[__ Science __ ] The Human Evolution Ladder Failure Admitted by a Leading Evolutionist

[KV-44-v1]

"" It is also contrary to the Character of God revealed in Scripture and is inconsistent with Christ’s future redemptive work at His Coming when the curse on the whole creation will be removed. Jesus is coming back not to fix a terrible job of creating but to restore a world that He justly judged because of human sin. All old-earth views undermine the Gospel as well. If animals lived and died for millions of years before sin, then why was the death of animals required as a covering for sin in ancient Israel? And why did Jesus "need" to be the lamb of God to take away the sin of the world? Acceptance of millions of years creates very serious theological problems[..] ""

 

[Barbarian]

It looks like it was flooded in different places at different times. Some places, it looks as though it wasn't ever flooded.

So the exact same EFFECT as a Global Flood

No. Entirely different.

Addition would be for example, adding "global" to the flood of Noah.

Thats a example, not listed criteria.

Just one of many such where YE creationists add things to scripture.
It does say Jesus died for us. What it doesn't say is that living things didn't die before the fall.

It does say Jesus died for us. Why not believe what He says and leave it at that?

Those are not the same as history.

Just things that are true, that are not found in scripture. As you see, lots of things like that. And yes history. For example ice ages.

Is the stability of your faith important to you?

The stability of my faith does not depend on YE additions to scripture. Do you understand that those things have nothing to do with your salvation? Yes or no?

Adam and Eve BEGAN to physically die.

That is a YE addition to scripture. Added to make God's word more acceptable to YE creationists.

Again, show me a verse showing that physical death came before sin.

And there's no verse saying it didn't. There are lots of things that are true, that aren't in scripture. The lack of any indication that physical death began with Adam tells us nothing at all.

A Christian has no need to fear death. It is the enemy only to the unsaved.

Where does the Bible say it is only enemy to the unsaved?

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ: 9 Knowing that Christ rising again from the dead, dieth now no more, death shall no more have dominion over him. 10 For in that he died to sin, he died once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God:

1Corinthians 15:54 And when this mortal hath put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?

Why would man farming curse the ground?

Because he would then have to labor to gain food.

Why is this only said AFTER he ate the fruit?

Because before the fall, man did not farm.

Verse?

Genesis 2:16 And he commanded him, saying: Of every tree of paradise thou shalt eat:

 

[Hidden In Him]

For example, adding "global" to the flood of Noah.

Barbarian, I don't understand what your argument is. Again. Scripture states very plainly, "The [waters] rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. Every living thing that moved on the earth perished."

Do you believe the word of God or not?

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian, I don't understand what your argument is. Again. Scripture states very plainly, "The [waters] rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. Every living thing that moved on the earth perished."

That description depends on a flat Earth. That's what the people in Mesopotamia thought it was. A flat earth, covered by a dome above which was water and then heaven. It's like we would say the "sun went down." It doesn't, but we use that figure of speech. So did people who wrote down the description.

And it doesn't say "earth." It says "erets" (land). If it meant all of the Earth, it would have been "tebel." He said the land was covered, but He did not say the entire world was covered.

Do you believe the word of God or not?

 

[KV-44-v1]

That description depends on a flat Earth.

No, you added that /s

That's what the people in Mesopotamia thought it was.

The idea that Genesis is mythology has exactly 0 Bible verses to defend it.

A flat earth,

A Globe Earth.

. It's like we would say the "sun went down." It doesn't, but we use that figure of speech. So did people who wrote down the description.

So you hate the YEC "interpretation" but YOUR interpretation is ok. Wow.

And it doesn't say "earth." It says "erets" (land). If it meant all of the Earth, it would have been "tebel."

Who is right, OEE or the Translators?

Do you believe the word of God or not?

Allegorizers do not believe that what Genesis said happened really happened. So they do not believe Genesis.

 

[Barbarian]

No, you added that

Nope. For example, the sky was described in Genesis as a solid dome with windows in it through which rain fell.
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

The idea that Genesis is mythology has exactly 0 Bible verses to defend it.

It isn't mythology. It's just the early Hebrew concept of the Earth as flat with a bowl-like sky overhead. It's not a science text; if you try to make it one, you miss the point.

A Globe Earth.

Now we know this. It's wrong to project our stuff on the people of that time. God could have also told them, "BTW, the Earth is round, not flat." He chose not to do it. I assume it's because it didn't matter to the message He was giving them.

It's like we would say the "sun went down." It doesn't, but we use that figure of speech. So did people who wrote down the description.

So you hate the YEC "interpretation" but YOUR interpretation is ok. Wow.

Most YECs don't think the Earth is flat. But why would it matter what they think about it? It doesn't matter to God what they think about it.

Who is right, OEE or the Translators?

If God meant "whole world", He would have used "tebel" instead of "erets." Hebrew makes a distinction between land and the entire world.

Allegorizers do not believe that what Genesis said happened really happened.

