The Law

[I Reckon Sow]

Evening Georges

Acts 21:20-26
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: [21] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN, neither to walk after the customs. [22] What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. [23] Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; [24] Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. [25] As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. [26] Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of THE DAYS OF PURIFICATION, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Luke 2:19-23
But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. [20] And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. [21] And WHEN EIGHT DAYS WERE ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE CIRCUMCISING OF THE CHILD, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. [22] And when THE DAYS OF HER PURIFICATION ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; [23] (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

Do ya think these 2 passages might have something to do with circumcism and not sacrificing animals?

 

[Georges]

Evening Georges

Good Evening, or Morning as when you get this....

Acts 21:20-26
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Paul returns to Jerusalem and reports to the Elders in Jerusalem concerning what he is teaching the Gentile Christians...In return, James (the leader of the Christian Church) tells Paul of the success they are having there and that thousands of Jews are accepting Jesus as the Messiah...and just as important, they are ZEALOUS of the law...which means they accept Jesus as the Messiah while practicing Judaism (as proper).

[21] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN, neither to walk after the customs.

Paul obviously (see Galations) is teaching the Gentiles to abstain from observing Torah....and the elders of Jerusalem want to know if this is true...

[22] What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

James warns Paul that the "thousands of Jews" who have come to accept Jesus as the Messiah and a ZEALOUS of the Torah will not take kindly to Paul if they found out that he has been teaching falsely....i.e. Torah abstination (for Gentiles).

[23] Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

A Nazarite Vow....see previous post.

[24] Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

James wants Paul to prove to the believing (thousands of) Jews that Paul is not teaching against the Torah and that he himself is compliant.

[25] As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

In regard to Gentiles, James commands that they observe "Torah Lite".

As seen in Acts 15 (sister passage), there are 2 sets of Gentiles...God Fearers and Proselytes.....GF's (obey Torah Lite), P's (obey Torah as full converts to Judaism).

[26] Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of THE DAYS OF PURIFICATION, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

It appears the Paul is Torah compliant in this verse..

Luke 2:19-23
But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. [20] And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. [21] And WHEN EIGHT DAYS WERE ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE CIRCUMCISING OF THE CHILD, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. [22] And when THE DAYS OF HER PURIFICATION ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; [23] (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

Not sure what you are getting at with these verses....obviously the people were Torah compliant.

Do ya think these 2 passages might have something to do with circumcism and not sacrificing animals?

Not sure what you are asking.....but will answer by commenting on the verse...you may know it already so please take no offense as I don't know what direction you are coming from with your post....

I'll comment on the verses in red...

 

[Klee shay]

Hello BWOG. :D

Unitarian suggests that there is also no Holy Spirit, and I havent seen mention of that yet in here

You're more than welcome to share any scripture regarding the Holy Spirit, to benefit the conversation.

While my intention of raising this thread was based on discussing the Law (or lack of the Law) I'm happy to discuss other matters which are referred to by God in the scriptures. For example, Jesus told his disciples that the Comforter would come and lead them into all truths, and this is why I believe the Holy Spirit is in existence today. Not to believe in the Holy Spirit is not to represent the truth as Jesus revealed it.

What specific role the Holy Spirit has in one's salvation however, I'm not quite sure. My experience with Christianity until late, was one that was majorly "Spirit led". After reading from the authority in which Jesus taught however, his reference to the Holy Spirit (Comforter) came just before he was to be crucified; and it was only in reference that it would lead his disciples into all truths.

I think Christianity (or at least some branches of it) as a result, has taken that to mean what the Holy Spirit leads us into supercedes the power of God. Or that is how I understand "Spirit led" to mean. I don't think Jesus meant for mankind to look towards the power of the Holy Spirit and away from God.

But I'm still learning... :wink:

 

[I Reckon Sow]

ACTS[21] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN, neither to walk after the customs.

