Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The KJV bible is the only bible that is worth reading.

Josh said:

The kjv bible is indeed the first english bible ever written, and 100% percent accurate, because at that time there were no atheist or other crap that would try to twist the bible, correct me if i'm wrong, the nest version of the bible came out in 1890 something, way after the king james. :nono


At this time it was very different, so no wonder people believe the bible isn't true, few people read the KJV version.



Here is a free resource to the KJV version in a audio mp3 format available for download...


http://www.audiotreasure.com/indexKJV.htm


As of March 6 I'm still on Deuteronomy 25. Have to get caught up, and have about 3 books to go.

Post your thoughts and opinions, this is an open discussion and forum. ;)


And enjoy the mp3 bible.


Don't be decieved, Josh
 
I have to say I disagree. Indeed the KJV was the first English Bible, but newer versions like ESV, NIV and NIRV are no less correct and have not been lost in translation. They have just worded some things differently, so modern society can understand them, because lets face it - we don't speak like it is in the KJV much anymore. I'm not critisising it, I'm just saying that new versions are no less accurate or correct than the KJV. It is still the same God's word.

And I'm sure that there were non-believers at the time of the KJV. There always has been.


Thanks for the link, BTW. :)
 
Before the KJV there was the Geneva, Tyndale, and one other that skips my mind. So the KJV was not the first English version, just the first to become as widespread. The next was the RSV, around 1870ish.
 
Josh said:


The first response was from somebody who was young, more people speak like the kjv than the niv, it's just that there oever 35 years old, which can easily understand the kjv, and the higher IQ, but a lot of people have to use the NIV.

And the second answer, your right.


Don't be decieved, Josh
 
Most of the KJV study Bibles now - like my Scofield lll, give alternate words for the old ones in the margins for the unlearned. Its claimed that the KJV requires a lower level of education to read than the NIV, or other new versions. That is because of the uncommon to the street words, used in the MV's.

After you read the KJV for a while, you get used to the different twist in the use of the English. Then you start talking like it. :D
 
Where I come from, most people use the NIV or ESV. And there's nothing wrong with that.

And BTW, I may be 16 but I can understand KJV very well.

Samuel, what are you getting at?
 
Let me run that again. Most of the MV,s use a higher level of words, than that of the KJV. This makes the argument by some void, because they say they cannot understand the words.

I understand the use of WIst, Wot, Wit, and the like to be unfamiliar. But it only takes once to learn. After you master that, the English is actually simpler in the KJV than the MV's. The syntax is also different, but I really prefer it. :)
 
:D I think Samuel is saying that this statement made by Josh is incorrect:

Joshua ale carter said:
The first response was from somebody who was young, more people speak like the kjv than the niv, it's just that there oever 35 years old, which can easily understand the kjv, and the higher IQ, but a lot of people have to use the NIV.
 
I will admit, I feel the King James is the most reliable translation out there. Nonetheless I have no qualms with reading another version of the Bible such as the New International text.
 
You "feel that" the KJV is the most reliable translation out there. Are your feelings reliable? Shouldn't you have some basis for such feelings?
 
Here is an article I wrote about a year ago which shows how text editors changed the early manuscripts in order to make them consistent with each other or with their theology. The translators of the AV (King James Version) and similar translations used these changed manuscripts as the basis for their translations.

Late Textual Tradition? Or Early Manuscripts?

What are the criteria for obtaining a New Testament Greek edition which approximates that of the original manuscripts prepared by the hands of the writers? Should we trust the tradition of the many text editors of the middle ages? Or should we search for early manuscripts, even fragments, which have come down to us even as early as the first three centuries? Certainly the complete restoration of the Greek New Testament in the form of its original manuscripts is impossible. Most editors attempt to reconstruct the text as closely as possible. Yet there seems to be two distinct approaches to the task. These two approaches lead to results which categorize modern translations into two distinct groups.

For example, consider the translation of a single word in a single New Testament verse: Revelation 22:19. Does the verse state that if any one takes away from the words of Revelation (the book of this prophecy), that God will take away his share in the book of life? Or is it his share in the tree of life that will be taken away? --- Not that this is a theologically significant distinction. That is not the point. The point is that the source of the two different Greek words found in various Greek editions of the New Testament bears testimony to the approach of the editors and consequently of the two different groups of translators. The following translations, hereafter called “Group A†have “book of lifeâ€Â: AV, JB2000, KJ21, NKJV, R Webster, and YLT (which uses the word “scrollâ€Â). The Catholic Douay translation also has “book of lifeâ€Â. But “tree of life†is found in ASV, Darby, ESV, NASB, NIV, RSV, NRSV, Philips, and Rotherham (hereafter called “Group Bâ€Â. But which group is right? Did the apostle John write the Greek word "biblos"? Or did he write the Greek word "xylos"?

