The law of Righteousness

[Ahuli]

Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world...not for ours only.
[quote="1 John 2:2":3lf00iyu]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If man does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will die in his sins.
The gift must be accepted by believing.

Whosoever believeth shall have remission of sins.
[quote="Acts 10:43":3lf00iyu]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Whosoever believeth....will not perish, but have eternal life.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[/quote:3lf00iyu]

Yes Jesus paid for the sins of the world meaning both Jews and Gentiles and men/women/children from all walks of life and from all nations on the face of the earth. Christ never came to save only Jews.

So if Christ paid for my sins at the cross is it possible I can still be lost?
You alluded to this in your post when you said we must believe and accept.

What about this verse?

John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.[/quote:3lf00iyu]
You must believe and accept. Anything else is irrational. If I don't buy the ticket to take the train to California, I'm not going. If you do not believe and accept Christ's sacrifice, you're not going.

 

[Ahuli]

Eternal life is a type of life. When we are born of the Spirit we enter into this type of life. If we continue steadfastly unto the end in this type of life we will rule with Christ.

If we become proud and lazy in our walk then we stand to lose our place. Many have lost their place in order to give us the chance. We must never be smug. If we do not learn righteousness we remain blind and frustrate the grace of God. Our ultimate salvation is conditional on continued faithfulness and perseverance.

I reckon you're not OSAS.

 

[Adullam]

You're wrong. What you're describing is dead faith...that which the devils have. I'm surprised you don't know the difference. It certainly is God who justifies, and He does that through the faith of Jesus Christ. It is His faith you are denouncing as inadequate to save and to keep those who look to Him for their salvation. I'm hardly the one who seeks to justify myself...that would be those of you who think you can somehow be obedient enough or righteous enough to do the work Jesus came to do...which was reconcile man with God. It's the work of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us...to conform us into the image of Christ. You doubt the power of God, and mourn the unrighteousness of those who claim to be sons. That's your personal problem...not the problem of those who know God's power in their lives.

Where is your faith in the power of God? I don't see it. You have more faith in the power of man to frustrate the will of God. God is more than able to accomplish every work He starts. I see Him working in the lives of believers every day. Just because you can't see it does not mean it isn't there. It sounds like you've been out of fellowship for quite some time....the Word warns us to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Seek out the brethern and you will see God is not the incompetent you seem to think Him.

Why would I be out of fellowship? One need not drink the communal kool-aid to be in fellowship. I am an overseer in a church. My calling is to rescue the lost among the believers in Jesus. To see them survive on that day, rather than be rejected.

The power lies with God, not with man. Our claims to acceptance of God are of no consequence. If a man declares his own greatness, how great is he really? If a man claims to be just....how just is he?

It is wise to leave the justifying to God. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when wishful schemers have their bubbles permanently burst. I would see to it that believers would awaken from their error and stick their heads out of the sands of deception. Look deeper.

Sorry if I'm not impressed. There are no "lost" among the believers. There are only "lost" among those who "profess" to believe and those who don't deny their unbelief. If you're looking for the lost among believers then you are merely setting yourself up as a judge of the brethern. That's nothing more than hypocrisy...check the beam in your own eye first. Tearing down the body of Christ is not a ministry....condemning those you "suspect" but have no knowledge of is the height of self-righteousness. You really should guard against that...preach the Gospel to the unsaved. Those of us who know the Lord can see your judgmental spirit, and it really isn't from the Lord.

LOL I was just answering your own wrong conclusions about where I'm coming from. You don't seem to be able to handle that either. Your profiling was as opposite in reality as your take on the meaning of scripture you are posting. I didn't think for a moment that that would change your abiblity to grasp reality. I didn't mean it as an attack on your ego either. Just a clarification of your error. I have nothing to prove to any human anyway. Your reasonings here prove the need to re-teach the gospel to they who have a dogmatic grasp of what they believe is the truth. Discipleship is lacking. Wisdom is lacking. Error abounds. Christianity is not just about filling pews with "saved" people. There are more gifts in the Body than just evangelist and pastor. The church is not a business or corporation that needs to turn a temporal profit. There is such a thing as spiritual growth. This is my concern for you. You just resist that process for the done deal scenario. You can't help sombody to run a race they think they've already won.

