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The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

Knowing the Lord is possible because of the Spirit. Knowing all that can be known as God knows it is never going to happen this side of Heaven. We know in part and that includes fully understanding all of God's word. In some cases, we believe we know the truth of a thing, we could be right on that belief, but have no way of fully knowing that we're right. We believe. If God revealed all truth to us then there would be no divisions. As it is, there are not only divisions but there are people even in a small Bible with varying beliefs. The explanation isn't that "Well they don't have the Spirit." which some have said to me. No, it's because we are flawed and we see in part and I believe that this is by God's hand (so that we struggle to learn and keep struggling).
 
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If the Spirit leads you into all Truth why don't you know it then? Why is your understanding limited? As is mine. Besides, that verse above is taken out of context. It doesn't mean what you think it means. This happens all the time with the Bible. People take a "verse" out of context and build a doctrine or theology around it.

No, YOU see through a glass dimly. You see ONLY in part. You do not see all Truth. This is true for all of us. And it's evidenced in the fact that you, and everyone else, knows only in part.
 
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When I get questions like the first one above I know the person responding doesn't understand what I've been saying all along. I've posted my exact belief many times in this thread. Knowing some truth is not knowing all truth. And John 16:13 wasn't said to us. It's not a promise to us. In context, it was meant for a limited group.
 
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All the truth is ALL. Do you know ALL the truth? No.

Here's a little later. 19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? 20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

Was this written to us? If not, why the previous verses but not these?
 
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Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.

NOT written to you or anyone else reading this. Not even remotely about you or anyone reading this. Same as the above verse you think applies to Believers. It doesn't.
 
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We are given all the Truth we need to make our election sure. We are given all that we need to run the race with endurance. I believe that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth that we need, that will be beneficial to our growth as believers.

When I stated this thread I had in mind the many times someone said to me that the Holy Spirit revealed to them the meaning of this verse or that verse and then they proceed to explain. The problem was, I didn't agree with them one bit. It got me to wonder if people aren't simply filtering meaning of things they read (in this case the Bible) through their own biases and attributing the conclusion to the work of the Holy Spirit. I think that's the case most of the time.
 
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As usual, well said. I heard this today. Many of us have heard people say, "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it!" But I say, "The Bible says it, I interpret it, that doesn't settle it!" It seems I'm the problem - not always - but most of the time. Where I'm certain, I move forward but keep an open mind. Where I doubt, I continue pressing on toward the truth knowing I may never settle certain questions or issues. That's okay. God is always still God and I'm good with that. ;)
 
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The letter to the Corinthians was not written to you. It was written to them. This is the most obvious example. So when we read Paul's writings, we ought to consider both the culture in which it was written and the intended audience.

Reading John 14 one cannot miss that Jesus is comforting His Disciples. He was talking to them specifically about their situation with Him. Christians quote verse 26 and make the claim that it was written for them and therefore the theology they hold is from the guidance of the HS.
 
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But you've yet to define exactly what you mean by that. Yes we grow in knowledge and yes the Spirit guides us. But we know in part and that won't ever change. The truth we do know we know from the HS.

Yet, there are different versions of any particular "truth" out there so obviously some have NOT been guided into truth by the HS but have been guided into error by their own efforts. There's plenty of evidence that error abounds in the Church.

If two people disagree on any one thing (easy to find this) then either they are both in error (their belief is not true) or one is in error and the other knows the truth. But both may claim they have the truth by the HS!

Often, the "truth" one holds is just a personal interpretation and a matter of personal belief.
 
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Yes, every believer has the Holy Spirit and the HS works with them in their walk and growth in the Lord. Still, we have to do the work. We read and we study and yes, we ought to read the ideas of theologians.

There really isn't a "simple reading of the text" because we don't even have the original language and cultural background working to our advantage. We read a word and say, "ah ha! The Bible says this!" But is it that simple? I say no. So when I read the Bible, I come away with lots of questions to explore rather than a theology or doctrine to practice.

I remember reading this book: https://www.christianbook.com/bruchko-bruce-olson/9781591859932/pd/59939
It's a great book to read but there was one example that stand out. Unfortunately I can't remember exactly the word problem Bruce Olson faced but I found this on Wikipedia. It illustrates the point I'm making exactly.

You are a young missionary and want to explain what it means to have faith. But there's no word for faith in the native's language. There's no concept for that. What word will you use? Bruce Olson used the word for hammock. Hammock = faith. And how about the Bible = a Banana Stalk!
Here's the highlight from the quote below: ""Bruchko, I've tied my hammock strings into Jesus. Now I speak a new language." For the Barí, "language" is equivalent to life. Bobarishora spoke of having a new life, suspended in Jesus."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Olson

Imagine if we went about the world spreading the Good News and telling people they needed to tie their hammocks to Jesus. The Bari wold get it but not likely many others would get the connection. We all read the Bible in a language in which it was not written. We try to understand it from our own culture (which as the above story shows, can work) but I think in many cases, we read too much of our own culture into the text and neglect the culture from which it came!

