The many gods of the Christians

[TruthMiner]

"Welcome back, Silas, how was your trip to the twenty first century?"

"Oh not so good Paul. The Christians are worshiping all kinds of new gods. Like the Jews after Solomon, it is happening all over again."

"Sigh. 'Let God be true and every man a liar.' Well let's hear your report Silas."

"Well, their gods are many. There is the Watchtower god, the Mormon god, the god of the Calvinists, the Lutheran god, the Baptist god, the Sabbatarian god, the Papal god, the Prosperity god, and many others. These have become their idols which they love."

"What manner are these gods, Silas?"

"They are images of the wisdom of men, Paul. They call these images "theology" or sometimes "creeds", various philosophies of God and the meaning of Jesus' words. They have fashioned these images to serve."

"And they serve these images, Silas?"

"Yes brother, at all costs."

"Are there many left who do not serve these gods?"

"Yes brother, but they are few."

"Explain further Silas."

"Paul, the Enemy has deceived many into thinking their faith is founded upon such knowledge."

"The error of the Corinthians again?"

"Yes, brother."

"I should have known. It is so deceptive and tempting."

"That it is brother. They even say boldly, "I follow Calvin, I follow Luther, I follow Wesley."

"And those who see the error follow Christ?"

"Yes brother, but few see. And they even have your letter to the Corinthians to read and they still do not see."

"You are kidding me right?"

"I am afraid not Paul. It is a great seduction to be in love with their philosophies of God and serve them as their gods."

"Yes. How many know this is not the Christian wisdom from God?"

"Few."

"And what do they say when the true followers tell them?"

"They have scales on their eyes like you once did. They think this is the way Jesus wanted them to follow him. They read "Believe in Jesus" and they think it means to believe concepts are true for salvation. And for this reason they dispute and backbite concerning which are the most true ideas, true images, to serve. They argue among themselves what those ideas should be, just like the Corinthians, but much worse. And so they rest their faith on these ideas, these images they have fashioned. They are quite proud of it actually and they are so seduced they cannot comprehend what anyone means when they are told to rather put their faith in Jesus our Wisdom from God."

"Did you try to get through to them?"

"Yes, brother. They refuse to see. You know how this one goes."

"How do they justify this?"

"They got the building materials for their images from the Jewish sacred writings and from the Gospels and your very own words, Paul. Knowing your words were inspired, they believe this validates their images."

"Let it not be!!! And so they follow these images of Jesus they have fashioned for themselves and suppose they are serving Jesus?"

"Yes, brother. They each have their favorite god to serve. They serve the image of their favorite philosophy about God which they have called "theology" to comfort themselves and in this way have made for themselves images of God to serve.... Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic, Watchtower, Mormon, Pentecostal.... these many faiths in knowledge are their idols, many kinds, many gods to serve, and which they call everyone to serve and they teach one another among their own sects to not serve the other gods but to serve only their own. And because they each think their saving faith rests upon believing in these various images of such knowledge, they are trapped and afraid to follow Christ for fear of damnation. They do not see these gods are not Christ and they do not see these images in their minds are gods they have made to serve. And believe it or not Paul, they each accuse one another of following "another Jesus" just as you described to the Corinthians, each insisting their own image in their mind which they serve is the true Jesus."

"Oh that they would lay them down and follow our Lord who lives in their hearts and know these things are but foolishness to God."

 

[gingercat]

How true brother Have you read my threads?

 

[destiny]

But Jesus still has a people in all of that, and they will be refined. We just haven't been through the purification process in America yet, but it's coming.
Some will come forth as gold but many will turn away.

 

[Johny]

If everyone was to read the Bible themselves and have no one to guide them or to discuss with, than wouldn't there be many interpratations of scripture? What's the difference between the Churches or those who make their own interpretations?

 

[mutzrein]

Well written TruthMiner.

 

[stovebolts]

I echo mutzrein's comment.

But Jesus still has a people in all of that, and they will be refined. We just haven't been through the purification process in America yet, but it's coming.
Some will come forth as gold but many will turn away.

Yes Destiny, it is coming. Some will call it a fad, which it is, but it is simply a different fad as fad's go in, and fad's go out. The question becomes, will we embrace it?

There is a big movement in America as seen and heard by Henry, yourself and gingercat among a few. It's an attempt to get back to the roots of Christianity... pre Constitine.

Ephesians 4:1-7 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation by which you are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

 

[Heidi]

If everyone was to read the Bible themselves and have no one to guide them or to discuss with, than wouldn't there be many interpratations of scripture? What's the difference between the Churches or those who make their own interpretations?

I've said this so many times that it's becoming very tiring. As Paul said, what causes divisions between Christians is people worshiping people, as the OP says. But it is always rebutted and argued with. I'd love it if the bible's words were never refuted here in favor of a fallible human being's opinions.

Paul said for "What afterall is Apollos? And What is Paul? Only servants through whom you came to believe-as the Lord assigned each task." If every Christian believed jesus when he said "for you have one teacher and that is the Christ" there would be no division as Paul tells us.

Paul also tells us; "As the Lord assigned to each his task." Paul is giving credit to God for what people do, not to the people themselves. Therefore, there shouldn't be any Calvinists, Lutherans, popians, Mormons, etc. We are all Christians because we all follow Christ, not the teachings of men.

But of course, everyone who follows these different men all say they follow Christ. But that can't be because they all disagree with each other. We have got to get people out of our beliefs and believe Christ's words alone. Only then will there be unity.