 

[Adullam]

Eternal life is a type of life. When we are born of the Spirit we enter into this type of life. If we continue steadfastly unto the end in this type of life we will rule with Christ.

If we become proud and lazy in our walk then we stand to lose our place. Many have lost their place in order to give us the chance. We must never be smug. If we do not learn righteousness we remain blind and frustrate the grace of God. Our ultimate salvation is conditional on continued faithfulness and perseverance.

I reckon you're not OSAS.

You could say that ! ;)

 

[Adullam]

I have walked by the power of God in the light. I have been to the throne room of God. This does not justify me. More is required of me than if I had net seen and heard what I have. I will be judged the harder. I am in a place of authority in Christ's Body. Again my responsibility is that much greater. It is my experience of reality in the Spirit that causes me to despair at the powerless claims of those who have seen nothing. The truth is according to power.

Here is a test for a believer.

Can a man walk as Christ and not sin in this life? What would a believer answer? What would you answer?

Most believers judge the word by their own experience. By doing so they deny the truth. They don't believe they can do all things through Christ since they have seen nothing beyond their own imaginings.

Do you realize what you're saying? You are boasting in yourself.

You may honestly believe you are in a position of authority, but you do not have enough knowledge of the Word of God to make that claim. I simply don't believe your boasting. You're still in need of the milk.

Whatever is not faith is sin. If you say you have no sin you are a liar, for all men sin and come short of the glory of God. Take my word for it...you come short. I come short. Paul came short and freely admitted it.

LOL I knew you wouldn't respond to the post.

 

[Adullam]

One cannot manufacture shame. It is a facet of righteousness to feel shame at one's inabiblity to stop sinning. If we hated sin as we ought, we would feel shame in continuing in it. If we accept sin and even defend sin, then we are lawless.

Jesus Christ came to rescue the righteous-hearted by giving them the power to overcome sin through His resurrection life. This new life cannot be disconnected from the righteous heart in a man. The will of God is not accomplished through unbelief, cynicism and compromise.

We forsake what we hate. If sin were like dung to us, we would seek to forsake it. Paul goes even further....he forsakes all (even the good stuff) in order to be further empowered by Christ. He wants in on the available grace. So he is an example of one who is righteous seeking for holiness.

Jesus did not come to rescue the righteous-hearted. He came to save sinners, and to set the captives free from the power of sin. Man's heart is deceitfully wicked...which is why God has to circumcise our heart and give us a new one with which we can serve Him. Those who have been born of God do hate sin, because they love God. They would not be new creatures if that was not the case. Man can't glory in the work of God. We've been bought with a price, and we but do our duty when we obey Him. Paul is talking about our denying self....and allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us. Surrender your will to the Lord and allow Him to do His perfect work in your life. His yoke is easy and His burden is light...enter into His rest and you will see.

Who wrote the above post? Is there more than one user using the computer? You contradict your earlier statements like...obedience is now our duty. You said previously that we are not expected to obey. You claim that one is justified outside obedience, making obedience not our duty, but an option. Which one is it?

By the way, Jesus did not come to abandon the righteous hearted. He came to save them. He calls the sinners to be as they are...righteous. You should read this parable that Jesus taught about a certain Samaritan that helped a man he didn't know. Jesus sets up this righteous man as an example to follow. You could learn of Jesus through His teachings. A righteous person is not the enemy of God. The rebellious one is. The religious one is. ( you can't yet see that) He has come to call the rebellious ones to surrender. He has come to call those who think they're eternally saved already to surrender. (like the Pharisees) Again, the righteous are the friends of God. Why is it so important to condemn the righteous in order to save the rebellious. Is it jealousy? Would you condemn Abel to save Cain?

 

[francisdesales]

But let me remind you what has come to pass lately here about the Gospel...

1. There is no Scriptures to tell us that Christ's righteousness is applied to anyone. The Gospels clearly refute that, which is why you avoid the words of our Savior and prefer to twist the words of Paul to your destruction.

Of course there are, you just choose to ignore them.