Paul obviously (see Galations) is teaching the Gentiles to abstain from observing Torah....and the elders of Jerusalem want to know if this is true...

The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. New testament scripture tells us so. No where in Galatians does Paul tell the gentiles to abstain from from observing the Torah. The schoolmaster? Yeah. But then then question needs be asked, DID you go to school? Have you come to Christ? Or have you recieved another spirit that you may well put up with? Are you amoung the few or the many?

 

[Georges]

ACTS[21] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN, neither to walk after the customs.

Paul obviously (see Galations) is teaching the Gentiles to abstain from observing Torah....and the elders of Jerusalem want to know if this is true...

The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. New testament scripture tells us so.

Paul hints at it...no one else does...if you trust one man's (unconfirmed) interpretation of theology...you are a better man than I...

oh and.....someone forgot to tell Paul about circumcision being nulled at the Cross...or was it revealed to him after the fact.

Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father [was] a Greek:
Act 16:2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.


I'm sure Timothy would have been hacked off if he knew he really didn't have to be cut...."nailed to the cross" is the biggest desception purputrated by Pauline Christianity.



No where in Galatians does Paul tell the gentiles to abstain from from observing the Torah.

Ah....you are right....the words "Do Not Follow Torah" do not appear in black and white. However, isn't the general consences that "nailed to the cross" means "you don't have to observe it anymore"? It was in the Lutheran Church I grew up in. Doesn't Paul's chastising of Peter for wanting to observe the Mosaic dietary laws....by possibly encouraging (by not discouraging) the Gentiles from doing the same not encouraging Torah appathy? I've got to believe that if Peter is chastised for eating "kosher" that Paul is not, or teaching Gentiles that observing Torah doesn't matter. That is why Paul was called to the carpet twice in Acts.

The schoolmaster? Yeah. But then then question needs be asked, DID you go to school?

Of course..."C" student. Folks were always mad at me cause I could have done better. I was more interested in playing ball than concentrating on my studies.

Have you come to Christ?

Have I come to Christ?....Hmmm.....If you mean in an ecstatic spritually ritualistic way?....no. Do I recognize Christ for who he is? Yes. Do I recognize him as the way to salvation? Yes, by his example of how to live life by following God's wishes.

Or have you recieved another spirit that you may well put up with?

Ouch...a slap... I've run across many on the forums who are convinced that they have the only righteous view. I've run across many who consider anything other than what they believe to be demonic in nature....maybe I'll ask you the same question in return....but I won't.....cause I've ran across that type before and it's tough to convince them the sky is blue.

Are you amoung the few or the many?

If truth isn't found in the many....I guess you would have to number me with the few...I will not be one of the sheeple.

Cheers....

 

[Imagican]

Georges,

What you fail to take into consideration is that Christ need NOT teach what Paul did for Christ 'lived among us in flesh' at the time of HIS teachings. Paul came along 'later' and AFTER EVERYTHING had been fulfilled. In order to COMPLETE the teachings of Christ, Paul was directed by the Spirit to MANY details that Christ did not offer or were simply NOT documented. For you DO realize that EVERYTHING that Christ offered was NOT written down, right?

Klee, I believe that your understanding is closer to what we have been offered than those that teach the opposite. For Christ came to 'fulfill' the law. At the point of His death, it WAS fulfilled. The law was a 'teacher' NOT meant to ALWAYS be as it was in the beginning. For in the beginning man was confined to a 'law' written in stone'. After the 'fulfillment of the law', 'laws' written in stone were NO longer what we are to live by. But NOW and since the death of Christ, those that accept the Son will have the laws written in their hearts.

There have been a number of 'different' covenants offered throughout history. The 'law' was one such covenant. It was foretold that it would ONLY be for a 'time' for there would come a time when we would NO LONGER be bound to the 'written law'. That time has come and gone and you seem to understand this.

