Bible Study The Law Is a Prison

[Servant_2000]

Now that we live in the New Covenant, we are cursed if we go back to observing the law. (Galatians 3:10) The law was like a prison holding us and protecting us from self-destruction until Jesus came. Now, faith has come, and "we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:23-24)

When Paul chastised the Galatians for allowing the Judaizers (Seventh Day Adventist's of his time) to seduce them into observing Jewish customs he said to them, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?" (Galatians 4:8-10)

But the Galatians had not been Jews-they had been pagans. Yet was Paul asking them why they were "turning back." They weren't turning back to paganism; they were going toward Judaism. To Paul, their slide into keeping the Old Covenant Jewish law and customs was no different from becoming pagan. Either way, they would be enslaved to works.

Paul compares the Old Covenant to Hagar. She and her children are in slavery. But the New Covenant he compares to Sarah. She and her children are free. Paul says, "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." (Galatians 4:24-31)

 

[yesha]

Now that we live in the New Covenant, we are cursed if we go back to observing the law. (Galatians 3:10)

What do you think about those who observe the Law, not because they must, and not to be saved, but rather because now that they are free, they can observe the Law (which they love) as Sons.

When Paul chastised the Galatians for allowing the Judaizers (Seventh Day Adventist's of his time)

Do Seventh Day Adventists believe that circumcision is necessary, or do you mean this in some other sense?

 

[Rick W]

What do you think about those who observe the Law, not because they must, and not to be saved, but rather because now that they are free, they can observe the Law (which they love) as Sons.

Repent:
Change the mind especially concerning sin. In this way one may turn from sin. Through the saving Grace of God we know what pleases Him and what doesn't.

At one time what I thought was OK isn't.

But there's a distinction between flesh and spirit. By the saving grace of God I know what is wrong. Problem is my flesh is against God, I can not please God through the flesh. Yes, I sin. The difference is now I know it's wrong. Does this mean I can continue to do the sin? No. I can fellowship with other believers, confessing my sin. They can help me turn from the sin I'm having trouble with. Through prayer and being accountable I can make progress to ending the sin. In this manner I grow to be more like Christ. Can I ever be like Christ in the flesh? No, but I can aspire to be the man God meant me to be by surrender to Him. This is my walk with Christ, an evergoing process for I can never be perfect in the flesh.

That process does not justify me before God, for I was already justified by the work Christ did at Calvary. My flesh dies, my spirit continues into eternal life with Christ. I walk by the spirit of Christ, acknowledging my sin. My spirit tells me I do wrong. I acknowledge the sinful ways by the spirit.

Can I fulfill the law? No, not while on this earth. Am I forgiven? Yes, forgiven of the sins I did in the past, the sins I'm presently guilty of and the sins I will do in the future. Is christianity an "Easy-believism"? No, for my walk with Christ is against my flesh but my spirit, the spirit of Christ within me, tells me I'm doing wrong.

Again, at one time what I thought was right now is wrong. I've become a new creature with an entirely new look at things. My sense of right and wrong has changed dramatically. But that does not mean I will always do what's right for I am still in the flesh.

Do Seventh Day Adventists believe that circumcision is necessary, or do you mean this in some other sense?

Circumsion these days is more for sanitary reasons, not for religious reasons. It is the "circumsicion" of the heart, not of the flesh, that is the circumcision of the new Covenant. Repentance.

So, through repentance, the grace of God of the Holy Spirit, I change my sense of right and wrong. I am yet the sinner but through faith in Christ, what He did on the cross, I have salvation and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Rick W]

I think the Law and Faith are being confused in a sense.

John the Baptist first comes preaching repentance. Why? The Law convicts us of sin. By the Law I know what sin is. By repentance I admit to transgressing the Law and I'm a sinner.

I have faith that Christ died, was buried and rose again overcoming the power of sin.

I see a two step process, repentance then the saving grace of the sacrifice of His Son. John the Baptist, then the sacrifice of The Lamb of God.

The sacrifice does not eliminate the Law, the Law itself says a sacrifice must be made. The sacrifice supports the Law acknowledging a sacrifice must occur. And I have faith that Christ did just that. This does not mean that by faith I can follow the Law. But by faith the sins I do, convicted by the Law, are atoned by the work Christ did on the cross.

Christ's death, his burial and resurrection (of which we have faith that He did) does not make void the message of John the Baptist for we are still sinners, and we have faith the power of sin has been overcome.