Really? We've been through this, so let's see if there is anything new...

Righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ...unto all and upon all them that believe. Surely you aren't claiming that all who believe have enough righteousness of their own to be justified before God and to come before the throne of God? Romans 3:22

First, the Bible doesn't say "faith of Jesus" it says "faith IN Jesus", just as Christ and the Apostles have taught. We are taught to believe IN Jesus.

Secondly, this does not say that anyone's righteousness is applied to man.

Surely you are not claiming an extra-biblical notion that we cannot come before God with a humble, yet imperfect heart???

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

I am certain that Paul, who wrote Phillipians 2:12-13, had in mind that we do not have any righteousness that we provided without God. God provides the desires within us to be righteous, so no one can say they generated their own righteousness. I have already explained this ad nauseum...

As to the topic, nothing about another's righteousness applied to us, this is just your inability to distinguish between righteousness that God moves within me to DO and righteousness that is not mine and covers me, completely alien to me. This is quite simple, and I am not sure why you cannot understand the difference...

We even "obtain faith" through the righteousness of Christ.
="2 Peter 1:1"
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Again, does not say that righteousness of anyone is applied to us. It says what I have told you for some time. Christ intercedes and appeals to the Father for our sake, so because of the Son's offering and expiation, the Father grants us mercy and the gift of faith FOR US! It is not "Christ's faith" that is given to us, it is the gift of the Spirit that moves within us a response of faith in God. It is ours, but a gift given, not something we GENERATE from our OWN wills WITHOUT God!

As such, "the righteousness of Christ applied to us" offends sola scriptura...

It is NOWHERE found in the Bible, a tradition of men, my friend.

2. Your scheme has no need of obedience to God, no transformation, no sanctification. Oh, you play lip service to it, but there is absolutely nothing you have told me where we NEED it - it's Christ who does everything - although we don't see any Scriptures for that, either...

Keep your "lip service" digs to yourself, Joe. Your flesh is showing again.

My comment remains when you preach one thing but your scheme does not require it.

IF Christ's righteousness is applied to us and we are perfect in God's eyes, what is the point of sanctification? You define it, you wiggle around and tell me about righteousness, but you don't believe it because you fall back on "Christ's righteouesness" when you sin - the Father doesn't see it. Thus, there is no point in sanctification in this scheme, it is merely lip service, just as sola scriputra is to you (such as righteousness of Christ, perfect righteousness required by God before coming before Him, etc...)

There are mountains of scripture and I've provided you with many of them, but since you don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification you can't understand what I've posted, apparently. First we are justified by faith, regenerated (raised into newness of life), sanctified (set apart) and the process of sanctification begins. That is where we learn to walk in obedience...when we fail to obey, we're chastened as sons of God. We obviously need to learn obedience or we won't mature and learn to keep our childish comments in check.

WHO CARES about your comments or my comments if Christ's righteousness is covering you/me???

Don't you realize this was Luther's battle cry and his excuse to "sin and sin greatly"? Paul says the opposite of you and Luther. DON'T Sin! Consider his life, Calvin's life of immorality, pride and arrogance. That is what such mentality leads one to act; All that stuff about righteousness is unimportant, since God doesn't care about OUR righteousness. Thus, he taught that one could murder and rape every day without consequences, because we are COVERED... :gah

Everything you have said so far ignores the reason for why sanctification is necessary in your scheme. Can you answer this or not?

3. You refuse to recognize the REAL Gospel - that God forgives men without the need of a perfect sacrifice. Another reason why you refuse to look at the Gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John. I could list over a dozen Scripture stories about Chirst forgiving the sorrow and repentance JUST based on a repentant asking for it...

Wrong, God required a perfect sacrifice for sin.

Wrong, He did not. I ask you yet again for the Scriptures - or is this another of those non sola scriptura ideas that you bring to the table and expect me to swallow based upon your scheme???

Where does God require a perfect sacrifice? In the OT, the Jews celebrated Yom Kippur, and EVERY YEAR, God forgave them of sins. Which High Priest was perfect? Which offered a perfect sacrifice? Is this even NEEDED by God??? No, since pagans have attained eternal life without such bloody sacrifices.

