The Israelis Survived

[Pard]

Has anyone considered the fact that the Israeli people survived? Their neighbors are long dead, but the Israelis prosper on. The Babylonians are destroyed. The Persians are gone. The Egyptians are dead. The Greeks and Romans are only preserved in their books. The Canaanites are history.

You get the point. The only ones to survive all those years were the Israelites. Even after they appeared to be gone they still carried on and managed to pop back into their rightful lands.

Has anyone ever considered that is in itself is an amazing testament to God and His love for His people?

Not only are they still around, but so is their religion, books, and customs.

 

[Michae1]

I read a story once where the question was "Can you prove God exists?"

The reply was "The Jews."

It was a story about how the Jews were God's chosen people.

 

[atmosphere]

Israel... indeed. Good point, fella! this is exciting because I'd thought the same thing about the existence of Judah... the fact that every nation in history that had been conquered are wiped out, yet Israel has thrived in exile is a MAJOR testament of (God)'s promise(s). yes. amazing! Bless the Lord of Hosts

 

[Sinthesis]

Personally I consider this insight foundational to even begin to understand God's plan for humanity. What one derives from this fact, or even the facts of the matter, can be quite telling.

 

[cyberjosh]

I'm totally with you Pard in the spirit of this post, and truly the modern reinstatement of Israel as a nation is indeed a fulfillment of prophecy, but in what sense are you meaning that they survived but not others? They were spread by disapora into all parts of the world and now have european, russian, ethiopian, etc. blood intermixed with their heritage/line (although I must think that God preserved some pure line... but how would anyone know if they were of that line?), and by that observation it should be noted that modern day Egyptians are descendands of their distant ancestors, just as modern day Israelites are descendands of their ancestors, and as modern Arabs are descendands of the tribes of Ishmael.

Or maybe you meant that their nations/empires have not remained but Israel now is the only nation remaining? Which would show that God favors Israel as a nation higher than any of the other nations. If that is what you meant then maybe I said all this unnecessarily.

Just wondering.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Pard]

More in line with your second point. Israel is still around. It occurred to me during my western civ. 1 class today. We were talking about the Egyptians and the Babylonians and how they were HUGE military powers and had giant spheres of control... And yet a sliver of land owned by the Israelis managed to survive while these HUGE kingdoms slipped into the history books.

At the same time, Jewish tradition, culture, religion, language, and history has been amazingly preserved, and yet HUGE kingdoms are gone forever. We don't know their languages, their religions, their cultures, their traditions at all, so Israel survived while none of these other places could even get more then a few tablets of writing into the modern day (Egypt excluded).

 

[cyberjosh]

Cool, I gottcha. That's also cool that you are in western civ. I took a dual credit class in 10th grade for college credit in western civ. I & II and I still have the book and many of my notes today. I use the book fairly often, most recently for studying medieval times and the Reformation. There is plenty on ancient civilizations as well. I minored in history so I love studying it, especially as any of it pertains to Christian or Biblical history. If you ever need book references let me know.

I do want to study more prophecy though which is perhaps my weakest area of study in the Bible. Modern Israel certainly is relevant to the study of OT prophecy so that is a topic of fascination to me.

You should check out the Lamplighter magazine from Lion & Lamb ministries: here. They conveniently make all their magazines free and put them on their site as PDFs. They talk about modern developments in Israel all the time and the relevance of prophecy on modern day Israel. I remember one interesting article that they reported in 2003/2004 (look in their archives) about how Israel was thinking of reinstating the Sanhedrin, and lo and behold in late 2004 the Sanhedrin was recreated! It has no legal authority in the state but it is a religious tribunal to judge on matters of the Jewish faith headed by several rabbis. Were it not for that magazine I would have never known this piece of information, as stuff like that never really makes it overseas in our newspapers. Did anyone else know that the Sanhedrin has been resurrected? See their website here and this detailed article with pictures.

