The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

[Deborah13]

What's significant here is that you didn't respond to my comments about how you added all that stuff about proclamations and oaths to the prophecy.

Oh but I did, it's called Worship, bowing down.
I believe that when I repented and declared Jesus my Lord and my Savior, I was making a promise, a proclamation, and oath of allegiance to Him.

If I were you I'd be more concerned about Christians flocking to Jerusalem to make blood sacrifices in a temple built with human hands. The blood of bulls and goats for atonement.

We will not agree so I will not keep trying to explain.
Blessings

 

[john darling]

I believe that when I repented and declared Jesus my Lord and my Savior, I was making a promise, a proclamation, and oath of allegiance to Him.

The good samaritan didn't make any oaths, and yet Jesus still used him as an example of the kind of person God is looking for. We don't need oaths and proclamations to be loyal to God nor do we need them to be disloyal. The prophecy doesn't say anything about this kind of thing. It only says the Mark will be used to control buying/selling and makes a link between taking the Mark and worship of the Beast.

We show who we worship by who we give our time to, by who we trust and by who's system of values we choose to follow. This thing about oaths and proclamations is something you've added to the prophecy.

Perhaps "commitment" would be a better way to explain it. Taking the Mark, or rejecting the Mark shows a commitment to one of two masters. At the moment people can be loyal to one master while pretending to serve the other, but the Mark will be definitive proof once and for all.

If I were you I'd be more concerned about Christians flocking to Jerusalem to make blood sacrifices in a temple built with human hands.

You want me to be worried about that? What was all that stuff you said earlier about how worry = fear?

Anyway, as I said earlier, it's not a competition between issues. It's just a matter of be willing to see the issues for what they are. Physical temples vs the spiritual temple definitely has it's place in prophecy but that's another topic.

 

[john darling]

Young means babies, that means they have no chance at salvation.

God isn't stupid.

 

[jasonc]

God isn't stupid.

So why does it say no ONE that has the mark is in Heaven?
ALSO why is there survivors if the account that much control ecominically?

 

[Marilyn C]

if there is prophecy of an antichrist per futurism then there must also be a date of the exact day of the Lord's return. why one earth would Jesus say no man knows the hour then suddenly give them the means to know the hour when he himself didn't know?

Hi jasonc,

Just in reference to the `no man knows...` When Jesus said this He was talking to the people of Israel at that time, knowing that they would be `blinded` & the gentiles in rebellion. However to the Body of Christ the Lord Jesus Christ by His Holy Spirit has said -

`But you, brethren, as NOT in darkness, so that this day should overtake you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)
`...but exhorting one another, & so much more AS YOU SEE the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

Hope that helps. Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

So why does it say no ONE that has the mark is in Heaven?
ALSO why is there survivors if the account that much control ecominically?

Hi jasonc,

As the control is only for 3 1/2 years then people would be able to hide etc. It would take a while for the police & armies to find people. Remember there will be a lot of chaos & probably tribal groups. Also children, the elderly & the sick would not need a mark as others would be buying for them. As john darling said, that God isn`t stupid. It really is a matter of knowingly consenting to align yourself with the `beast,` the world leader & against God.

Marilyn.

 

[jasonc]

Hi jasonc,

As the control is only for 3 1/2 years then people would be able to hide etc. It would take a while for the police & armies to find people. Remember there will be a lot of chaos & probably tribal groups. Also children, the elderly & the sick would not need a mark as others would be buying for them. As john darling said, that God isn`t stupid. It really is a matter of knowingly consenting to align yourself with the `beast,` the world leader & against God.

Marilyn.

problem , cant witness nor hide easily in some states, countries, that and well why does jesus warn of signs of his return that must also allow for the KNOWING of the very day he returns?
3.5 years and we will know the day. media will surely broadcast that.