There is a time coming soon where NO man will be able to buy nor sell save he have the mark. For those that accept the mark they have sealed their doom. What about the rest. If we were still bound by a 'written law' then if we were to lie or steal in order to survive, then we would be 'bound to death' for these sins. That is NOT the case. For we are no longer bound to judgement for our works, but the PURPOSE for our works. As the law is NOW written in the hearts of those that follow Christ, so too will we be judged by that 'which is in our hearts.' This WILL be revealed upon judgement and there will be no NEED for conviction for ones OWN heart will convict them once they are no longer able to fool themselves into believing that they can lie to God or themselves.

So, we are certainly to DO that which is righteous to do, and avoid that which is unrighteous. But, we are no longer bound to death by the written law. Christ fulfilled this. Upon His death a NEW covenant was created in which we are now NO LONGER BOUND TO DEATH THROUGH THE WRITTEN LAW.

And for those that believe that we are still bound to the written law. Boy, you better make sure that you learn ALL OF IT and FOLLOW ALL OF IT. For as I stated previous, we WILL be judged by 'what's in our heart'. And, if you believe that you WILL be judged by the written law, you probably will be for that is your faith. But, Christ HAS set us free, and free we are indeed, Unless we are foolish enough to refuse this freedom and instead choose to be bound by the 'written law'. And, if you choose the 'written law' to be bound to, you are bound to ALL OF IT. Not just what you pick and choose to follow.

 

[I Reckon Sow]

I'm sure Timothy would have been hacked off if he knew he really didn't have to be cut...."nailed to the cross" is the biggest desception purputrated by Pauline Christianity.

Maybe a better wording for "nailed to the cross" would be "fulfilled in Christ". Shadows of the law that prophecied of Christ and were fulfilled in His coming.

I had my 2 sons circumcised. But not because i was following any law.

 

[I Reckon Sow]

As the law is NOW written in the hearts of those that follow Christ,

Why would you claim this? Im sure if Gods law was written in our heart and He put it there, we surely would be keeping the law. Do you have a scripture that says the law is now written in hearts?

 

[Klee shay]

But, we are no longer bound to death by the written law. Christ fulfilled this. Upon His death a NEW covenant was created in which we are now NO LONGER BOUND TO DEATH THROUGH THE WRITTEN LAW.

If you could provide scripture to this effect; it would help me see where you're coming from better. I'm aware that Jesus said he came to fulfill the law; not destroy it; and this is where I'm not entirely convinced that the law has been done away with. If Jesus said he was not going to destroy the law, wouldn't that mean it's still in-tact and meaningful?

What meaning it applies to mankind now however, is something I'm still trying to discover through revising what Jesus spoke about in the NT.

I can agree though, we may not be bound to death because of the written law anymore, because Jesus fulfilled it as promised. But then again if the law is now written in our hearts because Jesus fulfilled it; aren't we all the more drawn to understanding that law?

Can you see where I'm coming from?

I certainly don't want to imply that we are bound to obeying the Law as of old times, because that renders the whole coming of Jesus useless. There was important significance however from changing the written law into being written in our hearts; and I'm trying to find out why so I can worship God as he wanted to be worshipped.

That doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to slip out the back and build myself an alter for sacrifices, LOL, but I know the understanding I currently have is based on "contstruct" rather than God's revelation. So I'm looking for the answer Jesus foretold in the scriptures.

That's why it would help me immensely if you could point out the scriptures you were thinking of - when you have the time that is.

Thanks. :D

 

[Jay T]

Having been raised a "Christian" for all my life - no particular denomination favoured...one thing I have always understood to be true. That the Old Law was done away with through the sacrifice of Jesus.

First, one must know that God had 2 laws going on in the Old Testament.
God (Christ) had the 10 commandments, which were written on stone.....and another set of laws written in a book.

