The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

[BigSodaExposer]

The problem with this theory is (though grace-haters think otherwise) that Solomon was a saved man. He is in heaven with the saints saved by grace. He fell yes. We all fall. But Solomon has nothing to do with antichrist. He was loved by God (Neh 13:26). Nothing can seperate us from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39). Scripture says that God is the author of our salvation. If he lost salvation, that means God stopped writing. God is no indian-giver (Romans 11:29). We see that he had repented, and turned to God. We can get the big picture by reading ecclesiastes, where he in essense says "Money, palaces, fine foods, large gardens, hundreds of sexy wives - they're vanities. They've become repulsive. God is what I really need".

Try looking at Nimrod. He may have some links to the Antichrist. But not Solomon.

How could he be saved? (Edited, A&T Guidelines: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

 

[YosefHayim]

Your basing alot of Nimrod info on what? The bible says extremely little about Nimrod.

I'm basing it off scripture Andrews history.

We know that Nimrod built babylon.

The scriptures say he was a mighty hunter before the LORD.

And it may be remarked, that, as Nimrod and Bacchus are the same, as before observed, one of the titles of Bacchus is "an hunter". Cedrenus (r) says, that the Assyrians deified Nebrod, or Nimrod, and placed him among the constellations of heaven, and called him Orion; the same first discovered the art of hunting, therefore they joined to Orion the star called the dog star. However, besides his being in a literal sense an hunter, he was in a figurative sense one, a tyrannical ruler and governor of men. The Targum of Jonathan is;"he was a powerful rebel before the Lord;''and that of Jerusalem,"he was powerful in hunting in sin before the Lord,''and another Jewish writer (s) says, he was called a mighty hunter, because he was all his days taking provinces by force, and spoiling others of their substance; and that he was "before the Lord", truly so, and he seeing and taking notice of it, openly and publicly, and without fear of him, and in a bold and impudent manner, in despite of him, see Genesis 6:11. The Septuagint render it, "against the Lord"; he intended, as Jarchi's note is, to provoke him to his face:

wherefore it is said; in a proverbial way, when any man is grown mighty and powerful, or is notoriously wicked, or is become a tyrant and an oppressor​

http://biblehub.com/genesis/10-9.htm

Also the book of Jasher, referenced in Joshua 10:13, 2 Samuel 1:18, and 2 Timothy 3:8, talks about Nimrod.

But I can only say so much because to talk about the interesting stuff in scripture is strictly forbidden here. Find out what Mr. Horn has to say about Genesis 10:8 which says "And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one (giborrim) in the earth."

 

[childeye]

Hi Deborah. Thanks for showing an interest in the post! Here's the verses from Daniel.

DAN 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

DAN 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Verse 26 talks about the "people of the prince that shall come". Verse 27 talks about a "he" confirming an agreement with "many" for one "week" and in the middle of that week he causes the sacrifices to cease. From a biblical point of view, the sacrifices can only happen in that one temple. The sacrifices cannot cease if they don't begin and they cannot begin if there is no temple.

I also believe that this prophecy has a duel meaning referring to both Jesus and the AC since both are princes in their own way. Jesus is the prince of princes, but Satan is also referred to as the prince of this world 3 separate times (jn 12:32, 14:30, 16:11). Verse 25 specifically mentions the messiah, but verse 27 talks about this prince spreading abominations. There are two princes here each with a different role, though their behavior overlaps in similar ways.

For example, while Satan makes an agreement with many (i.e. the Jews) to rebuild the physical temple in Jerusalem, the other prince (Jesus) makes an agreement with many (144k of his faithful followers) to organize them into his spiritual temple, for one "week". Another bit of supporting evidence for this concept of a physical temple vs a spiritual temple is Rev. 11:8, where the angel refers to Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt, (i.e. spiritually desolate). Paul talks about how God does not live in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48,17:24), but rather how we (the people) are God's temple now. Jesus talked about how the kingdom of Heaven is inside the people and does not come with observation (like buildings, Lk 17:20-21).

In the middle of the week, the AC profanes the physical temple in some shocking way, but the real abomination is what he does to the spiritual temple, by making war with the saints for 3.5 years, or as the Revelation puts it (they shall trod the holy city underfoot for 42 months). 42 months = 3.5 years.

