I in my studies of scripture have been coming closer and closer to reaching MANY of the same conclusions preterists have. I unlike them however, do not believe that ALL THINGS have been fulfilled nor do I believe that the judgment and return of anointed Jesus in the 1st century generation was symbolic and spiritual in natural only. Though history does not give much credible evidence, I am persuaded by the words of scripture that Jesus did what he said he would and what his followers believed he would do and that is return during their lifetime in judgment and to collect (resurrecting some first) the elect. I believe there was a literal bodily resurrection of the dead martyred saints and that they along with the saints who were alive and remained at Jesus parousia were 'caught up' with Jesus in the air where what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:23 became a reality. It is these saints that Paul further spoke of as the ones who would be clothed in immortality and who I believe John in Revelation 20 spoke of as being party to the "1st resurrection over whom the 2nd death will have no power."
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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The Hope Mankind
- Thread starter The Light
- Start date
As far as the church is concerned, I think we have it wrong in many ways today. I do believe that Jesus intended to form the church IF what is meant by church is assembly or congregation of called ones that were sealed by God's holy breath in the first century. I do NOT believe that the church that Jesus established continued ON THIS EARTH after the 1st century or is one and the same with modern churches. I currently believe the real 'church', was "redeeemed from the Earth" and has since been clothed with immortality and is reigning with Jesus. What is known TODAY as the church in my understanding is NOT a continuation of what Jesus established and redeemed from the Earth back then.
I do not see the church as we know it as the Ekklesia (Assembly) that Jesus said he would build in Matthew 16:18. I believe that this 'congregation' or 'assembly' of called ones were the saints of the 1st century who were taken by Jesus after his Parousia. I understand them as being among the 144k, the 'Little Flock", as well as a first-fruit (after Jesus of course) of those who are to be resurrected.
I see the church organization and institution that exists today as a construct of man devoid of God's Breath (Holy Spirit). I do not necessarily see it as a bad organization but rather one that is secular despite its claims of being of Divine origin. To be clear, one of the main reasons I feel exists for there being a distinction is that Jesus said that the gates of Hades (or more likely Sheol since he probably was speaking Aramaic) would not prevail against his assembly. That statement emphasizes the point that DEATH would have no power over what he was establishing and this in fact his assembly would be an immortal assembly.
I do not see the church as we know it as the Ekklesia (Assembly) that Jesus said he would build in Matthew 16:18. I believe that this 'congregation' or 'assembly' of called ones were the saints of the 1st century who were taken by Jesus after his Parousia. I understand them as being among the 144k, the 'Little Flock", as well as a first-fruit (after Jesus of course) of those who are to be resurrected.
I see the church organization and institution that exists today as a construct of man devoid of God's Breath (Holy Spirit). I do not necessarily see it as a bad organization but rather one that is secular despite its claims of being of Divine origin. To be clear, one of the main reasons I feel exists for there being a distinction is that Jesus said that the gates of Hades (or more likely Sheol since he probably was speaking Aramaic) would not prevail against his assembly. That statement emphasizes the point that DEATH would have no power over what he was establishing and this in fact his assembly would be an immortal assembly.
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What about us?
I believe it is the "church" mentioned in my previous post who will be given and has been given reign in the Kingdom with Jesus while the rest of humanity, including us, will be party to the final resurrection referenced in John 5 (which includes the just and the unjust). Our hope is to be given citizenship in the Kingdom when it is established on the renewed Earth (land, not necessarily the Earth as we know it) where we will have access to trees of life.
I believe it is the "church" mentioned in my previous post who will be given and has been given reign in the Kingdom with Jesus while the rest of humanity, including us, will be party to the final resurrection referenced in John 5 (which includes the just and the unjust). Our hope is to be given citizenship in the Kingdom when it is established on the renewed Earth (land, not necessarily the Earth as we know it) where we will have access to trees of life.
Christ_empowered
Member
I'm going to have to study this some more, after reading your points about the 1st century church vs the modern church. thanks. 
Luciferian political, economic and false religious system (beast out of the sea and out of the earth, Rev 13) they were made rich by this system being the great harlot now bewail and lament over her destruction. Even the merchants weep and mourn over her as they no longer have anyone to buy their merchandise, Rev 17, 18.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18; John 5:28, 29; John 6:40.
Every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him, Rev 1:7, 8. While Christ is in the air He destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, as He only has to speak the words that destroys them casting them alive into the lake of fire. He then slays the remnant with the sword, meaning the words that proceed out of His mouth. The remnant are those leaders from every nation that follow after the beast and it's false prophet, Rev 19:11-21.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18; John 5:28, 29; John 6:40.
We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.
Satan is then bound for a time after the beast and false prophet are destroyed, Rev 20:1-3 Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after he is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14:1, 2; Luke 21:20 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.
Now comes the great white throne judgment and two sets of books are opened with one being the Lamb's book of life. All those names that are not found in the lamb's book of life are then judged and cast into the lake of fire. God then makes new again the heaven and the earth and ushers down the New Jerusalem as we are there with the Lord for eternity.
Everything after Rev Chapter 12 is done after the seventh trumpet has sounded. Christ second coming in Rev 19 is on the last day as every prophecy will then be fulfilled.
Scripture never speaks of two resurrections, but only one resurrection, John 5:28, 29 and a second death being that of death and hell being cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:14, 15. There are two separate judgements, but only one resurrection as all will occur at the same time at the Great White Throne Judgement then will God renew the heaven and earth and usher down the New Jerusalem.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18; John 5:28, 29; John 6:40.