 

[guibox]

Now that we live in the New Covenant, we are cursed if we go back to observing the law. (Galatians 3:10) The law was like a prison holding us and protecting us from self-destruction until Jesus came. Now, faith has come, and "we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:23-24)

Hmm...I guess Paul was self-decieved or a blatant liar when he said, 'The law is holy, just and good' and 'do we make void the law through faith? Nay we establish the law!' Or perhaps all his 'followers' make him say and believe things that he doesn't say or believe?

Your problem is that you miss Paul's point (and his reason for both slamming and praising the law) that the law cannot save you and it is foolish to try and make it so. However, the law, when used as a standard to live our lives (and who honestly doesn't do this naturally?) and point us to a Savior, is 'holy, just and good'. You are only a slave to the law when you try to use it to justify yourself. Paul constantly speaks against it.

It is not the law but how the law is used and for what purpose. You are so rabid against the law that you make Paul sound foolish and contradictory.

When Paul chastised the Galatians for allowing the Judaizers (Seventh Day Adventist's of his time) to seduce them into observing Jewish customs he said to them, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?" (Galatians 4:8-10)

You are extremely sanctimonious for your 'SDAs of our time' comment. You make me want to laugh for your self righteous judging, servant.

Regardless, I will address your fallacies.

You said it yourself and this verse reiterates it: the Galatians were turning back to their pagan ways, not Judaic laws. You ignore the context of your own verse "when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods." This is a direct admonishing for them that are "turning back to those weak and miserable principles". Colossians also calls this 'worshipping of the weak and beggarly elements". It is these slaves of the universe, these false gods and rituals that the Galatians were wanting to go back to.

The Judaic law is not the issue here no matter how much your fantasies want to make it otherwise.

 

[Servant_2000]

Old Covenant Is a Ghost Town

Paul is clear that the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are not different names for the same thing. In fact, if we keep holding onto parts of the Old Covenant, including the law, we are in danger. We are to "get rid" of the Old Covenant. If we don't, we are not free and will not share in the promised inheritance.

When God gave the Old Covenant to Israel, the tabernacle was the center of the community. All Israel knew that God's presence lived in the Most Holy Place: the light of his glory rested over the mercy seat on the Ark of the Covenant.

During the time of Israel the Ten Commandments and all the ceremonies of the Old Covenant were God's appointed way for people to find and worship Him. The Old Covenant was the legal system that defined Israel as a nation and taught them that they belonged to God. God's presence in the temple was His way of saying to Israel, "I am the heart of this covenant; observe these laws and ceremonies, and you will find Me."

Centuries later, as Jesus hung on the cross, He cried out, " It is finished!" and died. At the moment of His death the curtain in the temple ripped from top to bottom, and something was gone. The presence of God had abandoned the temple. God had abandoned the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant had become a ghost town.

Days later the presence of God entered His new temple. On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit filled the spirits of the believers. It was a new reality. Instead of living in a temple made by hands, God now dwells in the hearts of His followers. Now the law is in our hearts-not merely the Ten Commandments, but the actual Law Giver, God Himself. The Ten were not able to interpret situations with love or compassion. But God in us now tells us, on a moment-by-moment basis, how to live. We are now accountable to God, not the law, for every decision we make.

 

[guibox]

Re: Old Covenant Is a Ghost Town

Paul is clear that the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are not different names for the same thing. In fact, if we keep holding onto parts of the Old Covenant, including the law, we are in danger. We are to "get rid" of the Old Covenant. If we don't, we are not free and will not share in the promised inheritance...During the time of Israel the Ten Commandments and all the ceremonies of the Old Covenant were God's appointed way for people to find and worship Him. The Old Covenant was the legal system that defined Israel as a nation and taught them that they belonged to God. God's presence in the temple was His way of saying to Israel, "I am the heart of this covenant; observe these laws and ceremonies, and you will find Me.

Your problem is associating the moral law with these typologies fufilled in Christ. The temple services all pointed to the salvation of man through faith in the Messiah. When the Messiah came, these services fulfilled their purpose. The moral law is not part of this in type or function. God's law for the order of the universe was established long before sin even entered in the world. How could Lucifer have committed a sin if there were no standard to follow? He worshipped other gods (himself) and put them before God.

To make this and the other commandments as merely temporary, Messianically fulfilled, arbitrary laws only for the Jews is completely false and contradictory. It contradicts the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

God's standard of conduct hasn't changed from the old to the new. You would not kill, steal, or worship other gods in the new covenant as you would in the old. The difference is Christ in us and justification and obedience through the spirit, not the flesh. This is the basis of the New Covenenant. God' laws written in our hearts, built on the promises of Christ that He will 'begin a good work in you and will complete it'.

It is not the validity of God's moral law, something you can't quite seem to get in your head.