As I said, and you again ignore, I could list numerous Scriptures from the Gospels, the part of the Bible you have disdain for, that cite that God accepts the sorrow and repentance of a man who is not perfect or perfectly providing a "blood sacrifice".

For starters, did the Lost Son in the Prodigal Son offer a lamb before his father forgave the son??? Jesus said the "kingdom of God is like this...", stating that the Father was as the father in the story. God does not require such bloody sacrifices, you are hung up on inadequate theology.

Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Without sacrifice, there is no remission of sin. I can't believe you don't know that Jesus died to take away our sin.

He did, but not in the way you demand. You are confusing "REQUIRE" with "FITTING". God is not required to do anything, and CERTAINLY does not need BLOOD!!! Again, I seriously doubt if you actually sat down and considered this. You are spoon-fed stuff and don't even think about it...

Repentance does not remove sin...

God requires that we are repentant before He forgives sins. Forgiveness is conditional upon that act and God's mercy. By faith, we believe that God forgives us our sins when we repent. There is no feeedback on that, unless one goes to a Catholic confession.

only the cross did that. Repentance only means we accept that sacrifice on our behalf. Shame on you, Joe, for denying the cross was necessary.

You misunderstand.

The cross shows the extravagance of the Son's Love. Love is not "necessary". You apparently do not know much about love, if you think it was "necessary". When you do something for your wife or children, something special from your heart, is it "necessary"??? Which "force" is making you do it???

God can forgive sins in however manner He desires. WHAT EXACTLY is binding God to kill His Son??? Ridiculous...

It was FITTING that God give His Son up for the world because God is Love. Not necessary.

When one begins with the Trinity, one understands better the teachings of the Church. Being that the Son is God, it is fitting that He would show His love in such a means. But just by BECOMING one of us could have been deemed "sufficient" for Christ to be the Mediator for mankind, interceding for our sake.

I can't believe you think God is love while killing His Son because there is some "force" that is making God do it...???? If God is all powerful, exactly why does God offer His Son? Is God blood thirsty? Is there some other "god" that He answers to???

No, you are mistaken and do not understand the fullness of the Gospel. God is love and desired to extravagently show mankind His love for us through that sacrifice on the cross. God was pleased to see His Son's obedience and reciprocal love - NOT because He desired to make His Son suffer, but because He wanted men to know the fullness and depth of His love for man. Your version contradicts the idea that God is love.

My goodness...that's something even a child understands quite well. Christ died for your sins...you didn't repent them away, or cry them away.

Christ died for our sake because He DESIRED to... As an expiation, a sin offering. For the sake of the world. But without my repentance, His work is not applied to me. This is clearly why we are told to repent.

Yes, indeed....God demanded a sacrifice for sin.
Hebrews 10:12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

There is no DEMAND there...!!! Again, you are reading your scheme into the Scriptures. What would the sola scriptura police say about this???

4. You are confused on why Christ died on the cross... A blood thirsty Father of "love"???? Have you ever considered the contradiction in that???

What you fail to understand is God is absolutely righteous, and it's only by sending His Son to die on the cross that man could ever be reconciled to God.

Why was Christ "wounded"..."bruised", beaten, spat upon, and crucified? Why did a loving God allow that to happen, Joe? Just for His own pleasure as you said before? It was because of SIN. It was for your sin, and you make light of it as if it didn't even need to happen.

You need to ask yourself what you asked me... Why did the Father allow such suffering when He had it in His power to forgive sin in any way He desired. WHO is all powerful, sin or God??? Are you saying that sin is more powerful than God??? God HAD to do this, because then "sin" would force God to do it????

NOTHING can bind God. He CHOSE to manifest His love in this particular manner.

You demean God by even using the term "blood thirsty". I can only shake my head in dismay when you make such statements.

Grow up, I demean your understanding that God is blood thirsty and REQUIRES blood, when the Bible says He does not... You hear me, THE BIBLE says God does not require blood....

