Of coarse and I still say 'so what'.
Yes, which was my point about your lack of careful consideration on the issue.
I don't see swiping a microchip glove as being anything different than swiping a credit card.
The problem isn't really that one is worse than the other, but that there is a definite pattern being illustrated by both. From the invention of gold coins, to coins of lesser value, paper money, cheques, debit cards, credit cards, smart cards, internet banking, smart phone banking, contactless tap-card banking, wrist-band banking, glove banking, and microchip implant banking, money has been evolving for thousands of years. People have a long history with trusting money as their source of material provision, their source of life, so much so that many people honestly believe they'd die if money did not exist. Obviously this is not true and it's a slap in the face of the creator.
There is more involved in the 'mark of the beast' then a financial system.
And yet, the financial issue is the one issue you simply will not address. Lets say a guy has a problem with alcohol. His family tries to confront him on the issue, but instead he only wants to talk about how he will change all his other problems like chewing with his mouth open, or changing his socks more often, or taking out the trash etc. Is he really dealing with the core issue, or just making up "reasonable" arguments to avoid the problem?
You see, you can always use this kind of argument to side-step the issue; "there is more to it than that" and you can feel justified because usually there really is more than just one way to view any particular issue especially when spirituality is involved. There is no allegory or metaphor in this prophecy. There is no hyperbole. It is a very simple, straight forward description; a "mark" in the hand to control buying and selling. People who take the Mark show their loyalty (or worship) to the AC. People who refuse the Mark show their loyalty (or worship) to God, just like Jesus taught when he said God is one master and money is the other master.
I believe you said we were afraid. Worry naturally comes along with fear, in my experience.
Yes, your arguments do sound like they are being made in fear. However, you suggested that *I* was promoting fear/worry. I asked you to show where I was doing so but it seems you've chosen to repeat your claim rather than provide the evidence. I made the point about you providing evidence to support your claim, not because I needed to be convinced, but because I was hoping the realization that you could not support your claim with evidence would cause you to question why you would make such a claim in the first place. I don't mind disagreement, but I do prefer that there be reason behind the disagreement; that's just part of reasonable debate.
Sinthesis claimed I was promoting hysteria, but he won't say how. You claimed I was promoting fear, but you won't say how. This in itself should be evidence that there is a problem in your reasoning, not in a point-scoring way, but as a legitimate part of the debate we are having. I would be fine for you to challenge me in the same way; if I draw a conclusion about your motives and you ask me to provide evidence to support that conclusion, you would have a legitimate case for me being unreasonable if I refused to do so.
But attempting to explain this point to you puts me in a kind of catch22 or paradox because, by definition, an irrational person will not see the irrationality of their argument...unless they have a fairly strong commitment to seeing the truth about themselves even when it works against them. I think perhaps this is the strong delusion and the "searing" of the conscience that Paul talked about and why Jesus talked about, "having eyes they see not and having ears they hear not".
You are taking scripture and interpreting it as the rabbis do when they think that God was telling them to tie little boxes, with Torah inside, to their foreheads and the left hand. That is not what He said at all. He was talking about writing His law on their minds and hearts, a form of worship.
Yes, God's laws should be written in our hearts but I wonder if you can see just how confused you've made the issue here. We are talking about the Mark of the Beast, and yet your argument against the description of the Mark is to refer back to God's laws in our heart as though "God's laws in the heart" somehow makes the Mark prophecy non-existant or obsolete. Can you see how you've just avoided the issue again?
God's laws should be written in our heart, yes, but the AC is only interested in perverting that concept so he makes a counterfeit to the spiritual by introducing a physical Mark to control material provision, the basic necessities of life. If you want to buy and sell, you must use his Mark and doing so is the sign to both God and the world where your loyalty really is.
So those who follow the beast/worship him have his law written on their minds/forehead or on their RIGHT hand. They don't know God or they have rejected Him and His law.
In other words, it's fine to take a microchip implant in the hand to continue buying and selling so long as you "believe in your heart" that you are not worshipping the beast? All your spiritualized interpretation does is to make the warning about "buying and selling" of no effect.
But ok, lets say your interpretation has genuine merit; how do you apply it? How do you determine when someone is "following the beast by having his law written on their minds/forehead or on their RIGHT hand" and how does that interpretation relate to buying and selling?
What you are saying is that a believer could be tricked by a man into rejecting their salvation, rejecting the blood of Christ, without them knowing that they are doing it. I say that is hogwash and a lie from the pit.
Esau was tricked into rejecting his birthright and all for a bowl of soup; materialism. God allowed it to happen because it was a choice Esau made of his own free will, just like he will allow all people today to make a similar choice even though trickery will be involved. The heart is deceitful above all things; who can know it? We all have the ability to trick ourselves. We lie to ourselves often, everyday about a myriad of issues. We often choose not to see the badness in ourselves. Jesus warned that we should watch carefully lest our crown be snatched away from us, but what you've suggested is nearly the opposite.
The deception related to the Mark isn't that a Christian's salvation is somehow taken from them by force, but rather that they reject their salvation by choosing to believe a lie just like Esau. Remember the example I previously listed regarding the warning Jesus gave about a time when people will kill God's servants thinking they are doing God a service?
And then there are several examples Jesus gave about the "Lord, Lord" people standing at the gates wanting to be let in, but Jesus will say he never knew them. These are people who clearly think of themselves as believers and yet, despite their apparent faith in Jesus, he will still reject them utterly. Were they tricked or did they just choose to believe a lie about what Jesus did or did not want from them as followers? Probably both, but in the end it's a difference without a distinction.
Both God's Holy spirit and deception can work in extremely subtle ways and both are constantly attempting to influence us throughout our lives. Sometimes we choose to hear and sometimes we choose to ignore.
Millions of Christians around the world will end up taking the Mark simply because they've convinced themselves that the Mark will be some spiritualized attitude in their heart and of course, along with the love of money, the average Christian will never admit to themselves their problems with dependence on materialism if it means prying them from the comforts which materialism can provide. Because they relegate nearly all spiritual disciplines to "an attitude of the Heart", and because the "heart is deceitful above all things" the two end up mixing together into conveniently excusing themselves from any kind of accountability requiring genuine change while still feeling soothed and righteous in their position. Strong delusion indeed!
Perhaps when this kind of person stands before God and he asks them why they took the Mark, they can plead ignorance and argue about how they didn't know, but God's spirit is sharper than a two edged sword slicing deep down into the soul. He will divine the truth from the deception lurking in the deepest parts. Perhaps he will decide the ignorance is genuine and have mercy, but then again a person would need to be very nearly spiritually dead or clinically mentally challenged not to have SOME realization about the nature of greed, it's relation to buying and selling, and our relationship to those issues. The person who is spiritually dead probably got that way from rejecting truth anyway (probably on many occasions over time) and the person who is mentally challenged can hardly be held responsible for what they have no control over.
