinion agrees also. You will soon see how our agreement on this will lead us to all truth.

To the absolute truth of what Jesus taught.

Edifying only. Not one but of strife, hostility, disagreement, or bitterness between us. Only the pure peace love and safety God offers us in his word.

Please lets stay focused on the main points we both agree on.
Again I would ask not to Bible hop from book and verse to book and verse.
if we can just stay focused for a few moments longer you will see exactly what the point is.

We agree God is good.
We agree he loves all sinners.
We agree he wants to save us.
We agree Jesus came to save us from our sins.
We agree he rose and ascended to heaven and sent his Holy Spirit to comfort us to give us gifts and to lead us into the true .
knowledge of God.

This is point #1.

(Please know that the OP here is exactly as it was in the other thread and everything I'm saying to you now I said over there. In that other thread I believe I was misunderstood because I was so excited by what I saw I blurted everything out too fast at one time. in this thread we are taking our time. We're looking more closely and agreeing together.
We have agreed on 1. there are only two more points and I believe we will have no trouble agreeing on either of them.
----------
Here is Point #2

What the Bible says:
He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. Jn.3:33 KJV
-----------

What I believe the Bible says,

A "seal" was used to hide the contents of a document. It could be legal, but once sealed it was the speakers final word.
In this case the final word was "God is true."
---------
I want to know if if you agree with my assessment of John 3:33.

I ask your own opinion. I don't want another theologians opinion. As a competent Bible student I'm asking only for your opinion.

Do wee agree?

I have a different understanding of John 3. In a Hebrew wedding the witness, or testimony, seal was only unsealed if there was a divorce proceeding so that they had an unadulterated copy of the marriage agreement/covenant. This seal, IMO is the seal that marks us as His bride mentioned throughout scripture. There were 2 other sealed covenants during a wedding, one for the wife's dad to hold and one for the son's dad. This marriage contract, which is sealed, is the same covenant that is unsealed in Revelation. It is also the promise that God has kept. And yes, it also declares God as the truth, because it proves that He keeps His word in all things. But, that is my understanding and is from a more Hebrew perspective. What is your interpretation?