The Lord Loves You

[Davies]

Now since according to the false teachers, God and Christ Loved all men without exception, and it appears that nothing can separate the objects of their Love from their Love, then all those who shall yet hear the words of Matt 25:41

They can be assured that while they are in everlasting torment and fire, and cursed, that God and Christ still Loves them.

savedbygrace57,

Even if we disagree that God loves everyone or not, I don't think we should resort to calling each other false teachers over that. You sound angry, and judgmental when you say that. Not that we can't discern when someone is teaching something non-biblical. If we agree on the essentials of the faith, God's love for everyone is a secondary issue, then we should especially love the bretheren, and our enemies too.

- Davies

 

[savedbygrace57]

Why God hates some !

Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Mal 1:2-3

2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

One of the main reasons why God hates some is to manifest more clearly the Love that He does have for the ones He does Love. God's Love is not properly perceived, if it is not seen from the background of others that He hates ! That is God's point in Mal 1:2-3 ! They were both brothers, both sinners, yet God only Loved Jacob !

1 Jn 3:16

Hereby perceive we[Believers] the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 6:44-45

If God Loved all men without exception, then all men without exception shall come to Christ ! Which we know is not true See Jn 5:40

Jn 6:44-45

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Now lets compare Ps 94:12 and Jn 6:45

Ps 94:12

12Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

Now whom God Loveth, He chasteneth Heb 12:6

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Now who the Lord Loveth, He chastens and teaches out of His Law ! And those so blessed, come to Christ, for they are Sons or Children.

Now all that are taught of God and learned comes to Christ Jn 6:44-45.

So if all men without exception do not come to Christ [believe in Him] then scripture testimony is false. God teaches men the Law when He as promised, puts it into their hearts at regeneration or New Birth Jer 31:33

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. See also Heb 8:10;10:16. Now scripture gives only one particular seed that God promises to chastn, and that is the seed of David, a Type of Christ Ps 89:29-32 and not everyone in the world without exception, the seed of David is the same as the seed of Abraham, which means God's Elect !

 

[LightningStrikeSurvivor]

Heaven....is the state of mind that descends on us when we repent of our sin.

We will all “go†to heaven if we all repent of our sin. Only those who repent of their sin will “go†heaven.

What happens if we repent all our sins but then sin again just before dying? Do we still go to hell?

Is the intent to repent good enough?

 

[Classik]

Why would I willingly sin?

If you are guilty of one offence you are guilty of all!

Scary?

Heaven is spotless and perfect and can't allow any form of contamination - no matter how small.

Moses was a good man. He did good at all times. A single disobedience denied him the Promised Land.

A 99.9% purity does not qualify man for heaven. A 100% does!

 

[Davies]

What happens if we repent all our sins but then sin again just before dying? Do we still go to hell?

Is the intent to repent good enough?

LightningStikeSurvivor,

When a person comes to faith in Jesus, his sins are forgiven, and he is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

You'll have to study the Scriptures to debate whether your salvation is forever or if you can lose it. Some passages my suggest you can. I don't personally believe that. I think once you're saved, you're saved.

The payment for our sins, the blood of Jesus, was a one time transaction. There is no further sacrifice for us. Anyone who says they don't sin after coming to faith, frankly, is a liar. But if we do sin, we have and advocate with the Father, and He is worthy to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

- Davies

 

[Ace1234]

The beast and false prophet represent real people. The question isn't whether He CAN rescue them. Of course He can. The question is WILL He rescue them. And the answer is no. God has made no provision for salvation for fallen angels and for humans He has set the requirement of faith. If you don't meet the requirement you won't be saved. God could still save you but He won't.

I often wonder about salvation for fallen angels, why would you think they can't be saved?

Paul in Col. 1: 20 "For by Him were all created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all were created by Him, and for Him: and He is before all , and by Him all consist... and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be in earth, or in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has He reconciled" (Col. 1:16-17, 20-21).

Seems the verse reads all were made for and by him and that even being in the heavens can be saved by the cross, note underlined text.