Fortunately we have the answer! When Erasmus was preparing his Greek edition of the New Testament, he had only one Greek manuscript of Revelation. Unfortunately the last six verses were missing. So Erasmus consulted the Vulgate and back-translated those verses from Latin to Greek. Thus the first Greek manuscript containing “book of life†came into existence. Erasmus did the best he could with what he had. For he had no complete Greek manuscript of Revelation available to him. But the Greek editors who followed him, Stephanus, Beza, and Elzevir, slavishly followed the translation of Erasmus, rather than consulting the Greek manuscripts which became available. And with the wealth of early Greek manuscripts available in our day, there is no excuse for not rendering the phrase as “tree of life†in the translation. There is no doubt that John had written “tree of lifeâ€Â. So why did Group A translators render the phrase “book of lifeâ€Â? Was not this, evidence of poor scholarship? Or was there a traditional reason for following Erasmus et al. in this? Was there a theological reason, perhaps a theory of inspiration, which required staying with the textual group which later formed the Textus Receptus? This suggestion seems to be supported by what appears to be later textual additions found in group A translations.

In the formation of Textus Receptus, it seems that some person(s) saw the need to “correct†or add to the texts.

We are all familiar with the addition of 1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. NKJV

This is obviously an attempt to get “The Trinity†into the Bible. This verse is found only in eight late manuscripts, four of which have the words in a marginal note. Most of these manuscripts originate in the 16th century. The earliest of them was from the 10th century, but that one does not include the verse in the text, but in a marginal note. No Greek text prior to the 16th century is known to contain the verse. Yet it found its way into Textus Receptus and in every one of the Group A translations (YLT puts it in italics). How could Group A translators have gone against all evidence? If it had been in early Greek texts, surely the 4th century Greek Fathers would have loved to use it during the Trinity debates as scriptural evidence of the Trinity.

A “correction†was made to Luke 2:33. With reference to Jesus, the words “his father and mother†was changed to “Joseph and his motherâ€Â. Presumably it was felt that the former did not do justice to the virgin birth.

In Mark 1:2,3 we read:
As it is written in the prophet Isaiah, "See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way; crying out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,’†NRSV

However, in Isaiah we find only the second part (vs3). The first part is found in Malachi. So the introductory words were changed to “As it is written in the prophets†to take care of the omission. This change, found in Textus Receptus, has been so translated in all Group A translations, and omitted in all Group B translations.

In I Corinthians 6:19,20, we read:
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. .

Now wait a minute. Shouldn’t we glorify Go in our spirit as well? No doubt. So “and in your spirit which are God’s†was added and placed into Textus Receptus as well as all Group A translations. No Group B translation has this addition.

In Acts 8 just after Philip explained the Isaiah passage to the Ethiopian eunuch, we read:

As they travelled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptised?" And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptised him. NIV

Hey, a person shouldn’t be allowed to be baptized just because he wants to, should he? Surely Philip must have told him that he had to believe in Jesus first! So the following sentence (vs 37) was added to the text:

“Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." NKJV

Papyrus 45 from the early 3rd century does not contain this passage. But the Textus Receptus has it, and all Group A translations as well as Douay.

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,†and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.†Romans 13:9 ESV

Let’s see. This would be the last five commandments listed in Exodus 20 if it were not for the fact that one of them is left out. Surely Jesus wouldn’t have forgotten the one about bearing false witness! So shouldn't it be added? Apparently certain editors of Textus Receptus thought so. And so it found its way into the Group A translations as follows:

For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."NKJV

Papyrus 46 from the middle of the second century does not contain this addition.

For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13, 14 NIV

I think I remember a similar passage in Ephesians 1:

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. Ephesians 1:7,8 NIV

Clearly Paul taught that redemption was through the blood of Christ in the Ephesians passage. Why didn’t he do so in the Colossians passage? We’d better make things a little more consistent here:

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13,14 NKJV

An interesting addition is Luke 17:36 “36 "Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left." Strangely enough this verse is found in Douay and all of Group A translations, but is not found in Textus Receptus. I’m not sure how this one got in.

Even in the Old Testament there is a distinct difference between Group A and Group B’s rendition of some passages. Here is an example from Jeremiah. Yahweh said or thought the following concerning Israel:

I thought: After she has done all these things, she will come back to Me. But she did not come back…Jeremiah 3:7 Jewish Study Bible 1985.

The learned Jewish scholars, experts in Hebrew, who translated The Tanakh, so translated this verse. The NASB, ESV, RSV, and NRSV translations are almost identical to that of the JSB quoted above. Others from group B, the ASV, Darby, and Rotherham translate similarly except they do not contain “thought†but “saidâ€Â. That is okay. The Hebrew word usually means “saidâ€Â. But whether God said Israel would return or thought she would return does not make much difference. The point is that what God said or thought Israel would do did not happen! But for some people, that would indicate that God made a mistake or was not omniscient. So someone came up with a solution to that. It was simply changed to a command. Problem solved.

"And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return… NKJV

And so with all the other Group A translations.