 

[jasonc]

Hi jasonc,

Just in reference to the `no man knows...` When Jesus said this He was talking to the people of Israel at that time, knowing that they would be `blinded` & the gentiles in rebellion. However to the Body of Christ the Lord Jesus Christ by His Holy Spirit has said -

`But you, brethren, as NOT in darkness, so that this day should overtake you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)
`...but exhorting one another, & so much more AS YOU SEE the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

Hope that helps. Marilyn.

uhm, so that means the entire chapter matthew 24 is written to them or us? if its them then well YOU have a problem. for some standing HERE shall not see death till the son of man returns. where are those old saints.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi jasonc,

Interesting question there bro. We can see that Matt. 24 was written to Israel & being blinded then the Lord will come as a thief to them. As regards -

`Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James & John his brother, brought them up on a high mountain by themselves, & was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, & His clothes became as white as the light.` (Matt. 16: 28 - 17: 1 & 2)

Thus we see that Jesus was referring to Peter, James & John seeing Him in His regal glory - His kingdom power & glory on the Mount of transfiguration.

Hope that helps. Marilyn.

 

[jasonc]

Hi jasonc,

Interesting question there bro. We can see that Matt. 24 was written to Israel & being blinded then the Lord will come as a thief to them. As regards -

`Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James & John his brother, brought them up on a high mountain by themselves, & was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, & His clothes became as white as the light.` (Matt. 16: 28 - 17: 1 & 2)

Thus we see that Jesus was referring to Peter, James & John seeing Him in His regal glory - His kingdom power & glory on the Mount of transfiguration.

Hope that helps. Marilyn.

uhm now that isn't the case. there are other references. look up matthew 17?. so if isreal's is temple was gone how can that ever be back just so that it be desolate again? that was before he said that. in matthew 24!
matthew 16
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom

uhm ok the transfiguration isn't the end, so its a preterist position you are arguing?
or how that about what was said to annais. ye shall see coming in the clouds..

jesus didn't die then come back prior to the transfiguration

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi jasonc,

Now you said -

uhm now that isn't the case. there are other references. look up matthew 17?. so if isreal's is temple was gone how can that ever be back just so that it be desolate again? that was before he said that. in matthew 24!

I`m not quite sure what you are saying there, bro. Can you say which scripture & what you mean please?

Marilyn.

 

[Malachi]

I have never heard that theory before.

It is pretty far-fetched.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi jasonc,

I see we are getting far off topic. However if you want to continue this conversation, you may like to start another thread.

Marilyn.

 

[reba]

Jason off topic


Added: Marilyn you are new so i feel i should SPLANE my laugh...

Jason or i can derail a thread in a one word post... :neutral

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi reba,

I think it was me also as I pointed out the `not in darkness,` scripture, which led to ........

Thanks for the insight, though. Marilyn.

 

[john darling]

So why does it say no ONE that has the mark is in Heaven?

Children have limited ability to process the right and wrong of their own actions. This is especially true for infants but still relevant for older children. It's difficult to say at what age a child becomes old enough (or experienced enough) to understand the lessons behind the mark and therefore be capable of making the kind of decision which the Mark is aimed at forcing people to make; God or money.

But God is able. He can look at the heart of each individual and make his own judgment on the motivations behind why people take the Mark. An infant or toddler will not understand the concept of worry about material needs; they simply assume that their needs will be met which is probably at least part of the reason why Jesus talked about becoming like little children (i.e. trusting that God will meet our needs). It will be similar to people with a mental challenge; if they are not able to understand the issues God will know and judge according to what he thinks is fair in the context.

ALSO why is there survivors if the account that much control ecominically?

I'm guessing you are asking how there can be people who survive if they reject their only means of buying/selling (i.e. the Mark). Jesus addressed this issue, too, by promising that God will take care of anyone who steps out in faith and seeks his kingdom first. There is no specific blueprint or rule book to list exactly how God will provide in every circumstance, but it still works.

Consider the early disciples. Jesus wanted them to understand this same lesson so he sent them out into the world, commanding them not to take any food, money or extra clothing (Luke 10:4). Later, he asked them if they lacked anything when he sent them out into the world with nothing and they said, "no" (Luke 22:35). He told them, "the laborer is worthy of his hire". God is our employer now and we are the laborers. The creator of the universe will take care of us if we work for him.