Note that most bible include the word " all things" in this verse incorrectly, the word "things" was an added word that didn't exist in the orignal text and included in most bibles in later transitions for effect, so it would read to "reconcile all unto himself whether they be in earth, or in heaven, how...through the cross. Seems possible beings in heaven can or need salvation. Some suggest heaven here means the outer heavens, some think heaven itself, but not sure that angels with God would need salvation. It is possible that they may have a nature that isn't totally pure, as Satan obviously had freewill. But it seems clear at the beginning all beings, powers...everything is subject to the cross.

What do you think?

 

[elijah23]

I am always hearing people say the Lord is vengeful and will torture most people forever in hell.

This is not true. The Lord loves us. He will discipline us when we misbehave, but he does that for our own good, knowing what kind of trouble we will get ourselves into if we don’t repent of our sin.

I've lost track of this thread since originally posting it but I will add this to my original post:

I believe the only way the Lord would punish us forever is if we sinned forever. Once we stop sinning he stops punishing us.

Another way to put it is that when we sin, we suffer the natural consequences of our sin, which are painul. When we stop sinning, there are no more such consequences to suffer through. We are free from pain.

 

[savedbygrace57]

A Converting Love !

Rev 1:5

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

We know it is a Myth that Christ Loved everyone without exception, simply because scripture testimony tells us that those He Loved, He washed them from their Sins in His own Blood.

That means He saved them. Having been washed from our sins is Salvation !

Now, there are many who shall die and did die in their sins ! Jn 8:21,24

Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So how could Jesus have Loved these whom He declares shall die in their sins ? Because if He Loved them, He washed them from their sins by His own Blood !

Not only that, He also, those whom He Loved and Washed, He made them as a consequence Kings and Priests unto God, His Father, which speaks to their New Birth and Conversion ! Vs 6

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ's Love is a converting Love, at least the Christ I serve is !

 

[Former Christian]

Man's love is conditional love. If God and Christ love conditionally, it only proves that God and Christ is a fabrication of man.

FC

 

[savedbygrace57]

The effect of God's Love !

1 Jn 4:19

We love him, because he first loved us.

God does not Love all men without exception because all men without exception do not Love God and Christ ! A evidence of God's Love for a person, is that the one being Loved by Him shall be caused to Love God in Return, and so we have the words of our Text "We love him, because or since he first loved us."

Also that is why Jesus said this to unregenerate jews Jn 8:42

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

And that goes for anyone, If God Loves you, He is your and you would Love God, and His Christ, there are no exceptions.

Jn 16:27

27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Again, an evidence that men have been Loved by the Father, because they Love Christ and believe in His Mission from their Father !

Ones Love to God and His Christ is the Fruit of God Loving them !

All who do not Love Christ, let them be accursed ! For God does not Love them 1 Cor 16:21-22

21The salutation of me Paul with mine own hand.

22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Paul would dare not say that if He believed these men were Loved by God..

 

[Sinthesis]

God is not a hypocrite. If God didn't love His enemies, then He would have never sent His Son.

Luk 6:27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 - Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 - And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also.
Luk 6:30 - Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
Luk 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 - For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 - And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 - And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 - But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 - Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.​

 

[Davies]

Hi Sinthesis,

Along the same lines, I like the passage in Matthew 5 because it plainly states one way in which God loves His enemies by allowing the sun and rain fall on just and the unjust. Another way of saying the same thing is God gives life to the just and unjust. Isn't that love?


Matthew 5:44-46
New King James Version (NKJV)
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[a] 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

- Davies

 

[savedbygrace57]

Hast loved them, as thou hast loved me !

Jn 17:23

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Now if God Loved all men without exception, then He must have Loved them as He Loved Christ. In context, Jesus is not only speaking of His Disciples, but of also all them that shall believe on Him through their word Jn 17:19-24

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

The word AS is the greek adverb kathōs:
according as

a) just as, even as

b) in proportion as, in the degree that

They are Loved in the same degree , even as God Loved His Son !!

This means, those Jesus will yet say this to Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If those who teach the false doctrine that God Loves all men without exception, then, these here Christ is speaking to in the Judgment, whom He will say to them, I never knew you, they were Loved by His Father in the same degree that the Father Loved Him !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Propitiation for our sins !