Every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him, Rev 1:7, 8. While Christ is in the air He destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, as He only has to speak the words that destroys them casting them alive into the lake of fire. He then slays the remnant with the sword, meaning the words that proceed out of His mouth. The remnant are those leaders from every nation that follow after the beast and it's false prophet, Rev 19:11-21.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 2 Thessalonians 4:13-18; John 5:28, 29; John 6:40.
We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.
Satan is then bound for a time after the beast and false prophet are destroyed, Rev 20:1-3 Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after he is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14:1, 2; Luke 21:20 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.
Now comes the great white throne judgment and two sets of books are opened with one being the Lamb's book of life. All those names that are not found in the lamb's book of life are then judged and cast into the lake of fire. God then makes new again the heaven and the earth and ushers down the New Jerusalem as we are there with the Lord for eternity.
Everything after Rev Chapter 12 is done after the seventh trumpet has sounded. Christ second coming in Rev 19 is on the last day as every prophecy will then be fulfilled.
Scripture never speaks of two resurrections, but only one resurrection, John 5:28, 29 and a second death being that of death and hell being cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:14, 15. There are two separate judgements, but only one resurrection as all will occur at the same time at the Great White Throne Judgement then will God renew the heaven and earth and usher down the New Jerusalem.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ancient Jerusalem.
No the harlot is not Ancient Jerusalem, but did rule over Jerusalem as during her long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.
In the end of days this harlot being mystery Babylon revealed to us in Rev 17 will take it's seat in the Holy City of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years after the sounding of the seventh trumpet of God's great wrath, Rev 12-13.
Rev 17:7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The mystery of the woman is now revealed to John as being the Babylonian Empire (was, and is not, but yet is). The same Empire that in time became the Roman Empire that has captured John and sent him to the isle of Patmos as a prisoner for preaching the word of God to the seven Churches in Asia. The same Empire that have always persecuted, even to death, the saints, the Prophets, the Apostles and even Christ.
The beast, being Satan, has always controlled the seven heads and ten nations as he works through those to kill, steal and destroy that which is God’s. We read back in Chapter 13 about the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth and who the son of perdition is as Satan has always works through this Luciferian religious system.
When you read through Rev 17:7-18 The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.
The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.
In the end of days this harlot being mystery Babylon revealed to us in Rev 17 will take it's seat in the Holy City of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years after the sounding of the seventh trumpet of God's great wrath, Rev 12-13.
Rev 17:7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The mystery of the woman is now revealed to John as being the Babylonian Empire (was, and is not, but yet is). The same Empire that in time became the Roman Empire that has captured John and sent him to the isle of Patmos as a prisoner for preaching the word of God to the seven Churches in Asia. The same Empire that have always persecuted, even to death, the saints, the Prophets, the Apostles and even Christ.
The beast, being Satan, has always controlled the seven heads and ten nations as he works through those to kill, steal and destroy that which is God’s. We read back in Chapter 13 about the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth and who the son of perdition is as Satan has always works through this Luciferian religious system.
When you read through Rev 17:7-18 The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.
The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.
Lucifer means bringer of light and according to errant human tradition is one and the same with the satan, however; according to the Bible, that is not the case. Isaiah 14 is misconstrued and along with Ezekiel 28 applied incorrectly by most to the devil.
That said the very idea that "Luciferian" anything has a demonic power behind it is mistaken.
Since the beginning of Gods creation of the heavens and earth in Genesis chapter one there has been an adversary that separates us from God through deceit, temptations and lies. This adversary has many names which include: Lucifer (could be a dual referent to Isaiah 14:12, but no mention in scripture as to, or even if God gave him a name), Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others, but the important thing is who this being is and what purpose did he have and still has in heaven and earth. How did he come into existence in the first place and why was he not destroyed for his evil! Let us go and search the word of God for the answers.
In the Roman language Lucifer was the name given to the morning star Venus. The morning star appears in the sky just before dawn. In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can be translated as Day star, son of the Dawn. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor Day star, son of the Dawn, as Lucifer, and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place from the Latin in that of interpreting Lucifer into a fallen angel now named Satan. In the original Hebrew day star, son of the dawn is used, but not for that of Satan, but for the king of Babylon. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light (Jesus) to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.
The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.
Isaiah in Chapter 14 is speaking prophecy against Babylon and of her destruction, (cross ref: Rev 17, 18), as also being a duel reference in Vs. 12-15 of Lucifer, Satan or whatever name one wants to give to this fallen angel who in the end of days works through the beast out of the sea and out of the earth in whom the one out of the earth is the last false prophet being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.
It's the same in Ezekiel 28 with the fall of the prince of Tyrus as Satan works through him. Vs. 13-19 Satan, not the prince of Tyrus, was actually in the garden of Eden and seeing that iniquity was found in him God cast him out of the garden. From there he started his reign of terror through all four Empires here on earth and will continue working through the son of perdition in the end of days to continue to try killing, stealing and destroying our faith in Christ until he is cast into the lake of fire.
Satan has controlled all four Empires that are still a part of the seven remaining nations that still exist today:
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon. This Empire ran from 2000BC - 1759BC
Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire. This Empire ran approximately from 536BC - 330BC
Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.
Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
This Empire ran from 753BC -27BC