Sorry if that's off topic.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Since you mentioned the collapse of all those ancient nations, have you ever noticed the recurring theme in the OT of God actually causing those enemy nations to rise and actually make them prosper (bless them) so that they could judge Israel, but then were prophesied themselves to decline and fall for being cruel to Israel and for not following YHWH? Isaiah chapter 10 in particular brings this out very clearly, and God basically used Assyria as an instrument of judgment on Israel, but then He also turned it right around on them to judge them for their sins as well. "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger, And the staff in whose hands is My indignation" (Isaiah 10:5; NASB), God uses Assyria as his rod of wrath on other nations, but then pronounces woe on them as well. "So it will be that when the Lord has completed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem [i.e when he is done judging his people Israel], He will say, "I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the pomp of his haughtiness" (Isaiah 10:12).

And God actually makes it clear that He made other nations to rise like Israel, thus Israel has no reason to be prideful or boast in themselves, but God however notes Israel's special place with Him:

7 Are you not like the people of Ethiopia to Me,
O children of Israel?” says the LORD.
“ Did I not bring up Israel from the land of Egypt,
The Philistines from Caphtor,
And the Syrians from Kir?

8 “ Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are on the sinful kingdom,
And I will destroy it from the face of the earth;
Yet I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,”
Says the LORD.
(Amos 9:7-8; NKJV)

God promised to preserve them only because of His own mercy, thus He said:

4 Since you were precious in My sight,
You have been honored,
And I have loved you;
Therefore I will give men for you,
And people for your life.
(Isaiah 43:4; NKJV)

YHWH does it for His own name's sake, not for Israel who were a stiff-necked people:

8 You have not heard, you have not known
Even from long ago your ear has not been open,
Because I knew that you would deal very treacherously;
And you have been called a rebel from birth.
9 " For the sake of My name I delay My wrath,
And for My praise I restrain it for you,
In order not to cut you off.
10 "Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver;
I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.
11 "For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act;
For how can My name be profaned?
And My glory I will not give to another.
(Isaiah 48:8-11)

It is also interesting to note though that Rabshakeh, the Assyrian general, when shouting up to the Jews and to King Hezekiah outside of Jerusalem on Senacherib's behalf, says this:

"Now therefore, come make a bargain with my master the king of Assyria, and I will give you two thousand horses, if you are able on your part to set riders on them. "How then can you repulse one official of the least of my master's servants and rely on Egypt for chariots and for horsemen?
"Have I now come up without the LORD'S approval against this land to destroy it? The LORD said to me, 'Go up against this land and destroy it.'"'"
(Isaiah 36:8-10; NASB)

Rather than being just empty boasting I believe that what Rabshakeh said is actually true: that YHWH himself gave Sennacherib approval to come against the Judeans and destroy their cities in judgment. So what Sennacherib is really saying to them is "Why do you think your God will save you when he sent me here to subdue you?". However in this, Sennacherib becomes too prideful and presumptuous, and he does not know the heart and mercy of God to forgive the penitent (and is not aware of Israel's special place with God as shown in the scriptures above). Thus after Hezekiah prayed to God in the Temple YHWH supernaturally slaughtered the Assyrian army in judgment. The sword of judgment is double edged. Even though Israel was repeatedly judged every nation that stood against her has fallen in turn. That is what is truly amazing.

God Bless,


~Josh

 

[jasoncran]

Has anyone considered the fact that the Israeli people survived? Their neighbors are long dead, but the Israelis prosper on. The Babylonians are destroyed. The Persians are gone. The Egyptians are dead. The Greeks and Romans are only preserved in their books. The Canaanites are history.

You get the point. The only ones to survive all those years were the Israelites. Even after they appeared to be gone they still carried on and managed to pop back into their rightful lands.

Has anyone ever considered that is in itself is an amazing testament to God and His love for His people?

Not only are they still around, but so is their religion, books, and customs.

ya think. i'm of the stock of abraham.

what amazes me is how the athiestic jew(by lineage) will often deny our God yet kling to that promise. a few months ago i caught one doing just that, and i reminded him that its odd for him to believe that the promise of God to isreal and yet deny that Gods existance.

keep him in your prayers.