The commandments aren't an issue of Messianic fulfillment or salvation but of obedience to the character of God revealed in their principles. These (including the Sabbath) are not changeable as they are a foundation of God's government.

 

[guibox]

Re: Old Covenant Is a Ghost Town

Paul is clear that the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are not different names for the same thing. In fact, if we keep holding onto parts of the Old Covenant, including the law, we are in danger. We are to "get rid" of the Old Covenant. If we don't, we are not free and will not share in the promised inheritance...During the time of Israel the Ten Commandments and all the ceremonies of the Old Covenant were God's appointed way for people to find and worship Him. The Old Covenant was the legal system that defined Israel as a nation and taught them that they belonged to God. God's presence in the temple was His way of saying to Israel, "I am the heart of this covenant; observe these laws and ceremonies, and you will find Me.

Your problem is associating the moral law with these typologies fufilled in Christ. The temple services all pointed to the salvation of man through faith in the Messiah. When the Messiah came, these services fulfilled their purpose. The moral law is not part of this in type or function. God's law for the order of the universe was established long before sin even entered in the world. How could Lucifer have committed a sin if there were no standard to follow? He worshipped other gods (himself) and put them before God.

To make this and the other commandments as merely temporary, Messianically fulfilled, arbitrary laws only for the Jews is completely false and contradictory. It contradicts the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

God's standard of conduct hasn't changed from the old to the new. You would not kill, steal, or worship other gods in the new covenant as you would in the old. The difference is Christ in us and justification and obedience through the spirit, not the flesh. This is the basis of the New Covenenant. God' laws written in our hearts, built on the promises of Christ that He will 'begin a good work in you and will complete it'.

It is not the validity of God's moral law, something you can't quite seem to get in your head.

The commandments aren't an issue of Messianic fulfillment or salvation but of obedience to the character of God revealed in their principles. These (including the Sabbath) are not changeable as they are a foundation of God's government.

I also find it interesting that John was shown the ark in the heavenly temple. The moral law transcends mere earthly requirements and boundaries. What does that signify to you? - Revelation 11:19

 

[yesha]

servant2000,

God had abandoned the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant had become a ghost town.

If the covenant was eternal, how can God abandon it?

guibox,

The moral law is not part of this in type or function.

By "moral law" do you mean the covenant God made with Israel?

God's law for the order of the universe was established long before sin even entered in the world.

Which Laws are you referring to here?

God's standard of conduct hasn't changed from the old to the new. You would not kill, steal, or worship other gods in the new covenant as you would in the old. The difference is Christ in us and justification and obedience through the spirit, not the flesh. This is the basis of the New Covenenant. God' laws written in our hearts, built on the promises of Christ that He will 'begin a good work in you and will complete it'.

What is the difference between obedience through the spirit, as opposed to the flesh?

The commandments aren't an issue of Messianic fulfillment or salvation but of obedience to the character of God revealed in their principles. These (including the Sabbath) are not changeable as they are a foundation of God's government.

How did you determine which laws are unchangable?

Heb 7:12
12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
(NIV)

 

[Jay T]

Now that we live in the New Covenant, we are cursed if we go back to observing the law. (Galatians 3:10) The law was like a prison holding us and protecting us from self-destruction until Jesus came. Now, faith has come, and "we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:23-24)

Never mind what Romans 3:31 said, huh ?
Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law".
It is apparent, you believe that the Bible (God), contradicts Himself. Also, what you imply regarding the New Covenant also makes no sense, as the New Covenant is...the Law, put into the heart and mind...by God Himself, (Hebrews 8:8-10).

But then, we know who hates God's Law, don't we......
Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon (satan) was wroth (ANGRY ! ) with the woman, and went to make [WAR] with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" .

 

[Bob10]

servant_2000

Paul is clear that the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are not different names for the same thing. In fact, if we keep holding onto parts of the Old Covenant, including the law, we are in danger.

the only difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is the LOCUS OF CONTROL:

the former is external and written on tables of stone; the NEW COVENANT is internal and written on fleshy tables of the heart----2Cor. 3:1-3 -- (Heb. 8:8-12) ------

"I will put My laws into their mind and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people."

 

[Bob10]

For an in-depth discussion on the role of the law in the Christian Church, please listen to the following tape. THANKS!


registration is quick and painless --

http://www.cemnetwork.com/btw/btwcurrentprograms.php -- Jesus and the Jews.

 

[Bob10]

THE LAW IS FREEDOM.


you know this.


you're not behind bars -- because -- you obey the laws of the land.

 

[Bob10]

the law is a prison

you would have no chance in convincing DAVID of this.


READ what DAVID thought about God's LAWS, STATUTES & JUDGEMENTS in Psalms 119.