Reading this book caused me to ask if the ideas in the biblical autographs are accurately conveyed through our language and the words chosen by the translators. I rather like the idea of tying my hammock strings to Jesus. But it would be meaningless in the English Bible while it perfectly captures the Gospel in the Bari language. That's because it corresponds to the Original's intent. ;)

IMHO
 
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My objection is that many Christians read the same passage, and come to different conclusions. But they claim they are understanding correctly. I run into this all the time. When challenged they claim they "prayed" that God would give them understanding. Put 10 Christians in a room, discuss baptism, and watch the disagreements follow. You can't sprinkle, yes you can! It's necessary for salvation, not it's not!!! On and on. All reading the same text but holding to vastly different views.

And this sort of problem is everywhere. It's in every church, every nation, every culture. So this idea that the HS lead someone to this or that conclusion generally gets my skeptic hat a buzzin. The HS is NOT the author of confusion. Something's wrong and I think it's us.
 
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There. Now please bother to read the things I actually wrote and comment from there. I've explained the OP many times.
 
civilwarbuff said:
PZ, all your responses are coming up in boxes without any indication of who or what your are responding to......
Click to expand...

I think I've fixed them so that they reflect a clarification of the OP and its purpose. People who comment negatively about the OP (some) have stated things or positions I don't hold. I hope people will read what is actually said (entirely) or just not comment. (not speaking to you CWB)
 
Papa Zoom said:
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.

NOT written to you or anyone else reading this. Not even remotely about you or anyone reading this. Same as the above verse you think applies to Believers. It doesn't.
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so you dont think we have a expected end? this God has great things in store for us spiritually i am not a name it claim God told me send a hundred dollars and i get 400 back.. the Holy spirit leads us in to ALL truth. the truth we need to know . if i need to know some one is a fake .i can soon tell by listening real close and watching of actions . last but not least a person is not fake just because they believe different .i dont agree with calvinism teaching at all. but there just as saved as me.. the spirit of truth leads me when i listen
 
ezra said:
so you dont think we have a expected end? this God has great things in store for us spiritually i am not a name it claim God told me send a hundred dollars and i get 400 back.. the Holy spirit leads us in to ALL truth. the truth we need to know . if i need to know some one is a fake .i can soon tell by listening real close and watching of actions . last but not least a person is not fake just because they believe different .i dont agree with calvinism teaching at all. but there just as saved as me.. the spirit of truth leads me when i listen
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Who on earth knows ALL truth?
 
Papa Zoom said:
Who on earth knows ALL truth?
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he shows us the truth as we need it. even the disciples didnt know.in fact there are things they didnt know at the time. but we do know..
1 John 2:20

“But ye have an unction (anointing } from the Holy One, and ye know all things. once again when we need it so its not a matter of "Who on earth knows ALL truth" *** but the truth we need to know
illumination
  1. The act of illuminating, or supplying with light; the state of being illuminated. he brings it to light .
  2. inspiration is the doctrine in Christian theology that the authors and editors of the Bible were led or influenced by God with the result that their writings may be designated in some sense the word of God.[
  3. this not some magic ball we can see into the future of our lives
 
ezra said:
he shows us the truth as we need it. even the disciples didnt know.in fact there are things they didnt know at the time. but we do know..
1 John 2:20

“But ye have an unction (anointing } from the Holy One, and ye know all things. once again when we need it so its not a matter of "Who on earth knows ALL truth" *** but the truth we need to know
illumination
  1. The act of illuminating, or supplying with light; the state of being illuminated. he brings it to light .
  2. inspiration is the doctrine in Christian theology that the authors and editors of the Bible were led or influenced by God with the result that their writings may be designated in some sense the word of God.[
  3. this not some magic ball we can see into the future of our lives
Click to expand...
then we're not in disagreement. The op states that the HS doesn't guide into ALL truth. I've made this clear throughout my posts.
 
For discussion sake, 4 gospels tell the same story, all true but maybe from a slightly different individual perspective .. All through the OT the same story can be retold but often with a little more or differently worded info added, every word inspired by God .. But here's an example of what I mentioned earlier .. A while back, I had waited all year for the Clemson/UNC football game, had the house to myself and in the middle of a great game in the 3rd Q ,I suddenly Iost all interest in the game and was prompted to go see my friend John . So I went to his house, no car all the curtains were pulled over the windows, no signs of life, but something told me he was inside in the room so I knocked 4 times .. Something said ''that's enough'' so I went back home and got back in the ball game, a couple weeks later I was at my church on Sat camping out with my Royal Rangers boys youth when John comes up .. He said ''you come to my house 2 weeks ago and knocked but I was home'' I said I know .. He said I had to come tell you that I was in very bad spiritual shape and had intended to commit suicide but that if God really loved him he would send a Christian to his house .. I said John you know God loves you because I was watching my ballgame and now I know why God caused me to get up and go . I didn't have any reason to see you .. So for now I'm thinking the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth and not the Holy Spirit will lead you all into the same truth kinda .. Matthew 9:29
 
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