He said the whole world runs after what they will eat, drink, and wear, but that we should not be like them. He asked us to consider the birds and flowers specifically because they do not work for money, and yet God still feeds and clothes them. He said that we have a choice between working for two masters; one master is God and the other master is mammon (money and the things money can buy). He said we will love one and despise the other (Matthew 6:24-34).

We show our contempt for God's kingdom of love/sharing when we demand payment for our help. In the same way, we show our contempt for the monetary system when we refuse to force payment.

 

[Deborah13]

john darling
Who will believe the lie?

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[jasonc]

Children have limited ability to process the right and wrong of their own actions. This is especially true for infants but still relevant for older children. It's difficult to say at what age a child becomes old enough (or experienced enough) to understand the lessons behind the mark and therefore be capable of making the kind of decision which the Mark is aimed at forcing people to make; God or money.

But God is able. He can look at the heart of each individual and make his own judgment on the motivations behind why people take the Mark. An infant or toddler will not understand the concept of worry about material needs; they simply assume that their needs will be met which is probably at least part of the reason why Jesus talked about becoming like little children (i.e. trusting that God will meet our needs). It will be similar to people with a mental challenge; if they are not able to understand the issues God will know and judge according to what he thinks is fair in the context.



I'm guessing you are asking how there can be people who survive if they reject their only means of buying/selling (i.e. the Mark). Jesus addressed this issue, too, by promising that God will take care of anyone who steps out in faith and seeks his kingdom first. There is no specific blueprint or rule book to list exactly how God will provide in every circumstance, but it still works.

Consider the early disciples. Jesus wanted them to understand this same lesson so he sent them out into the world, commanding them not to take any food, money or extra clothing (Luke 10:4). Later, he asked them if they lacked anything when he sent them out into the world with nothing and they said, "no" (Luke 22:35). He told them, "the laborer is worthy of his hire". God is our employer now and we are the laborers. The creator of the universe will take care of us if we work for him.

He said the whole world runs after what they will eat, drink, and wear, but that we should not be like them. He asked us to consider the birds and flowers specifically because they do not work for money, and yet God still feeds and clothes them. He said that we have a choice between working for two masters; one master is God and the other master is mammon (money and the things money can buy). He said we will love one and despise the other (Matthew 6:24-34).

We show our contempt for God's kingdom of love/sharing when we demand payment for our help. In the same way, we show our contempt for the monetary system when we refuse to force payment.

I must disagree, I know children at three that are able to know jesus and those who don't. a child doesn't know right or wrong unless we teach, if so then why is there a command to train the child in the way he or she should go. god will see to it that all children will know or not if there is a god. but still that doesn't negate our command.

if you really believed that , tell me then how is that we don't enter into hiding now? there is the debate of if the church is removed or not? if not well seven years is along time. ammo to be bought. so someone will have to steal that. or buy it for you . many a city folk couldn't survive in the wild. I know a lot of those. I can say I have some of that issue. mountain life isn the cold of some countries is often deadly. ie Afghanistan. other less developed areas. trying living in a tent in the middle of a snow storm. homes or harder edifice will have to be built.

 

[Deborah13]

trying living in a tent in the middle of a snow storm.

The Indians lived in tepees. :yes

But 10 days in hunting camp, living in an army tent with a little potbelly stove, below 0 nights, and a couple feet of snow.....10 days was a'plenty for me! Lucky for me, we always took the horses. We don't hunt that way anymore, just day trips.

 

[jasonc]

The Indians lived in tepees. :yes

But 10 days in hunting camp, living in an army tent with a little potbelly stove, below 0 nights, and a couple feet of snow.....10 days was a'plenty for me! Lucky for me, we always took the horses. We don't hunt that way anymore, just day trips.

not all tribes had those. the Seminole tribe didn't. the Cherokee didn't. the pueblo tribe didn't. they had clay and earthen structures. my wifes pattern of painting the home is based on the southwest tribes.

a swamp is well calls for some unique edifice. either way. point Is noted. I had forgotten about some the tribes using those and really its a handful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipi

Cherokee not listed nor Seminole or creek(later the Seminoles). the ais didn't have those and they are the oldest. but well its hot and not needed in this state.