Institute of Biblical Knowledge


Deut. 5:22 "These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice, and He added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me".
(Christ only wrote 10 Commandments, HIMSELF, and no more)
***************************************************



LAW of GOD....(spoken by God Himself)....Exodus 20:1,22.
Law of Moses... (spoken by Moses)...Exodus 24:3.
********************************************

LAW of GOD....Was written by God's finger....Exodus 31:18 & 32:16.
Law of Moses....wtritten by Moses ......Exodus 24:4, Deut. 31:9.
*********************************************

LAW of GOD....On stone.....Exodus 31:18.
Law of Moses.... in a book....Ex. 24:4,7 & Duet. 31:24.
*********************************************

LAW of GOD.....Handed by God, its writer, to Moses....Ex. 31:18
Law of Moses.....handed by Moses, its writer, to Levites....Duet. 31:25,26.
****************************************************

LAW of GOD.....placed 'inside' the Ark....Duet. 10:5.
Law of Moses....'outside' the Ark (on the side of it).....Duet. 31:26.
**********************************************

LAW of GOD.....deals with moral concepts.....Exodus 20:3-17.
Law of Moses.....deals with ceremonial, ritual matter (Passover sabbath, Feats of Unleaven Bread sabbath, Sacrificial system, ect.).....Exodus, Leviticis, Numbers, Deuteronomy.
*****************************************************

LAW of GOD.....reveals sin...Romans 7:7 & 1 John 3:4.
Law of Moses....precribes offerings, for sins committed.....Book of Leviticus.
*******************************************************

LAW of GOD....Breaking of LAW is sin.....1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7.
Law of Moses....No sin in breaking (abolished, Ephesians 2:15 & Colossians 2:14-16).
("Where no law is, there is no transgression", Romans 4:15).

**************************************************

LAW of GOD....Christians should keep.....James 2:10-12 & Revelation 14:12, 12:17.
Law of Moses....Apostles gave no such command to keep....Acts 15:24.
*******************************************************

LAW of GOD....Judgment by it in the Day of God's Judgment......Ecclesiastes 12:13,14 & James 2:10-12.
Law of Moses....Not to be Judged by it.....Colossians 2:16
*********************************************************

LAW of GOD.....Christian who keeps this Law is blessed in his deed.....Romans 2:13 & James 1:25.
Law of Moses....Christian who keeps this law is 'not' blessed....Galations 5:1-6.
**********************************************************

LAW of GOD....Paul said: "I delight in the Law of God....Romans 7:22.
Law of Moses.....Paul calls this law, a 'yoke' of bondage'....Galations 5:1 & Acts 15:10.
*************************************************************

LAW of GOD......Established by faith in Christ.....Romans 3:31.
Law of Moses...abolished by Christ....Ephesians 2:15.
**********************************************************

LAW of GOD....Christ was to magnify the Law and make it honorable....Isaiah 42:21
Law of Moses....'Blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us'....Colossians 2:14.
************************************************************

LAW of GOD...."We know that the Law is spiritual", Romans 7:14.
Law of Moses....."The law of carnal commandments", Hebrews 7:16.
*********************************************************

I was wondering where the scriptural evidence for this was. If anyone could highlight some specific scriptures for me, that would be appreciated.

Satan's objective is to get the Christian world to reject God's law......so that he may easily destroy Christians.....
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation

 

[Georges]

Georges,

What you fail to take into consideration is that Christ need NOT teach what Paul did for Christ 'lived among us in flesh' at the time of HIS teachings. Paul came along 'later' and AFTER EVERYTHING had been fulfilled.

Trouble is, not "everything" has been fulfilled....it won't be until the Messianic Kingdom Age is complete.....

In order to COMPLETE the teachings of Christ, Paul was directed by the Spirit to MANY details that Christ did not offer or were simply NOT documented.

Again....as I've posted previously...if you want to trust one man's inspiration (without witnesses)...be my guest...If what he says can't be established by the Law and the Prophets....then....it's false. The Spirit had Paul complete what Christ could not? The Spirit had to explain it to Paul because the other Apostles were too stupig to get it? PHOOEY........