If you think allegory is not truth, you have another conflict with God:

Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, and the other by a free woman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman, was born according to the flesh: but he of the free woman, was by promise. 24 Which things are said by an allegory. For these are the two testaments. The one from mount Sina, engendering unto bondage; which is Agar: 25 For Sina is a mountain in Arabia, which hath affinity to that Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Why not just accept it as it is?

 

[Hidden In Him]

That description depends on a flat Earth. That's what the people in Mesopotamia thought it was. A flat earth, covered by a dome above which was water and then heaven. It's like we would say the "sun went down." It doesn't, but we use that figure of speech. So did people who wrote down the description.

And it doesn't say "earth." It says "erets" (land). If it meant all of the Earth, it would have been "tebel." He said the land was covered, but He did not say the entire world was covered.

Do you believe the word of God or not?

Barbarian, it does not say "the land was covered." You are distorting the word of God. Genesis 7:19 reads, τὸ δὲ ὕδωρ ἐπεκράτει σφόδρα σφοδρῶς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆςκαὶ ἐπεκάλυψεν πάντα τὰ ὄρη τὰ ὑψηλά ἃ ἦνὑποκάτω τοῦοὐρανοῦ.

It covered all the mountains under heaven. So I will ask you again, do you believe what the Bible actually says, Yes or no?

 

[Barbarian]

It covered all the mountains under heaven.

It also says that rain fell through floodgates in heaven. So, I will ask you again, do you believe what the Bible actually says, Yes or no?

If you focus on the parts where God didn't tell us that the Earth is round, or that there aren't gates in the sky where rain falls in, then you've missed the entire message. Why not just accept it as it is, and listen to what He's telling you?

 

[Hidden In Him]

It also says that rain fell through floodgates in heaven. So, I will ask you again, do you believe what the Bible actually says, Yes or no?

Yes, I fully believe it, and now that I have answered you, I will ask you to answer me one more time: Do you believe what the Bible says in Genesis 7:19 that the waters covered all the mountains under heaven, yes or no?

 

[Barbarian]

Yes, I fully believe it, and now that I have answered you, I will ask you to answer me one more time: Do you believe what the Bible says in Genesis 7:19 that the waters covered all the mountains under heaven is true, yes or no?

You still haven't answered whether or not you believe that there are floodgates in the sky through which water falls as rain, as it says in Genesis. Yes or no?

And if it's no, why would are you picking and choosing what you will believe?

Let's be real for a moment. Just as the sun doesn't really go down, even as we say that it does, so are there no floodgates in the sky, and the entire world was not covered by water in the flood. After all, the Bible doesn't say it was.

You see, "all the mountains under heaven" makes sense only on a flat Earth with the dome of heaven above it. God could have pointed out that the Earth is not flat, but didn't. Because that's not the point He was making for us.

Why not just accept it as it is?

 

[KV-44-v1]

do you believe what the Bible actually says,

This guy believes that the literal FIRST Book of the Bible is an allegory.
So he believes that it doesn't say what it says, and is so convinced of his view he claims it's "more like 'not saying what it doesn't say'".

Romans 1:25 :
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

One population of creatures could, under evo worldview, give rise to orcas, jellyfish, sea turtles, bears, walruses and more. In reality, walruses can only make walruses. They do not come from any other creature.

If evolution is true, every animal is technically every animal. Therefore, a walrus could just as easily be a horse or an amoeba. It's not different, it just "looks" different.
The fact that some evo's believe that "every form is a transition form" further advances this point.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This guy believes that the literal FIRST Book of the Bible is an allegory.
So he believes that it doesn't say what it says, and is so convinced of his view he claims it's "more like 'not saying what it doesn't say'".

I can't speak for him as far as what he truly believes. But the fact that he will not answer regarding what he truly believes is disturbing.

 

[reddogs]

As soon as I saw "ladder" I knew AIG was back to inventing stories they want scientists to believe. Evolution is a bush, not a ladder.

Is Lucy related to modern humans? Probably in the same way your aunt is related to you. You aren't a descendant of your aunt, but you are still related.

AIG (perhaps innocently, in ignorance), confuses relationship with direct descent. Lucy is almost certainly not the hominid that gave rise to modern humans.

And Wood seems to be a bit confused about evolutionary theory. Here's a 1990s-derived phylogeny for hominids...

Ladders went out with scala natura.

They cannot find any evolutionary line from the oceans to the land whether animals or man. They try to find a link but have to change it by what the evidence that comes up it seems daily. All just to deny the Creator....

 

[mailmandan]

A Globe Earth.

Isaiah 40:22 - It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Isaiah 40:22 - It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

circle OF. Why circle OF and not "the earth IS a circle"??
From space it looks like a circle. A sphere is, technically, made up of infinite 2D circles.
And what about logistics? Who, working there, operates based on a flat earth??

The flat earth myth was, reportedly, spreaded by athiests at one point, to smear Christians.

God could have 'stretched out' the Heavens at Creation. And what are the Heavens? Is that verse referring to the universe?