The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

[ezra]

then we're not in disagreement. The op states that the HS doesn't guide into ALL truth. I've made this clear throughout my posts.

never was a big disagreement just a matter of how i say all things and what they are

 

[MarkT]

Ok, kill me now. Or better yet, hear me out.

John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

People I've talked to always refer to this verse to explain that the Holy Spirit guides people into understanding the Truths of God's word. This has always confused me. That's because I've noticed that throughout my life, Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on?

I don't think this verse means what people think it means. Clearly, the Holy Spirit doesn't guide any of into all truth because if He did, we'd know everything.

We'd all agree on everything because it would be from God. No divisions.

We wouldn't need each other for the "iron sharpens iron" thing because what's better that the HS?

AND if it were true that the HS guides us into ALL truth, then this verse seems contradictory.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So chew on that and lets talk (nicely) about what this could mean. I think John 16:13 is quoted and applied out of its greater context. I'll share more on that later. I'd like to hear (positive and non-emotional) comments first to see if anyone has wondered about this as well.

I put this in apologetics because it has to do with understanding and defending what we believe to be true. A skeptic could ask how it is we don't know everything since we claim the HS will guide us into all truth.

It doesn't mean we will become all knowing. It means we will have the ability to discern all the truth, for there are many false teachers and false prophets. The Spirit of truth will declare what he hears from God and he will make it known to us. He will convince the world of sin and of judgment and of righteousness. And he will declare to you the things that are to come.

As to why there are so many different understandings. One reason is not everyone who calls him Lord is a Christian. Not everyone who believes will continue to believe. Not every teaching that you hear is true.

 

[Papa Zoom]

It doesn't mean we will become all knowing. It means we will have the ability to discern all the truth, for there are many false teachers and false prophets. The Spirit of truth will declare what he hears from God and he will make it known to us. He will convince the world of sin and of judgment and of righteousness. And he will declare to you the things that are to come.

As to why there are so many different understandings. One reason is not everyone who calls him Lord is a Christian. Not everyone who believes will continue to believe. Not every teaching that you hear is true.

Well you don't have the ability to discern all truth unless you are claiming to have a perfect theology - which no one has. So on that point it seems you are mistaken.

The Spirit of truth makes known to us what He hears from God? Do you read this board? The Spirit of truth is telling one person one thing and another another thing.

It's a total cop-out to suggest that those who have different understandings are not Christians.

And yes, not every teaching I hear is true. I don't believe what you just said is actually true. I've seen too many times where Christians make the claim of the "Spirit led me to this" like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

You illustrate the heart of the problem we face as Christians. We credit the "Spirit of truth" to something we believe while it was just our own bias and misunderstanding at work. Maybe not in all cases but I'm confident it's the majority.

 

[Randy]

or perhaps
Everything the Holy Spirit guides one in is Truth. All truth.

 

[Papa Zoom]

or perhaps
Everything the Holy Spirit guides one in is Truth. All truth.

This statement is 100% True. Best statement of the thread. If the HS is the Agent at work, (as opposed to our pre-conceived notions at work) Truth always follows. How to discern the difference is another matter. Both (forces) persons are at play. I trust the Holy Spirit. I don't trust me.

 

[GodsGrace]

or perhaps
Everything the Holy Spirit guides one in is Truth. All truth.

I don't understand this statement.
Clarify?

 

[Papa Zoom]

I don't understand this statement.
Clarify?

I'll wait for Randy to explain his thinking but I think I get what he is saying. Read my response and you'll get a flavor of my thinking here.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I think I understand what his point is as well......

 

[GodsGrace]

This statement is 100% True. Best statement of the thread. If the HS is the Agent at work, (as opposed to our pre-conceived notions at work) Truth always follows. How to discern the difference is another matter. Both (forces) persons are at play. I trust the Holy Spirit. I don't trust me.

PZ
I understand your statement and agree.
Some come to the written word with preconceived ideas and read everything in that light.

I trust the Holy Spirit too.
But everyone claims that it's the holy Spirit teaching them.