For you DO realize that EVERYTHING that Christ offered was NOT written down, right?

Of course I realize that...but what Christ did offer was in agreement with the Tanach....What Paul offers I not so sure on (at least as it appears in the letters).

Klee, I believe that your understanding is closer to what we have been offered than those that teach the opposite. For Christ came to 'fulfill' the law. At the point of His death, it WAS fulfilled. The law was a 'teacher' NOT meant to ALWAYS be as it was in the beginning. For in the beginning man was confined to a 'law' written in stone'. After the 'fulfillment of the law', 'laws' written in stone were NO longer what we are to live by. But NOW and since the death of Christ, those that accept the Son will have the laws written in their hearts.

The new covenant isn't in full effect untill the Messianic Kingsom period. What Christians experience now is a small taste. And, the Law wasn't "fulfilled". Christ came to show us how to live it more fully....whithout the trappings of man made law.

There have been a number of 'different' covenants offered throughout history. The 'law' was one such covenant. It was foretold that it would ONLY be for a 'time' for there would come a time when we would NO LONGER be bound to the 'written law'. That time has come and gone and you seem to understand this.

The Law is one such covenant..."is" because it is still in effect. Christ (The Prince in Eze 40-46) performs sacrifices during the future Messianic Millennium, so the "Law" is today, and in the future in effect. Klee...I will ask you who has it more right when it comes to the Law? Does not Rick's info on "The Law" make much more sense?

There is a time coming soon where NO man will be able to buy nor sell save he have the mark. For those that accept the mark they have sealed their doom. What about the rest. If we were still bound by a 'written law' then if we were to lie or steal in order to survive, then we would be 'bound to death' for these sins.

Ima of course is caught in the "Law is Death" trap.....a false teaching by Paulinists....Believers are not bound by the Law, they observe the Law out of respect for God....

That is NOT the case. For we are no longer bound to judgement for our works, but the PURPOSE for our works. As the law is NOW written in the hearts of those that follow Christ, so too will we be judged by that 'which is in our hearts.'

Can't have it both ways....ethier the Law is evil and leads to death, or the Law is good...so good that it is written in our hearts....

WHICH IS IT?

If someone claims the law is a burden and leads to death, then how can it be written in our hearts?



This WILL be revealed upon judgement and there will be no NEED for conviction for ones OWN heart will convict them once they are no longer able to fool themselves into believing that they can lie to God or themselves.

So, we are certainly to DO that which is righteous to do, and avoid that which is unrighteous. But, we are no longer bound to death by the written law. Christ fulfilled this. Upon His death a NEW covenant was created in which we are now NO LONGER BOUND TO DEATH THROUGH THE WRITTEN LAW.

Yet that same law is written in our hearts? Can't have it both ways....The answer must be that the Law is Good and it's a Paulinist false teaching that the Law is bad.


And for those that believe that we are still bound to the written law. Boy, you better make sure that you learn ALL OF IT and FOLLOW ALL OF IT.

Again, Ima is like most of Christianity is running on the Paulinist "The Law is a burdern that leads to death" mousewheel...."You'd better follow it all", that the biggest line they use to scare you....no one in the OT followed it all, yet God forgave them (as the Torah provides means for that). Because of God's goodness you follow it the best you can....You fall, repent, and get back at it....and yes, you do it for salvation....because you believe God...and are trying to act righteously by obeying his word....Just as Christ did.

For as I stated previous, we WILL be judged by 'what's in our heart'. And, if you believe that you WILL be judged by the written law, you probably will be for that is your faith.

Again, Ima is missing the picture by the Paulinist propaganda. Men will be judged by their reaction to sin....As God is a God who is quick to forgive, if a man transgresses the Law, God will forgive the repentent heart....As Ima is quick to miss, the Law is given as a goal for men to strive to achieve....a way of living righteously. A set of guidelines that God has given man to live righteously, yet Paul says it's rubbish. And worst of all, he says that "you" don't have to strive for righteousness because Christ has done it for you. That contradicts what Christ himself had said. Christ commanded that we keep the law (as he lived and taught).