The sacrifice is of value because of the person offering it and the value of the offering. The value of blood is LIFE ITSELF. That is the most valuable offering one could make. And Christ is of inestimable value to the Father. Thus, the sacrifice is extravagantly sufficient for the Son to appeal to the Father to atone for mankind, just as Adam's sin effected all of mankind.

But this does not mean man is off the hook. Man must STILL make an act of repentance.

Isaiah 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

[/quote]

Of course He was, it is an extravagant display of love, since there is NO GREATER LOVE THAN THAT... Nothing about "required"... God is not REQUIRED to jump through any magic hoops to forgive men. Christ makes that clear over and over in the Gospels.

Or have you read them????

 

[francisdesales]

Did Christ pay for the sins of every single individual who would ever come into existence?

Chirst atoned for the sins of ALL mankind, not just believers. See Romans 5. Clearly, Paul compares Adam to Christ's work, and every Christian must agree that Christ's work was JUST AS ENCOMPASSING as Adam's. Worldwide.

However, Christ's work of atonement is conditionally applied to men who repent and believe.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote francis:"THE BIBLE says God does not require blood...."


francis

What an untrue comment once again ! What do you think God was saying in Genesis 9:5 and Leviticus 17:11 anyways ?

Genesis 9:5 - "And surely your blood of your lives will I require ; at the hand

of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man ; at the hand of every man's

brother will I require the life of man" ---- Leviticus 17:11 - "For the life of the flesh

is in the blood" : and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your

souls : for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul"

 

[Dave...]

Did Christ pay for the sins of every single individual who would ever come into existence?

Chirst atoned for the sins of ALL mankind, not just believers. See Romans 5. Clearly, Paul compares Adam to Christ's work, and every Christian must agree that Christ's work was JUST AS ENCOMPASSING as Adam's. Worldwide.

However, Christ's work of atonement is conditionally applied to men who repent and believe.

Did Christ die for these?

25-27 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Answer...

11.15 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep...As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Clearly, He did not!

Dave

 

[francisdesales]

Quote francis:"THE BIBLE says God does not require blood...."


francis

What an untrue comment once again ! What do you think God was saying in Genesis 9:5 and Leviticus 17:11 anyways ?

I have already discussed this. Genesis 9:5 is not speaking about literal blood, but about vengeance. Would God be upset if somone who kills "x" dies by a club blow to the head, rather than a knife thrust to the neck??? This is talking about a life for a life, not about blood.

---- Leviticus 17:11 - "For the life of the flesh

is in the blood" : and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your

souls : for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul"

Note, this is a reference to the Mosaic Law. It is required of Jews as they perform the Law, for their own sake, not God's. God doesn't need blood. He has told us so. He has no need of blood. You ignore numerous citations from Scripture to the contrary.

 

[francisdesales]

Did Christ die for these?

25-27 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

The answer is yes. As usual, you aren't taking into consideration the rules of language. Because Jesus died for His sheep does NOT rule out that He died for the SIN OF THE WORLD, which the Bible says He did...

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

Christ's sacrifice is quite sufficient, more so, in undoing the work of Adam, which was also universal (Romans 5), as I have already said.

 

[watchman F]

The plain meaning of the previous text is usually distorted to mean the righteous are promised physical life in the here and now rather than the future salvation. This idea is sown by they who don't believe that turning from wickedness is necessary in order to inherit eternal life.

But the righteous and the wicked both have the present life. The Hebrew for the life promised is in the future tense. God will judge all men according to their works and ways. Before we lay down the next level of righteousness in Christ, we do well to understand God's ways.

30 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Turning away from our wickedness is repentance. Repentance is a requirement for forgiveness and a new walk in righteousness.

Amen, excellent post Adullam.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote francis:"THE BIBLE says God does not require blood...."


francis

What an untrue comment once again ! What do you think God was saying in Genesis 9:5 and Leviticus 17:11 anyways ?

I have already discussed this. Genesis 9:5 is not speaking about literal blood, but about vengeance. Would God be upset if somone who kills "x" dies by a club blow to the head, rather than a knife thrust to the neck??? This is talking about a life for a life, not about blood.