In conclusion, I can say only that it would seem that the editors of Group B translations, though they differ from one another in terms of the degree of translational literalness, appear to be interested in what the authors actually wrote rather than maintaining consistency and orthodoxy.
 
KJV is my favorite. I'll state my reasons:

1) It is free from copyright. I can quote (and give out) the whole version on my web site without regards to worrying about giving anyone else credit for "God's Word". I think it's nothing short of blasphemous to paraphrase God's Word and then prevent others from using it due to copyright restrictions. How would you like for someone to copyright your own diary because they retranslated it or paraphrased it? So, my reasoning is that if I can't quote (supposedly) God's Word freely, then maybe it is not really God's Word at all.

2) Although it is not perfectly free from bias, it was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek with no denominational or personal slant to it. These same translations are where we, in turn, get Gematrias and the Bible code. If the wording is retranslated or messed up just a tad, these hidden codes get lost. So that assures me that this is a pure translation.

3) I find it interesting that KJV was translated at the third overturn of the Throne of David (c.f. Ezek 21:27 KJV) as the throne of David was transferred to the British lineage of Kings and this same translation became the benchmark and foundation of the English speaking world. After all, is there any other translation we argue about as much as the KJV? That seems to me that the KJV is KING not to mention the most English enduring translation. I find this an interesting "coincidence".
 
2) Although it is not perfectly free from bias, it was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek with no denominational or personal slant to it.

You can still make such a statement after having read my post: Late Textual Tradition? Or Early Manuscripts? Or is it the case that you didn't bother to read it?

No Bible was translated from "the original Hebrew and Greek", for no originals exist, nor did they exist when the translations were made.

These same translations are where we, in turn, get Gematrias and the Bible code. If the wording is retranslated or messed up just a tad, these hidden codes get lost. So that assures me that this is a pure translation.

You believe that nonsense about Bible codes? Pure superstition.
 
The burden of proof here seems not to lie in whether the AV text, or KJV translators were wrong. But to prove the Alexandrian text, and translators were right. That is always the burden of the new kid on the block, he must prove himself first.
 
samuel said:
The burden of proof here seems not to lie in whether the AV text, or KJV translators were wrong. But to prove the Alexandrian text, and translators were right. That is always the burden of the new kid on the block, he must prove himself first.

What the heck?

Does anyone in this thread besides Paidion have a clue what they're talking about? I'm losing hope for these forums...


Thanks,
Eric
 
You believe that nonsense about Bible codes? Pure superstition.

:biglol

There's one person not into mathematics I see. I'm sure all these statistically small chances are just "coincidence".
 
There's one person not into mathematics I see. I'm sure all these statistically small chances are just "coincidence".

Being an engineer and mathematician myself I can say with quite certainty the "bible code" is junk science. Similar "codes" have been developed from long novels such as War and Peace. Besides, if you really are a student of scripture, you will find that it's not in God's nature to "hide" things from us in cryptic codes. On the contrary, he speaks out to us in no uncertain terms against things like "bible code". It's little more than a modern day form of fortune telling except you use a computer and a ELS matrix array instead of a crystal ball.

Some prophesy in scripture many not be fully understood, I grant you that, but that's due to limited human understanding and it adds an aspect of faith to being a Christian.

But I digress. I want to really comment on the KJV of the bible. Is it the end all be all of bible translations? No, better manuscript evidence has been discovered in the last 150 years that the original authors of KJV did not have access to during their writing. I think tradition and religion is the only thing behind someone stating that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the bible. There are also some that will tell you the only music that should be played in church is hymn music on an organ as well.

I read the KJV version of the bible and enjoy it very much. But I am also aware of translation issues and have to be mindful and always double checking the footnotes on specific text while doing so. I like the KJV but also the NIV, NKJV, NASB, and ESV are great versions as well.
 
wavy said:
What the heck?

Does anyone in this thread besides Paidion have a clue what they're talking about? I'm losing hope for these forums...


Thanks,
Eric

Perhaps I am stupid or unintelligent, but I have always liked the text in which the King James Version was written. Though it has been a long time since I have done some actual study on the written word and history of translations....King James Version, from what I understood was one of the oldest and perhaps closest to the actual written Hebrew or Greek texts that were originally written. So should this be a reflection of my intelligence or lack therof...so be it.

I will not lie though....it really irks me how because I do not have someone's views has that I have no clue what I am talking about... but to each their own.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
I still state that there is no harm in reading the NIV or ESV over KJV. I think it is more on what you prefer to read. I prefer it it modern language, so I choose NIV, and sometimes flick over to ESV. But someone who is a lot older might have been brought up on the older language and might like the KJV a lot more. I don't see a problem either way.
If anything, I believe the NIV and ESV group(group B that Paidion was talking about) are better translations. I agree with what Armour of God said:

Armour of God said:
better manuscript evidence has been discovered in the last 150 years that the original authors of KJV did not have access to during their writing.
 
Back
Top