[__ Science __ ] The Chicken or the Egg?

[Hidden In Him]

No, and they knew that they didn't. They were aware of Persia, Arabia, The Teutonic tribes, and many other nations not under their control.

Still knit picking. The world belonged to Rome, not the Persians.

Answer my question: Do you think Peter was referring to a local judgment at the end of this passage in verse 7, or a global one?

3 For scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[Barbarian]

Still knit picking. The world belonged to Rome, not the Persians.

Nope. The Persian, Mughal and Han empires were, by themselves, nearly as large as the Roman Empire. As you see, Rome knew about all of those, and "kosmos" was used to describe the empire.

Answer my question: Do you think Peter was referring to a local judgment at the end of this passage in verse 7, or a global one?

Since God never described it as a worldwide flood, one has to conclude that God was right in saying only that "land" was flooded.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Since God never described it as a worldwide flood, one has to conclude that God was right in saying only that "land" was flooded.

Barbarian, you are dodging. For the THIRD time, please answer the question.

Do you think Peter was referring to a local judgment at the end of this passage in verse 7, or a global one?

3 For scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian, you are dodging. For the THIRD time, please answer the question.

I've answered you twice. God never said the whole world was flooded. He repeatedly avoided using the word "world." And Peter used the same word that Mark used for the Roman empire.

Do you think Peter was referring to a local judgment at the end of this passage in verse 7, or a global one?

Confusing the Flood and Judgement is a major error. Judgement will be universal, and not limited to some portion of land or even the whole Earth.

 

[Barbarian]

Still knit picking. The world belonged to Rome, not the Persians.

For centuries, the empires of Rome and China ruled over half the ancient world’s population. Both states had sophisticated governments, commanded large, well-disciplined armies, and held vast expanses of land under their control. Thus, it is not surprising that the enormous wealth and demands of the growing population resulted in the establishment of a lucrative transcontinental trade route — the famous Silk Road.

For hundreds of years, this complex trade network — consisting of land and sea routes — allowed for an unprecedented exchange of goods between the two realms. The goods exchanged included Chinese silk — which was highly prized among the Roman elites, including the imperial family. Yet, the two empires remained only vaguely aware of each other’s existence, with only a few attempts to establish direct contact. Vast distances, inhospitable territory, and most importantly, a powerful and hostile state right in the middle of the Silk Road, prevented the two empires from establishing successful communication, which would have dramatically changed the direction of world history.

Ancient Rome and Ancient China: Did They Ignore Each Other?

Rome and China were ancient superpowers. Their two empires used the famous Silk Road for centuries, exchanging valuable goods, but they remained largely ignorant of each other.

www.thecollector.com

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've answered you twice.

No, you didn't, LoL.

But be advised. A rule was recently being discussed about making incessant dodging and evasion a punishable offense, because it's rude, inconsiderate and disingenuous. If any reports come in that you are doing the same thing with them that you are doing with me, this exchange will likely come up.

 

[Barbarian]

But be advised. A rule was recently being discussed about making incessant dodging and evasion a punishable offense, because it's rude, inconsiderate and disingenuous.

You seem to have confused pointing out the flaws in your argument with "dodging and evasion." So far, you've failed to address the fact that Mark used "kosmos" to describe the Roman Empire, which, as you now realize was a fraction of the known Earth at the time.

Which explains why in Koine Greek, scripture is consistent with God's word in Genesis, nowhere saying that the world (tebel) was flooded.

You should address that issue, rather than talking about how Judgement will be.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You seem to have confused pointing out the flaws in your argument with "dodging and evasion."

You made the statement that scripture in no way says that the flood was global, so I asked you if the parallel judgment Peter was alluding to about the heavens and the earth being reserved for fire was global as well, given that if the former was not global his argument would make no sense.

Your response was to dodge me three times in a row.

I warned you that this practice was rude, inconsiderate and disingenuous, and that a rule was being discussed to forbid it.

That rule just went into effect. I suggest you engage others more respectfully going forward. The next ban will be for much longer.

Blessings,
- H

 

[onlysaved]

No, it says the land (erets) was flooded, not the world (tebel). "Erets" can mean "some land", "hereabouts", a specific nation, (Erets Israel) or any number of things. But if God meant "world", He would have said "world."


Only our direct ancestors were given immortal souls by God. H. erectus would have been an entirely different species, and yes, they evolved in Africa. The large number of transitionals between H. erectus and other human species makes it clear that the story is pretty complex.

But as your fellow YE creationist, Dr. Kurt Wise admits, the hominid transition is among the "very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory." And Dr. Wise actually knows the evidence.

Why not just accept it God's way?

Nope... all wrong. There has only ever been one human race and that the descendants of Adam and Eve, who's only source of DNA was from God no other primates have anything to do with it. There has been no evolution in human history.

God made Adam as an adult Human being as an independent being entirely separate from all the rest of his creation. No species has anything to do with human ancestry. Ancestors.

Furthermore God created all animals and plants after their own kinds no animal has ever switched kinds.
A fish never became an amphibian and so on. Regardless what any biologists or anthropologist says they can prove. And while we're on it. There are only two genders.

More importantly, God never used "world" (tebel) to describe the extent of the flood, using "land", which did not mean the whole Earth.

Most important the CONTEXT in which the word is used determines the meaning of the word not, the specific word used. This is true in both the creation and flood narratives.

When God created the heavens and the earth, He meant the whole earth, our whole globe and all the stars everywhere. He did not mean he created a patch of ground.

Again science is obligated to obey God's word not the other way around.

 

[BeyondET]

First of all the Bible doesn't say that at all.. second of all if one needed to know the ins and outs of creation then Genesis would have a more detailed account.

The Bible is pretty direct on why the account is the way it is.

The whole world couldn't contain all the books needed to account for all the ins and outs.

 

[BeyondET]

You made the statement that scripture in no way says that the flood was global, so I asked you if the parallel judgment Peter was alluding to about the heavens and the earth being reserved for fire was global as well, given that if the former was not global his argument would make no sense.

- H

Technically if Peters argument is parallel yet nothing happened to the heavens during the flood. Then his argument would make no sense as well. It appears they are not parallel in every sense.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Technically if Peters argument is parallel yet nothing happened to the heavens during the flood. Then his argument would make no sense as well. It appears they are not parallel in every sense.

Ah! An answer! Blessings to you, LoL.

Actually, though non-creationists will balk at it, the new earth theory (at least among some I've read, and I subscribe to it as well) is that the reasons the fountains of the great deep were opened up, causing the great flood (see Genesis 7:11) was because this is when the earth's axis was thrown off kilter, and the gravitational pull created by it caused the tectonic plates to open up. Not something I wish to debate as it is unprovable, nor do I believe in wasting time doing so. But I believe this is what produced what astronomers now describe as axial precession, or the drifting of some stars to no longer being seen in the Southern Hemisphere night sky as they were in centuries past. This is referred to in the Jewish and Christian texts as symbolic of what happened to the angels, in that they became "wayward stars" who abandoned the original estates set for them by God in the heavens (see Jude 1:13, a letter in which he quotes the Book of Enoch, which deals with the subject more extensively).

So according to the ancient Judea-Christian tradition, the heavens were in fact altered, and in a very dramatic way that effected the entire planet; not as dramatic as what will happen in the second judgement, but exceedingly powerful nonetheless.