I must say that the Bible is not easy to understand and it would behoove us to be taught by a church.
Do you agree?
Besides that and theology how else could one learn?

 

[GodsGrace]

I think I understand what his point is as well......

What is it?

 

[civilwarbuff]

What is it?

From my perspective we cannot be guided into ALL truth as it is impossible for us, as humans, to know ALL things. That would put us on the same level as God. But for instance let's say you want to be the best steward possible with the things God has given you. Then through prayer the HS can guide you into that truth and down that path. Now, it is not like the Matrix where you get plugged into a computer and voila instantly know everything about becoming a good steward.....it may take you an entire lifetime to get to that point but by letting the HS guide you in that area you can come into all truth about being a good steward. Just my way of looking at it........

 

[GodsGrace]

From my perspective we cannot be guided into ALL truth as it is impossible for us, as humans, to know ALL things. That would put us on the same level as God. But for instance let's say you want to be the best steward possible with the things God has given you. Then through prayer the HS can guide you into that truth and down that path. Now, it is not like the Matrix where you get plugged into a computer and voila instantly know everything about becoming a good steward.....it may take you an entire lifetime to get to that point but by letting the HS guide you in that area you can come into all truth about being a good steward. Just my way of looking at it........

I agree. We can't know all truth, just the truth God wants us to know, that we need to live for Him, and that we can understand.

Agreed on the rest too.

 

[Randy]

I don't understand this statement.
Clarify?

I am sorry I thought it was self explanatory. Everything God guides you in is truthful. So all truth.

Not only that since Jesus is in heaven He would be guiding via the Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am sorry I thought it was self explanatory. Everything God guides you in is truthful. So all truth.

Not only that since Jesus is in heaven He would be guiding via the Spirit.

Then why do I believe salvation can be lost by abandoning the faith, and some don't?

 

[Randy]

Then why do I believe salvation can be lost by abandoning the faith, and some don't?

I ask those who state they were Christians then leave the faith,"How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and NOT know Jesus Lives?"

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[Justicewolf]

John 14:26

 

[Justicewolf]

Then why do I believe salvation can be lost by abandoning the faith, and some don't?

Can anyone here in good faith really answer for you that question?

I ask those who state they were Christians then leave the faith,"How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and NOT know Jesus Lives?"

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

All of 1 John 2 answers that in full I think.


1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation(Propitiation = Propitiation is a two-part act that involves appeasing the wrath of an offended person and being reconciled to him) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

 

[Randy]

Then why do I believe salvation can be lost by abandoning the faith, and some don't?

Because the 12 are in heaven as well as the Lord. There are no true Apostles walking the earth today to make the final call. And I am not prophet nor a apostle. Besides did the lord really lead us in all we post?
Randy

 

[GodsGrace]

Can anyone here in good faith really answer for you that question?


All of 1 John 2 answers that in full I think.


1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation(Propitiation = Propitiation is a two-part act that involves appeasing the wrath of an offended person and being reconciled to him) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

 

[MarkT]

Well you don't have the ability to discern all truth unless you are claiming to have a perfect theology - which no one has. So on that point it seems you are mistaken.

The Spirit of truth makes known to us what He hears from God? Do you read this board? The Spirit of truth is telling one person one thing and another another thing.

It's a total cop-out to suggest that those who have different understandings are not Christians.

And yes, not every teaching I hear is true. I don't believe what you just said is actually true. I've seen too many times where Christians make the claim of the "Spirit led me to this" like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

You illustrate the heart of the problem we face as Christians. We credit the "Spirit of truth" to something we believe while it was just our own bias and misunderstanding at work. Maybe not in all cases but I'm confident it's the majority.

First, the Spirit is not going to lead us to less than the truth. The Spirit is the Spirit of God. Therefore he is the Spirit of truth. He counsels us in our way. So he is called the Counsellor.

I disagree that the Spirit is telling one person one thing and another another thing.

Mostly I see men following their own spirit.