But, Christ HAS set us free, and free we are indeed, Unless we are foolish enough to refuse this freedom and instead choose to be bound by the 'written law'.

Again, we are not bound by the Law, in Chirst, we are free to practice the Law....Perhaps the confusion is "What is the Law"....Maybe you are confusing the "man made" laws which surround Torah Law....Jesus did/will fulfill everything in the Law and Prophets, but he was against the "man made" Rabbinic laws that surrounded the Torah Law...the "man made laws" are indeed bondage....Torah law is not.

And, if you choose the 'written law' to be bound to, you are bound to ALL OF IT. Not just what you pick and choose to follow.

Rubbish...Paulinist propaganda...and the very reason he was called to the carpet in Jerusalem.

 

[Georges]

I'm sure Timothy would have been hacked off if he knew he really didn't have to be cut...."nailed to the cross" is the biggest desception purputrated by Pauline Christianity.

Maybe a better wording for "nailed to the cross" would be "fulfilled in Christ". Shadows of the law that prophecied of Christ and were fulfilled in His coming.

I had my 2 sons circumcised. But not because i was following any law.

Computer down...sorry for the delay....

Yes fulfilled is a better word, yet Christ himself as the Prince in Eze 40-46 will teach Torah and even perform sacrifices during the Messianic Millennial period....so not all was fulfilled at the cross....a portion, yes....that is all the prophecies concerning his first coming. However, the greatest is yet to come.

My folks had me circumcised also, and I'm sure it wasn't because of the Law. I had my sons circumcised and it wasn't because of the Law. But knowing what I know now, I would do it because it would identify me (and my household) as believers in God and his promises.

PS....I'm sure glad that my folks did it then...just means when I proselyte to Judaism, I'll only have to go through a ceremonial circumcision...

 

[Klee shay]

Thanks for that scriptural reference material Jay T.

It may take me a while to get through but I'll get through it eventually. So thanks again for sharing. :D

I liked reading Isiah.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I'm sure Timothy would have been hacked off if he knew he really didn't have to be cut...."nailed to the cross" is the biggest desception purputrated by Pauline Christianity.

Maybe a better wording for "nailed to the cross" would be "fulfilled in Christ". Shadows of the law that prophecied of Christ and were fulfilled in His coming.

I had my 2 sons circumcised. But not because i was following any law.

Computer down...sorry for the delay....

Yes fulfilled is a better word, yet Christ himself as the Prince in Eze 40-46 will teach Torah and even perform sacrifices during the Messianic Millennial period....so not all was fulfilled at the cross....a portion, yes....that is all the prophecies concerning his first coming. However, the greatest is yet to come.

My folks had me circumcised also, and I'm sure it wasn't because of the Law. I had my sons circumcised and it wasn't because of the Law. But knowing what I know now, I would do it because it would identify me (and my household) as believers in God and his promises.

PS....I'm sure glad that my folks did it then...just means when I proselyte to Judaism, I'll only have to go through a ceremonial circumcision...

What (age-wise) is the cut-off point (excuse the pun :D ) for circumcision?

 

[Georges]

How old was Abraham? How old were the men of Israel when they entered the promised land? I guess you have until the day you die....if you choose to proselyte....

cutoff point...ha ha. :P

 

[Vic C.]

How old was Abraham? How old were the men of Israel when they entered the promised land? I guess you have until the day you die....if you choose to proselyte....

cutoff point...ha ha. :P

LOL, yeah, I thought that was funny too. :-D

Sputnik, that is something I would say. :

 

[Jay T]

No Law.....No Sin....No need of a Savior !

 

[mutzrein]

Cut off point!? : That's the best one I've heard in yonks.