We know that God does not Love all without exception because if He did, all without exception would have had all their sins taken away and could not be punished for their sins, because scriptures says

1 Jn 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

You see that ? God's Love was demonstrated to those He so Loved, that He sent His Son the Lord Jesus Christ to be the propitiation for our sins.

Now, those who have and shall die in their sins, it is evident that Christ was not the propitiation for their sins, meaning He did not satisfy God's Law and Justice for them, so consequently they must remain unbelievers and die in their sins Jn 8:24

24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Its no doubt about it, Christ is being even now for all that He died for the propitiation for their sins before the heavenly mercy Seat and Throne of God.

The word propitiation here is the greek word hilasmos and means:

an appeasing, propitiating continually !

2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation

The Lord Jesus Christ for all them God Loved, He has established everlasting peace with God for them.

Its a Peace that the Son of God Made with His Blood Col 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Peace is the fruit of propitiation, God is at Peace with with every soul Christ died for, and that is the fruit of His Love !

Now, those who shall yet hear these words Matt 7:23

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God did not Love them, and did not send Christ to be the propitiation for their sins, because if He did, God would be obligated, for Christ's sake, to receive them into His Favor , because His Law and Justice had been satisfied on their behalf by His Son !

 

[childeye]

But all that God does is Love. Even punishing sins is His Love. Therefore Esau said, in where have you loved me? And God answered, in that I loved Jacob.

As we know, Esau was blessed by all the wealth his brother had acquired from the blessing.

 

[Davies]

One of the biggest myths in the world is that God Loves all men without exception..Scripture never says that..

Today is my Spurgeon day, and because he was so much more talented at communicating then I am, I thought I would share some with you regarding the love of God.

Whatever I believe or do not believe, the command to love my neighbor as myself still retains its claim upon me, and God forbid that any views or opinions should so contract my soul and harden my heart as to make me forget this law of love! The love of God is first, but this by no means lessens the obligation of love to man; in fact, the first command includes the second. We are to seek our neighbor's conversion because we love him. - Charles Surgeon

Because we are waiting for the sons of God to be revealed, we should love all men as Jesus did by offering ourselves as a sacrifice, Romans 12:1. Love thy neighbor.

- Davies

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 3:16

16"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God's Love for the World of the Elect, His People, though they were born by Nature as others, most unholy sinners, but because of God's Great Love for them, He never for a second legally condemned them, neither have they ever been under His punitive wrath. For those things are not consistent with His Great Love for them ! It was God's Love that sent Christ into the world to redeem those He Loved Jn 3:16-17;1 Jn 3:16;4:9-10. All the condemnation legally that the Elect deserved for their revolt against God in Adam, had already been imputed to Christ, their Surety before the foundation of the world !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 17:9,20

9 I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also who shall believe in Me through their word,

Christ refused to pray for the world in general, but for those only who belonged to Him, Believers in Him and those who shall Believe in the Future. Those Christ refused to pray for are those of the reprobate world, those whom God Created as vessels of wrath, and children of hell ! Rom 9:22

22What if God, choosing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction;


Matt 23:15,33

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers! How can ye escape the damnation of hell?


Now it is insanity to suppose that Christ Loved these people and that He gave Himself for them as He Loved and gave Himself for the Church Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,

No real Christian should pray for none but those God has given to Christ, those who shall believe in Him, that is being Christ like.

It is blasphemy to even suggest that Christ came to redeem the children of the devil, whom shall perish in their sins, in God's Justice and Vengeance 2 Thess 1:8

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If Christ death was for these, if God Loved them Jn 3:16, then it was in vain !

 

[savedbygrace57]

How can those who are hated by God, such as those in Ps 5:5, the workers of iniquity, be those of Jn 3:16 ? Those for sure are in a state of separation from God and His Love, if they are hated by Him. This could never be said of those, whom God Loved through Christ Jesus Rom 8:39, because nothing could separate them from the Love of God, which includes Death, which includes Spiritual Death, this word death is defined as:

the power of death Heb 2:14


figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin Eph 4:18

in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell

When God's Elect are in a state of Spiritual death, are they then separated from the Love of God, that is in Christ Jesus ? God forbid ! However the Workers of Iniquity are Ps 5:5, so these cannot be those who God Loved !