So do you agree, not all are genuine? Why would you say it is not the Spirit and it is only our own bias and misunderstanding at work? Is that something the Spirit gave you to say? Or is this you following your own spirit?
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The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!
- Thread starter Papa Zoom
- Start date
So do you agree, not all are genuine? Why would you say it is not the Spirit and it is only our own bias and misunderstanding at work? Is that something the Spirit gave you to say? Or is this you following your own spirit?
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Which is the problem. I know I've grown skeptical over the years but I've grown tired of people claiming that the HS led them to understand this verse or that. Then they explain the verse and I sit there and think, "that is so off base."
If they are qualified. A lot of teaching is just passing down what was taught them. If it's the truth, good. But if not, bad. I was taught many things as a kid I now totally reject.
Good books written by qualified and well vetted authors and lots of prayer. I keep an open mind - meaning I'm willing to listen to any idea and consider it. Once I've considered it fully, and decided, the door mostly closes. I actually have some ideas that would raise the blood pressure of some here. I'm ok with that. God's big enough to ask tough questions of.
Reading the Bible is important but it's limiting. This is my view. I need to talk to others about my ideas and get feedback. We search the Scriptures together and we read books together. I have favorite authors. I read a lot. A book, if a good one, is written by someone who has studied far deeper than I can. I went to Bible college but after that, I went to work as a teacher. No more deep, deep biblical studies. I still read a lot but that led to more questions than answers. lol I'm rambling now. I hope I answered your question somewhere in here.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Many reasons maybe. People come from different traditions and have been taught different things.
A good case can (and has) be made from either side of the argument. Jesus sums it up in John 14:23
John 14:23-24New International Version (NIV) 23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
So, along with other verses, those who see things as I see them understand that those who love Jesus keep the faith. God loves them and THEY come and make their home with us. Jesus also said His sheep know his voice. A goat hangs out with the sheep, says he's really a sheep, but then walks away. He never was a sheep. He's a goat.
Others have different explanations and that's fine. The door is still open for me on this issue but not by much.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Yes and while this applies to us in some measure, it was told to the Disciples for a specific reason. So this verse is a debatable one with respect to the OP.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Not what's being said here. No one is saying the Spirit says one thing here and another thing there. The Spirit's leading isn't the problem. We are the problem.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
I've said a lot in these past many pages. When the Holy Spirit speaks, it's Truth. If it's the HS leading me, I will be led into truth. But if I only THINK it's the HS but it turns out it's just me, that's a problem. If you and I disagree on a matter you think important, who's right?
I've had people say to me that the HS guides us into all truth then proceed to tell me (and others) what the HS revealed to them (here it comes). Then they say something I totally think is bunk. But they insist it's the TRUTH and from the HS. I'm thinking the guy is nutty and the faster I can get away from him the better. I've know many people over the years that think the HS reveals things to them just because they prayed before Bible study. I'm thinking it was the pizza they ate.
There are certain things I'm confident the HS leads us all towards. Then there's the rest of the story. For those things we're gonna have to do the heavy lifting. Some things in the Bible just can't be fully understood. Yet people fight over the things they can't possibly know with certainty anyway.
Young earth or old? Who cares. I say old. I say a lot more too but it would give some here bad dreams. ultimately, I say no one knows how old the earth is. No one knows how God created. It's fun to study and discuss but no one knows the way God knows it. and IF a person was right, they couldn't know that and if they were wrong, they couldn't know that either.
Not “some”—every single person does this.
J
Justicewolf
Guest
It pertains precisely to the proclamation within the title of the OP.
As does this article with supporting verses.
The Holy Spirit Is the Guide to Truth
The Holy Spirit is the guide to truth. The Holy Spirit both grants us knowledge of the truth and empowers us to tell the truth to others.
"But I [Jesus] tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and condemnation: sin, because they do not believe in me; righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me; condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.
"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I [Jesus] told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you." (Jn 16:12-15)
"The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name – he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you." (Jn 14:26)
"When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say. You will be given at that moment what you are to say. For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you." (Mt 10:19-20; parallels in Mk 13:11; Lk 12:11-12)
Then Zechariah his father, filled with the holy Spirit, prophesied. (Lk 1:67)
Now there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon. This man was righteous and devout, awaiting the consolation of Israel, and the holy Spirit was upon him. It had been revealed to him by the holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Messiah of the Lord. He came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to perform the custom of the law in regard to him, he took him into his arms and blessed God. (Lk 2:25-28)
Then Peter, filled with the holy Spirit, answered them, ... (Acts 4:8)
As Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said [to him], "There are three men here looking for you. So get up, go downstairs, and accompany them without hesitation, because I have sent them." (Acts 10:19-20)
But Saul, also known as Paul, filled with the holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, "You son of the devil, you enemy of all that is right, full of every sort of deceit and fraud. Will you not stop twisting the straight paths of [the] Lord? Even now the hand of the Lord is upon you. You will be blind, and unable to see the sun for a time." Immediately a dark mist fell upon him, and he went about seeking people to lead him by the hand. (Acts 13:9-11)
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
It pertains precisely to the proclamation within the title of the OP.
As does this article with supporting verses.
The Holy Spirit Is the Guide to Truth
The Holy Spirit is the guide to truth. The Holy Spirit both grants us knowledge of the truth and empowers us to tell the truth to others.
"But I [Jesus] tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and condemnation: sin, because they do not believe in me; righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me; condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.