So, one fairly reliable way for determining the identity of the AC will be to carefully examine whomever it is who finally brokers and agreement to rebuilt the temple in Jerusalem.

For what it's worth, I think your posts on this subject are solid.

 

[john darling]

For what it's worth, I think your posts on this subject are solid.

Hey thanks for that, CE.

 

[Gregg]

First we see the verse that unravels the bible -

Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Who had wisdom and understanding?

1 Kings 3:12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee."

2 Chronicles 1:11-12 "
And God said to Solomon, Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that thou mayest judge my people, over whom I have made thee king:12 Wisdom and knowledge is granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that have been before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like."

Who had the number 666?

1 Kings 10:14 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,"

God gives it to us again just in case we missed it and was asleep.

1 Chronicles 9:13 "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred and threescore and six talents of gold;"

Thus the beast was a MAN (KJV), and that man was king Solomon.

1. It's not 'who had wisdom and understanding' as you say. But, it is "let him that has [ἔχων] understanding" (Rev 13:18). ἔχων is the present active participle nominative of εχω. John is not addressing or referring to Solomon ['had' as in past tense], but someone present or future to John.

2. Solomon may have had 666 talents of gold, but what does that have to do with Solomon's name? Does 'gold' equate to 'name'?

1 Kings 3:12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

According to that King Solomon will return. As the great king, the antichrist, the man of sin.

You are interpreting "neither after thee shall any arise" as if arise was referring to rising from the dead. "Arise" means to physically stand up, or metaphorically to attain to something; here as to attain the degree of wisdom that Solomon was given. Kings 3:12 says that no one living after Solomon will have a wisdom like his.

Nothing in 1Kings 3:12 indicates or insinuates that Solomon will rise from the dead and become the Antichrist.

 

[Gregg]

Here are a few people whose name has the number equivalent of six hundred sixty six:

Joseph Biden's name in Greek - Γιόζεφ Bιδεν
Benedict (265th pope?) - Βενέδικτος (meaning 'blessed one')
Judas Iscariot's - ’Ιούδας ’Ισκαριώτης
Barack Obama - HΜπαράκ Χουσεΐν Ομπάμα β:

that is if he is 1. a junior [Barak Hussein Obama II] to his father [Barak Hussein Obama], and 2. his native language is from the Dholo trib in Kenya.
Barack and Barak both mean 'blessed one'.​

Holy Gaius (28th pope?) - Άγιος Γάιος
Condi Rice' name in Greek - Konde Ρύζι, or Kondias Ράις, both spellings equate to 666
Caesar Tony Blair's name and title in Greek - Καισαρα Aνθόνι Βλαιρ

 

[john darling]

Here are a few people whose name has the number equivalent of six hundred sixty six:

Joseph Biden's name in Greek - Γιόζεφ Bιδεν
Benedict (265th pope?) - Βενέδικτος (meaning 'blessed one')
Judas Iscariot's - ’Ιούδας ’Ισκαριώτης
Barack Obama - HΜπαράκ Χουσεΐν Ομπάμα β:

that is if he is 1. a junior [Barak Hussein Obama II] to his father [Barak Hussein Obama], and 2. his native language is from the Dholo trib in Kenya.
Barack and Barak both mean 'blessed one'.​

Holy Gaius (28th pope?) - Άγιος Γάιος
Condi Rice' name in Greek - Konde Ρύζι, or Kondias Ράις, both spellings equate to 666
Caesar Tony Blair's name and title in Greek - Καισαρα Aνθόνι Βλαιρ

Are any of these people likely to broker an agreement to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem?

 

[Gregg]

Are any of these people likely to broker an agreement to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem?

Any one can broker an agreement to rebuild the temple, except for Holy Gaius who is long dead.

It is my understanding that a physical temple will not be rebuilt, as Christ Himself is the temple of God, and we are pillars in it [in Him].

 

[turnorburn]

Are any of these people likely to broker an agreement to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem?

No but this guy is..

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-vatican-deal-on-land-use-said-imminent/

tob

 

[john darling]

No but this guy is..