DAVID was a man "after God's own heart" (acts 13:22 / 1 sam. 13:14).

 

[dcookcan]

(Galatians 3:10)
(Galatians 3:23-24)
(Galatians 4:8-10)
(Galatians 4:24-31)

As Peter said, the unrighteous have trouble understanding Paul's letters and they twist them to their own destruction.

You misquoted every single reference in Galations. How do expect to have a meaningful study if you can't even quote what the bible is actually saying?

 

[Jay T]

THE LAW IS FREEDOM.


you know this.


you're not behind bars -- because -- you obey the laws of the land.

Hey Bob.....you and I know this, but the Christian world is controlled by you-know-who....thus, Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[jgarden_47]

Matthew 22:36-40 (New International Version)

The Greatest Commandment

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

As the name suggests, the Greatest Commandment takes prescedence over all other laws and commandments. Love of God and neighbor are at the heart of Christianity, which in its simplicity, eludes many Christians.

Concerning Galatians, Paul's ministry was constantly plagued by the Judaizers, Christian Jews who insisted that Gentiles become Jews (circumcision) before becoming Christians. Christianity was viewed within the context of Judaism.

Paul argues that Abraham received righteousness before the Circumcision Covenant and that Gentiles were excluded. Gentiles who were Christians but had not been circumcized were called "Godfearers."

Circumcision was perceived as a form of "self mutilation" in those areas under the influence of Greek culture which glorified the human body. The Gentiles had a strong aversion to "circumcision.".

 

[Bob10]

but the Christian world is controlled by you-know-who....

Eph.
2:2
Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience:


Satan broadcasts his own evil ways and messages through the air waves.

 

[Jay T]

As the name suggests, the Greatest Commandment takes prescedence over all other laws and commandments. Love of God and neighbor are at the heart of Christianity, which in its simplicity, eludes many Christians.

James 1:23 "For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed".

I wonder.....how many people, who claim to be Christians, understand that the 'Perfect Law of Liberty' is...the 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17 ?

How many people understand that the 10 commandments, is solely for the purpose of revealing, where a person is...spiritually ?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Now that we live in the New Covenant, we are cursed if we go back to observing the law. (Galatians 3:10) The law was like a prison holding us and protecting us from self-destruction until Jesus came. Now, faith has come, and "we are no longer under the supervision of the law." (Galatians 3:23-24)

When Paul chastised the Galatians for allowing the Judaizers (Seventh Day Adventist's of his time) to seduce them into observing Jewish customs he said to them, "Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?" (Galatians 4:8-10)

But the Galatians had not been Jews-they had been pagans. Yet was Paul asking them why they were "turning back." They weren't turning back to paganism; they were going toward Judaism. To Paul, their slide into keeping the Old Covenant Jewish law and customs was no different from becoming pagan. Either way, they would be enslaved to works.

Paul compares the Old Covenant to Hagar. She and her children are in slavery. But the New Covenant he compares to Sarah. She and her children are free. Paul says, "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." (Galatians 4:24-31)

Sputnik: What exactly were the Galations doing, servant, and what was it that Paul was referring to? Well, there were Jewish Christians who believed, among other things, that a number of the ceremonial practices of the OT were still binding on the NT church. They insisted that Gentile converts to Christianity abide by certain OT rites, especially circumcision.

That any Gentiles had been obedient (slaves?) to the moral principles of God's Ten Commandments would not have been an issue to Paul. No one would EVER be criticized, belittled, or called 'foolish' for having no other gods, for keeping the Sabbath, for honoring their parents, for not killing, stealing, committing adultery, etc. The idea that Paul was doing so in this passage of scripture is ludicrous thinking. Paul is referring to those OT practices that were no longer necessary since Christ had abolished them at the cross. How you or anyone else can honestly believe that the Ten Commandments would be referred to as being 'weak and miserable' and 'self-destructing' should surely raise a red flag.

Is ridding us of the seventh-day Sabbath the main reason that so many want the entire Ten Commandments done away with? If not for sending a message to those who choose to remain obedient to the 4th-commandment, would it even be worth the effort by some to abolish the entire 10? I don't think so. It's because the remaining 9 don't require the same 'visible' commitment by Christians. Sunday, to most Christians, is 'church day' (the recognized Christian Sabbath) and this custom is to be so militantly upheld that ALL of the commandments have to go in order to compensate for the 'error'.

No one would take issue with 'no killing', 'no stealing', 'no dishonoring parents', 'no committing adultery', and so forth. It's simply the '7th-day Sabbath' that creates the inconvenience for most Christians. And, in order to rid us of that command we have to say 'bye bye' to all of them. So sad!