"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I [Jesus] told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you." (Jn 16:12-15)
"The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name – he will teach you everything and remind you of all that I told you." (Jn 14:26)
"When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say. You will be given at that moment what you are to say. For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you." (Mt 10:19-20; parallels in Mk 13:11; Lk 12:11-12)
Then Zechariah his father, filled with the holy Spirit, prophesied. (Lk 1:67)
Now there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon. This man was righteous and devout, awaiting the consolation of Israel, and the holy Spirit was upon him. It had been revealed to him by the holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Messiah of the Lord. He came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to perform the custom of the law in regard to him, he took him into his arms and blessed God. (Lk 2:25-28)
Then Peter, filled with the holy Spirit, answered them, ... (Acts 4:8)
As Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said [to him], "There are three men here looking for you. So get up, go downstairs, and accompany them without hesitation, because I have sent them." (Acts 10:19-20)
But Saul, also known as Paul, filled with the holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, "You son of the devil, you enemy of all that is right, full of every sort of deceit and fraud. Will you not stop twisting the straight paths of [the] Lord? Even now the hand of the Lord is upon you. You will be blind, and unable to see the sun for a time." Immediately a dark mist fell upon him, and he went about seeking people to lead him by the hand. (Acts 13:9-11)
This section describes on aspect of the nature of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, and nothing Jesus said was he saying to you personally. He was specifically speaking to others about specific events they were facing. Using any of these verses to claim the HS speaks truth to you in ALL things is bad exegesis.
J
Justicewolf
Guest
Jesus said after he left he would send the comforter to guide into all righteousness.He said that to his Apostles. That promise did not stop at the Apostles, and it does not not exist today. The holy spirit always speaks truth. Whether we are attuned to hearing that in the clamour of this worlds distractions is another thing. Thinking the holy spirit does not speak truth to us in all things, whether we can hear that or not, is bad exegesis.
ezra
Member
nobody said the spirit does not...
1 Corinthians 2:
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
a point was made in a early post on eternal security they said they did not believe in it but yet others do . who holds the truth ? all truth
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
You haven't read all I've said in this thread as what you've stated here doesn't reflect my view.
You seem to be saying the majority do not possess the Spirit. I agree.
Then you seem to be moving away from the Bible and towards the scholars. How many years of study will open the eyes of the blind? Study will not bring them sight. Yet it seems right to the majority. People will follow the blind.
And it provides us with even more evidence of the power of God, that he reveals himself to whom ever he wills.
Jesus said the Spirit of truth will guide us into all the truth. re. the Scriptures, what they say. re. Him, who he is and what he said. re. sin and righteousness and judgment and the things that are to come.
You say the Spirit doesn't lead us into all the truth. So we have what Jesus said and what you say. Who is right? It makes no sense to argue with Jesus.
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civilwarbuff
Member
Why? It is more fun to tell you what you really believe then you get an opportunity to learn something new
.
ezra
Member
Romans 8:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded islife and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.{Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.} no spirit no salvation
ezra
Member
what fun would that be?Why? It is more fun to tell you what you really believe then you get an opportunity to learn something new
J
Justicewolf
Guest
I read and understood you perfectly. I quoted what you stated in one post directed toward me, and I replied exactly to your remarks.It is not necessary to read 9 pages of posts from you in order to comprehend your cogent thoughts in one post is it? You're capable of saying what you mean to say once. Especially when you quote me and my one post to do so.
I really wish you'd not say you wish people would read what you've written as a means of repealing what someone says in response, and that you disagree with. I don't need you to agree with my thoughts. However, my thoughts are on topic and precisely addressing your quoted observations to me. And they're in scripture.
The Holy Spirit does speak all truth. The adverse of that is the false claim the Holy Spirit does not speak all truth.
We as Christians carry that spirit within us and as Jesus promised, that comforter, and on a personal note it is certainly that in my life, will guide us so that we are not without Jesus and his teachings. This was said to the Disciples, who became the Apostles who delivered the great commission Jesus intended. And it did not cease to be true after they had all passed on. The promise of that comforter was Jesus teaching to the Disciples that it be carried forth as part of the salvation message to the world.
Now, whether or not we are able to discern the Holy Spirits guidance is our responsibility. Being in this noisy world of distractions and those things that occupy our attentions and seek often enough to lead us from the Word.
However, if we seek sincerely the guidance of God's Holy Spirit, we shall find it. It is a growing into relationship with God.
You are able to disagree. However, it does nothing to remove scriptures from the page, nor the truth of God's spirit from the heart of one who knows relationship. And the Holy Spirit's realness in her life.
This threads title, the other that you wrote saying, the Bible doesn't say anything. Maybe the conflict that you seem to see in what you imagine as peoples comprehension of your meaning would be avoided if you didn't title discussion invitations with an opening title introduction that is adverse to what we know is true in God's word. Just a peace filled observation offered with all respect and no intention of offense. I'm new. And I do admit reading those thread titles in a Christian forum caused me first to look to the profile block of the author, you, to see what the faith line said before I read further.
Have a blessed and peace filled Thanksgiving.
ezra
Member
i love posting in forums especially on biblical subjects. it cause me to bring scriptures to remembrance and do a search of what others has to say. i will be the first to say at times i post with flare and it can be aggressive but not personnel. i use to post in a forum on a no holds barred. most of the time i was the only one using scripture and i learned to stand my ground... having said all that i see beliefs becoming very personnel . happy thanksgiving all