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-vatican-deal-on-land-use-said-imminent/

Hi Tob. Thanks for the link, though I think I've misunderstood the issue. I didn't see anything in the article relating to rebuilding the Jewish temple, but rather about the Catholics gaining permission to use land they own there in Jerusalem for religious purposes. Am I missing something from the article?

 

[john darling]

Any one can broker an agreement to rebuild the temple, except for Holy Gaius who is long dead.

It is my understanding that a physical temple will not be rebuilt, as Christ Himself is the temple of God, and we are pillars in it [in Him].

Hi Gregg, please see my post #18 on this thread. I gave an interpretation for Dan 9 which includes the rebuilding of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, but not as a good thing. The prophecy talks about 2 princes, one brings in everlasting righteousness while the other brings abominations. The both make an agreement for one "week". I believe one of these princes will be the AC making an agreement with the Jews to rebuild the physical temple, while the other prince will be Jesus making an agreement with 144k of his faithful followers by organizing them into his temple of 12 tribes.

 

[Choir Loft]

First we see the verse that unravels the bible -

Thus the beast was a MAN (KJV), and that man was king Solomon.

1 Kings 3:12 "Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

According to that King Solomon will return. As the great king, the antichrist, the man of sin.

I haven't heard that theory before, but there is much in scripture that points to something like it.

King Solomon was a very unpopular leader. He brutalized his people and drove them mercilessly to complete his building projects. The division of the kingdom following his death was a logical extension of the hatred of the people for his rulership as well as the incompetence of his idiot son Rehoboam.

Where did Solomon get his money? Read the book. Solomon got his money as an arms dealer and there is no more lucrative trade in the world today.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...


(A&T Guidelines: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

 

[john darling]

Where did Solomon get his money? Read the book. Solomon got his money as an arms dealer and there is no more lucrative trade in the world today.

Hi CL. An arms dealer? Hmm, that's interesting. I've not heard that before. Which book are you talking about?

As for Solomon coming back to life? I doubt it. Solomon is considered to be one of the wisest men who ever lived, and yet Jesus only referenced him twice in the gospels, each time saying that he "Jesus" has something much better to offer than what Solomon did, despite his (Solomon's) wisdom and wealth.

(A&T Guidelines: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

 

[john darling]

Ahh, I see. Okay sorry about that. Here are the verses I was thinking of.

Mt 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Mt 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
-----------
Lk 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

 

[Pizza]

Solomon got his money as an arms dealer and there is no more lucrative trade in the world today.

Huh?

 

[n2thelight]

I’m sure that we can agree that it is satan (called Lucifer) being spoken of in (Isa 14:12-16). In that Scripture, in verses 13 & 14 we see that Lucifer is going to do something that we see the antichrist doing in (2nd Thess 2:4)
Isa 14:12-16
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou [satan - antichrist] hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north [the north side of the Temple is always God’s place, the Holy of Holies]:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High [satan is saying that he shall be as Godm.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man [satan referred to as a man] that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms (KJV)

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV) Do you see the correlation of the two persons mentioned in the Isaiah Scripture and the 2nd Thessalonians Scripture? It is one and the same entity, it is satan as the antichrist, his most formidable move ever upon God’s children

 

[Sinthesis]

Actually Isa 14 is about God's promised judgement against ancient Babylon, and was fulfilled when Cyrus conquered the city. See Daniel chapter 5.

Isa 14:4 - That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Isa 14:22 ¶ For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

 

[BigSodaExposer]

I’m sure that we can agree that it is satan (called Lucifer) being spoken of in (Isa 14:12-16). In that Scripture, in verses 13 & 14 we see that Lucifer is going to do something that we see the antichrist doing in (2nd Thess 2:4)
Isa 14:12-16
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou [satan - antichrist] hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north [the north side of the Temple is always God’s place, the Holy of Holies]:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High [satan is saying that he shall be as Godm.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man [satan referred to as a man] that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms (KJV)

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (KJV) Do you see the correlation of the two persons mentioned in the Isaiah Scripture and the 2nd Thessalonians Scripture? It is one and the same entity, it is satan as the antichrist, his most formidable move ever upon God’s children

I don't agree so no. Isaiah 14:1-12 points to Lucifer being the "king of Babylon" (verse 4) and that he was covered in worms (verse 11) which implies that he was not a heavenly Angel, because Jesus said in Luke 20:36 that Angels cannot die.