 

[Pard]

I know exactly what you mean. In fact I was reading out of one book in the Tanakh just last night and I recall thinking how God set these empires against the Jews to judge them and then later delivered the Jews from these empires as a way of saying, "Hey, you guys need me to get stuff done, so stop worshiping false idols and being sinful." It might have been in Jeremiah, but I forget where exactly.

The best example is probably Egypt. I mean Egypt became prosperous and such BECAUSE God guided them through hard times like famines and they became rich when they stored up their grain in the good times. That directly effected Egypt's power and military might. Then in two or three chapters later God sends plagues on Egypt and rescues the Israelis from the pharaoh. So that is probably one of the best examples of what you are saying.

And yes I recall hearing about the Sanhedrin, actually. Someone was talking about them in the End-Time section.

 

[cyberjosh]

Sorry, I kept editing my last post. I made it longer.

 

[cyberjosh]

I know exactly what you mean. In fact I was reading out of one book in the Tanakh just last night and I recall thinking how God set these empires against the Jews to judge them and then later delivered the Jews from these empires as a way of saying, "Hey, you guys need me to get stuff done, so stop worshiping false idols and being sinful." It might have been in Jeremiah, but I forget where exactly.

Exactly. And I think the biggest personal lesson I gain out of this, mixed with my understanding from personal experiences, is that sometimes when we become sinful in our own lives that God can send our basest enemies to rebuke us. And how humiliating would it be if it were the atheistic bully at school calling us out on our actual faults, or God letting us fall into a bad situation that only gets worse the more we try to get out of it until we turn to Him? This is also perhaps similar to Paul's "thorn in the side" to keep him from being prideful.

When I notice bad things happening to me I almost immediately ask myself if it is because of some personal sin in my life. If it is not then I consider it as trial like Job went through and among the expected trials that any Christian will have. But it is a marvelous and mysterious truth that God can use godless enemies of the faith to judge Christians. Let judgment begin in the house of God, then we would not be judged by the world which has no mercy.

The best example is probably Egypt. I mean Egypt became prosperous and such BECAUSE God guided them through hard times like famines and they became rich when they stored up their grain in the good times. That directly effected Egypt's power and military might. Then in two or three chapters later God sends plagues on Egypt and rescues the Israelis from the pharaoh. So that is probably one of the best examples of what you are saying.

Indeed, I agree.

And yes I recall hearing about the Sanhedrin, actually. Someone was talking about them in the End-Time section.

Interesting, do you remember where? I'd like to read it. Thanks.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[jasoncran]

the thread mystery of mysterious, babylon, the whore who rides the beast. in the end times forum.

 

[Pard]

I agree. Whenever we come against struggle we need to check for things like that. I think every situation God brings us to is a trial, but it depends on how we act towards it. Babylon was a trial for the Jews and so was Egypt.

Here is that thread.

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/mystery-babylon-great-mother-harlots-30906/

 

[cyberjosh]

Thanks Pard (and Jason)!

 

[cyberjosh]

So what is everyone's views on what God thought of non-israelites, the Gentiles, in the OT? Did he love them or not? Why were they not made elect like Israel?

And why did God pick an Aramean (Deuteronomy 26:5)? What of Israel's pagan forefathers (Joshua 24:2)?

 

[jasoncran]

the promises given to abraham was the reason that God didnt wipe the hebrew all at once.

 

[Sinthesis]

So what is everyone's views on what God thought of non-israelites, the Gentiles, in the OT? Did he love them or not?

Jon 4:11 - And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and [also] much cattle?​

I'm not sure He's equating them with cattle, but then again there is:

Ecc 3:19 - For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.​

I suppose I would say that He did/does love those who, left to their own devices, had no preeminence above beasts. Thus He separated out a people through whom He would come that all might be saved.

 

[jasoncran]

i am curious to what is the fate of the gentiles that never heard of yhwh in the ot times.

 

[Pard]

God loved the gentiles too.

He destroyed gentile civilizations because they were evil and sinned, not because they were gentile. He destroyed Jewish cities also. Though He favored Jews and such because they were His elect.

Noah was a gentile. God loved Noah.