The Israelis Survived

[Theofilus]

Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar (Rom. 3:4 NASB)​

No matter how many times we break our promises, God will always keep His. Even though we disobey the requirements of the covenants, God will always keep His part. If He say's it's eternal, it is.

Just like I said before; when one party in an agreement break the agreement it becomes null and void. It does not mean that the other party broke the agreement. So in the same way, when Israel broke their side it was made null and void. So once they did that God was not obligated to do what He said, because His fulfillment was dependent on them fulfilling their part.

I am the network administrator of an elementary school. When I started working there, I signed an contract that stated what my hours would be and what pay I would recieve. Basically it says that I am to arrive at work at a specified time and leave work at another specified time. In return, I will recieve a pay check every month. Now, suppose I come to work an hour late one day then, next time I go to get my pay check, I'm told "We're sorry, but you didn't keep your part of the contract, so we're not obligated to keep ours. You don't get a paycheck this month."

According to your logic, they could do that. Fortunately, the law disagrees. They can deduct from my pay if I don't work all my hours, but they are still obligated to pay me for the hours I do work. Just because I break my part of the agreement doesn't mean that they are free to break their part. They still have to pay me.

Some of God's promises to Israel are indeed conditional on their keeping the commandments, as you point out. But some other promises are unconditional. Even though the Israelites didn't keep the commandments, God will still keep His unconditional promises. His choosing the physical decendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as His people was unconditional. They may not get the blessings that are promised to those who keep the commandments, but they will always be His chosen people. He may chastise them for not keeping His commandments (and He has), but He will never reject them. He will never nullify His eternal unconditional promises to them. And if they repent and start keeping the commandments He gave them, then He will also keep the conditional promises.

Here's something for everyone to think about. God said that the "Old" Covenant was eternal, yet most Christians today say that it has been abolished, either because the Jews didn't or even couldn't keep it or because God replaced it with a new and better covenant. If that's true - if God can just change His mind and say "I've decided to do things differently. Now there's a new way of salvation and anyone who follows My previous instructions is eternally lost" - then how do you know He won't do the same with the New Covenant? In fact, how do we know He hasn't already done that and that Islam or the Bahai faith or something else isn't what we should be following? If God's eternal covenants aren't eternal after all, then we have no assurance of salvation at all.

Could you be more specific and provide a scripture or two, please?

I wasn't talking about scripture. I was talking about the completely unbiblical teachings of most western (I don't know about the others) churches and the unbiblical beliefs of most Christians in the west today. You yourself have said that God's unconditional promises to the Israelites have been nullified because of their disobedience and that His eternal covenant with them has been replaced by another. All I did was take this line of thinking to it's logical conclusion. If God has broken His unconditional promises once, how do we know He won't do it again?

 

[jasoncran]

the promise given to abraham was confirmed by whom?

did both god and abraham walk through the heiffer when it was split?

nope,only the lord did. and that was for the land not the law!

 

[edwin]

I only showed you what God said. It may not be what you are taught but it is very clear from scripture that God told them what He would do IF they did certain things. This means that if they disobeyed God by doing things that they should not do then the agreement is broken.

I suggest you re-read your own post. God NEVER said he would break His covenant with Israel if they transgressed. You keep making these unfounded statements with no scriptural support. Show us a passage that specifically states that God breaks his covenant with Israel if they disobey the Torah.

The terms of the covenant consist of blessings (rewards) that would accrue by obedience and warnings and curses (consequences) that would result from disobedience. Detailed blessings in the wake of obedience are found in Leviticus 26:3-13, in Deuteronomy 11:13-25, and in Deuteronomy 28:1-14. The wages of disobedience are detailed in Leviticus 26:14-39, and again in Deuteronomy 28:15-68. So yes, Israel would suffer for their disobedience (famine, exile, etc.). But nowhere does it state that consequent to disobedience that God breaks or annuls His covenant with Israel. Please show us some verses from the Hebrew Bible which state this.

 

[Strangelove]

The terms of the covenant consist of blessings (rewards) that would accrue by obedience and warnings and curses (consequences) that would result from disobedience. Detailed blessings in the wake of obedience are found in Leviticus 26:3-13, in Deuteronomy 11:13-25, and in Deuteronomy 28:1-14. The wages of disobedience are detailed in Leviticus 26:14-39, and again in Deuteronomy 28:15-68. So yes, Israel would suffer for their disobedience (famine, exile, etc.). But nowhere does it state that consequent to disobedience that God breaks or annuls His covenant with Israel. Please show us some verses from the Hebrew Bible which state this.

Huh?? Is he not allowed to quote the CHRISTIAN Bible??

This is a Christian website ya know.......sheesh.

Is that why you keep the law Edwin? To earn blessings and rewards?

List all the laws you kept last week to God's satisfaction please. Then tell me what rewards and blessings you have accrued because of your WORKS!

Then tell me where Christ or His Aposles say that this kinda thing does you any good.

Cheers.


Doc.

 

[Bazz1040]

I am the network administrator of an elementary school. When I started working there, I signed an contract that stated what my hours would be and what pay I would recieve. Basically it says that I am to arrive at work at a specified time and leave work at another specified time. In return, I will recieve a pay check every month. Now, suppose I come to work an hour late one day then, next time I go to get my pay check, I'm told "We're sorry, but you didn't keep your part of the contract, so we're not obligated to keep ours. You don't get a paycheck this month."

Does the contract states that you will only be paid IF you start on time? If it does then you will not be paid, because that would be what you agreed to. The contract between God and Israel was based on IF they did such and such, then God would do so and so.

 

[Bazz1040]

I suggest you re-read your own post. God NEVER said he would break His covenant with Israel if they transgressed. You keep making these unfounded statements with no scriptural support. Show us a passage that specifically states that God breaks his covenant with Israel if they disobey the Torah.

The terms of the covenant consist of blessings (rewards) that would accrue by obedience and warnings and curses (consequences) that would result from disobedience. Detailed blessings in the wake of obedience are found in Leviticus 26:3-13, in Deuteronomy 11:13-25, and in Deuteronomy 28:1-14. The wages of disobedience are detailed in Leviticus 26:14-39, and again in Deuteronomy 28:15-68. So yes, Israel would suffer for their disobedience (famine, exile, etc.). But nowhere does it state that consequent to disobedience that God breaks or annuls His covenant with Israel. Please show us some verses from the Hebrew Bible which state this.

You keep saying God will not break His Covenant with Israel. The thing is it was already broken by Israel. So your argument is mute.

 

[edwin]

You keep saying God will not break His Covenant with Israel. The thing is it was already broken by Israel. So your argument is mute.

I disagree. God shows His great mercy and compassion even in the face of Israel's transgression. Here are just 2 verses which demonstrate that God has not broken His part of the contract and after all it is He who determines what happens with mankind in the end.

Leviticus 26:44-45 – (44) And despite all this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant with them; for I am the L-rd their G-d. (45) And I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them; I am the L-rd.

Psalms 105:8-10 – (8) He has remembered His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. (9) That which He had made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac; (10) And He established it for Jacob as a law, and for Israel as an everlasting covenant.

 

[Bazz1040]

I disagree. God shows His great mercy and compassion even in the face of Israel's transgression. Here are just 2 verses which demonstrate that God has not broken His part of the contract and after all it is He who determines what happens with mankind in the end.

Leviticus 26:44-45 – (44) And despite all this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant with them; for I am the L-rd their G-d. (45) And I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them; I am the L-rd.

Psalms 105:8-10 – (8) He has remembered His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. (9) That which He had made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac; (10) And He established it for Jacob as a law, and for Israel as an everlasting covenant.

Bye....I'm done.