There fore the king of Babylon was simply a king (a man?)

Galatians 6:3 "For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself."

If Lucifer was the king of Babylon, which king? There are several kings of Babylon listed in the Bible, but Nebuchadnezzar seems to be the most significant, as he was involved in taking down Zedekiah and putting Israel in Bondage.

Jeremiah 25:9 and 43:10 says Nebuchadnezzar was the lords servant.

Jesus said in John 8:44 that the Devil was a murderer and liar from the beginning. IF the "king of Babylon" of Isaiah 14:4 is referring to Nebuchadnezzar, then Lucifer could not possibly be Satan.

Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 give us many names of the dark one - Satan, The Devil, the great dragon, that old serpent.

- That old serpent suggest the lying serpent in the Garden of Eden
- The great dragon suggest Leviathan from the book of Job where we learn "his pride is in his scales" and he is "the one made without fear" and he is "king over all the children of pride"

Something that should be noted, while Satan does appear in the book of Job as being able to enter the throne room with the sons of God before Jehovah, the Bible does not say that he is an Angel. Saying Satan is an Angel that turned bad is an urban myth, and is actually closer to the islamic account of Iblis (shaitan) not kneeling before Adam when Allah commanded all the Angels to kneel before Adam and thus he was driven away from God an enemy.

 

[childeye]

I don't agree so no. Isaiah 14:1-12 points to Lucifer being the "king of Babylon" (verse 4) and that he was covered in worms (verse 11) which implies that he was not a heavenly Angel, because Jesus said in Luke 20:36 that Angels cannot die.

There fore the king of Babylon was simply a king (a man?)

Galatians 6:3 "For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself."

If Lucifer was the king of Babylon, which king? There are several kings of Babylon listed in the Bible, but Nebuchadnezzar seems to be the most significant, as he was involved in taking down Zedekiah and putting Israel in Bondage.

Jeremiah 25:9 and 43:10 says Nebuchadnezzar was the lords servant.

Jesus said in John 8:44 that the Devil was a murderer and liar from the beginning. IF the "king of Babylon" of Isaiah 14:4 is referring to Nebuchadnezzar, then Lucifer could not possibly be Satan.

Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 give us many names of the dark one - Satan, The Devil, the great dragon, that old serpent.

- That old serpent suggest the lying serpent in the Garden of Eden
- The great dragon suggest Leviathan from the book of Job where we learn "his pride is in his scales" and he is "the one made without fear" and he is "king over all the children of pride"

Something that should be noted, while Satan does appear in the book of Job as being able to enter the throne room with the sons of God before Jehovah, the Bible does not say that he is an Angel. Saying Satan is an Angel that turned bad is an urban myth, and is actually closer to the islamic account of Iblis (shaitan) not kneeling before Adam when Allah commanded all the Angels to kneel before Adam and thus he was driven away from God an enemy.

Semantics become an issue, which is why I usually don't write concerning this subject. With that in mind, it depends upon what is the inference drawn from what is said as to what is possible or not possible. In this case, I am talking about Isaiah 14:1-12 which speaks of Lucifer. You point out that angels can't die, yet in verse 11 the person is covered in worms.

Often times scripture uses metaphor to describe eternal perspectives in temporal terms. In this case worms are not literal. The worm that never dies is the corruption that never ceases, hence the fire that is never quenched is that Truth that burns up all lies of deception. Yet how is the deception never ending for Satan? The deception never ceases because all is built upon faith in God's Character and all Satan does is conceive of accusations out of doubt in God's Character. He therefore is covered in worms and the fire is never quenched.

Consequently Satan need not die to be covered with worms in the lake of fire. The grave is also a metaphor for hell or the second death. A place where the torment from unbelief in God never ceases, like a man following an Eternal line, forever trying to prove that somewhere it ends.

 

[john darling]

I'm curious as to what people believe is the significance in knowing the identity of the AC? For example, lets assume the AC is in the world right now and we know his name. What difference would it make?

I'm not looking for any right or wrong answer here, but just curious as to how other people see the information being relevant or important to know.