---- Leviticus 17:11 - "For the life of the flesh

is in the blood" : and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your

souls : for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul"

Note, this is a reference to the Mosaic Law. It is required of Jews as they perform the Law, for their own sake, not God's. God doesn't need blood. He has told us so. He has no need of blood. You ignore numerous citations from Scripture to the contrary.

Hi

Lest you forget, it is God speaking in Lev. 17:11 ! ! And there is no mention here, that God is telling them to do it for their sake ! !

He has required it !

 

[watchman F]

GD wrote "The justice of God was satisfied when Christ bore our sins in His body on the cross. When man believes that...righteousness is accounted to him. "

LOL 80% of Americans believe as you do. The mafia believe this. There is no power in what you are saying. You are taking the power out of the true faith in silly statements that change nothing but give sentimental comfort to a rebellious people.

Jesus died for the sins of the world. It is GOD who justifies. Don't seek to justify yourself through your own belief. The Pharisees justified themselves through their faith in Moses...yet Moses would condemn them for their ways. So it is with Christ and His modern suitors. There is no shame before their eyes.

AMEN!!!!!!

 

[francisdesales]

Lest you forget, it is God speaking in Lev. 17:11 ! ! And there is no mention here, that God is telling them to do it for their sake ! !

He has required it !

Thanks, I have not forgotten that the Law was given to the Jews as a teacher, a pedagogue to teach them the ways of God. Obedience to the Old Law, such as sacrifices and handwashing, are NOT for God's good!!!

Think.... They are for bringing man closer to God, training man to be more like God, more holy. By requiring men to sacrifice something of importance, they developed an attitude of reverance and piety towards God. God required it for the sake of training men, not for HImself.

Really, what does God need with gallons of bull blood????

 

[Mysteryman]

Lest you forget, it is God speaking in Lev. 17:11 ! ! And there is no mention here, that God is telling them to do it for their sake ! !

He has required it !

Thanks, I have not forgotten that the Law was given to the Jews as a teacher, a pedagogue to teach them the ways of God. Obedience to the Old Law, such as sacrifices and handwashing, are NOT for God's good!!!

Think.... They are for bringing man closer to God, training man to be more like God, more holy. By requiring men to sacrifice something of importance, they developed an attitude of reverance and piety towards God. God required it for the sake of training men, not for HImself.

Really, what does God need with gallons of bull blood????

Hi

You are the one who should be able to explain that ! You said you literally drink the blood of Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

You are the one who should be able to explain that ! You said you literally drink the blood of Christ.

I do, at the Eucharist, just as He commanded...

 

[hebrews1017]

Adullam wrote:
The modern position is the powerless gospel that saves people who continue in unrighteousness and lawlessness. It really is a slam on righteousness. This position states that God is not looking for obedience at all. He says to us...relax, do whatever you like....I'll save you. In fact the more you "try" to do what is right, the less I will save you. So the modern gospel rewards the unrighteous and condemns the righteous-hearted. It is a powerless message that denies any possible victory over sin. It invents a secret Jesus covering that somehow blinds God to the reality of our true state. I don't seek to judge anyone for having believed the lie. I am merely trying to show the right way. I myself was infected with the false gospel virus for a long time. Hence my wish to help others who are similarly ensnared.

I'm coming in at the end of this discussion but here goes anyway. I'm confused by the above statement. I believe Adullam you are talking about someone who says he is a Christian, is that right? and what is your definition of being saved?

 

[archangel_300]

Did Christ pay for the sins of every single individual who would ever come into existence?

Chirst atoned for the sins of ALL mankind, not just believers. See Romans 5. Clearly, Paul compares Adam to Christ's work, and every Christian must agree that Christ's work was JUST AS ENCOMPASSING as Adam's. Worldwide.

However, Christ's work of atonement is conditionally applied to men who repent and believe.

Yes and dead men don't come to repentence and believe unless it is by the power of God.
If Christ paid for the sins of every single individual no person can be cast into hell. No one can by judged according to their works because God would be judging sin through the body of Christ as well as sin through the unsaved individual. God would be perfectly unjust in doing so.

Let's say the son of a store owner paid for the exact items a thief stole.
The store owner later catches the thief and requires him to pay. Is the store owner just by collecting payment twice?