 

[Georges]

Very interesting, truthminer.....very interesting...

 

[Imagican]

If everyone was to read the Bible themselves and have no one to guide them or to discuss with, than wouldn't there be many interpratations of scripture? What's the difference between the Churches or those who make their own interpretations?

Johny,

I take it that you are unaware of a personal relationship with the Father.

If the Bible IS the Word of God, is it not possible that God WILL reveal of it what He chooses for each to know? Will EVERYONE know the 'same' things? We are told that gifts will vary from one to another. Is this ANY different than the understanding that God will offer from one to another?

The most important point in a universal understanding of the Word is 'truth'. Not the truth contained in the Word, but the truth it takes for one to admit to his or her own short-fallings. For it is through an inability to accept ones flaws that brings much misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the scriptures.

And Johny, do you not see the division brought about by the 'different' denominations? We were told that we are brothers and sisters, yet denominationalism teaches that 'only' our group are brothers and sisters. Some go so far to accuse any others of 'not' being saved for their differences in understanding. Is this what we 'should' be doing?

Back to my opening statement. If our salvation truly depends upon a personal relationship with God, then HOW can I teach you to have one? I can tell you this, but it's ultimately up to you to develope your own. How can I teach you to do this? Johny, it's up to YOU to develope your OWN relationship with God. It is your responsibility and NO ONE elses. This the churches DO NOT teach. They teach men to follow the churches and their leaders instead of God through Christ. Why? To keep you coming back of course. If they were to teach the truth of individual salvation, after one's first visit, there would be NO reason to return. But, if I simply offer the 'hope' of salvation and DON'T teach actual salvation, one must return each and every week in the HOPE of, one day, receiving such.

As examples of what I have offered:

Tongues in many of the modern denominations. The Bible plainly states that tongues are for them that believe NOT. So, if the modern tongues offered in many churches today 'are real', then obviously their buildings are full of those that DO NOT believe, and therefore could not have a personal relationship with God.

And how often do people seem to continually have a need to be 're-saved'? Is this possible? Christ died ONCE and for ALL TIME. Does He really need to die for you over and over again? I suggest that if one thinks so, then they certainly are not 'born-again'.

Johny, we were told to gather IN His Name, my friend, not AT His Name.

 

[Heidi]

Very interesting, truthminer.....very interesting...

So why don't people listen to me when I say these things? I have quoted 1 Corinthians 3:1-10 so many times I know it from memory. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter as long as they understand from someone. It just gets frustrating at times.

 

[Georges]

Very interesting, truthminer.....very interesting...

So why don't people listen to me when I say these things? I have quoted 1 Corinthians 3:1-10 so many times I know it from memory. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter as long as they understand from someone. It just gets frustrating at times.

Maybe the wording?....Sometimes it takes a different perspective...or angle, or even wording....

I just agree with this particular statement is all.

 

[Heidi]

Very interesting, truthminer.....very interesting...

So why don't people listen to me when I say these things? I have quoted 1 Corinthians 3:1-10 so many times I know it from memory. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter as long as they understand from someone. It just gets frustrating at times.

Maybe the wording?....Sometimes it takes a different perspective...or angle, or even wording....

I just agree with this particular statement is all.

I think you are right. But it could also be timing. I've found that whenever I come to a new forum, I'm always listened to and so are other new people. But when I & others become a fixture, then we aren't listed to as much. I also think that the longer a person remains on a forum, divisions start once again and each person is pidgeon-holed. Ah, we are a sorry lot, aren't we? :roll:

That's why this topic is so important because humans begin to believe or disbelieve humans instead of the bible. If we all simply quoted scripture and never let our egos in there, then all of us would be able to admit we are wrong if our beliefs disagree with scripture. I think that's the key; human pride.

 

[Imagican]

Heidi,

You must not forget that there are many that will be 'unable' to understand this. They have become so enamored with the churches and their teachings that they are not capable of stepping 'outside' what they have come to believe through the deception of others.

As stated, it's amazing how few have 'even read' the Bible, much less have the desire to try and follow it's teachings. Most are satisfied with throwing a couple of bucks in a plate and patting each other on the back each week. Sad but true.

And there CERTAINLY are those among us that have a very good understanding of this. Unfortunately, we are the minority.' That', we have been told from the beginning though, so it should come as NO surprise.

Keep pounding though, there's NO reason to 'give up' or 'give in'. Ours is but to offer the 'truth' to those that are willing to open their hearts and listen.

 

[gingercat]

I have been saying the same things in different ways but I am not eloquent and organized writer as Truthfinder.

He did an excellent job indeed. :angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

You must not forget that there are many that will be 'unable' to understand this. They have become so enamored with the churches and their teachings that they are not capable of stepping 'outside' what they have come to believe through the deception of others.

As stated, it's amazing how few have 'even read' the Bible, much less have the desire to try and follow it's teachings. Most are satisfied with throwing a couple of bucks in a plate and patting each other on the back each week. Sad but true.

And there CERTAINLY are those among us that have a very good understanding of this. Unfortunately, we are the minority.' That', we have been told from the beginning though, so it should come as NO surprise.

Keep pounding though, there's NO reason to 'give up' or 'give in'. Ours is but to offer the 'truth' to those that are willing to open their hearts and listen.

Absolutely! I agree 100%. But I was sad to see just how much a minority we are! I was actually "fortunate" enough not to attend church when I was a child so I wasn't brainwashed by any doctrine. When I became born again, I read the bible and believed all of it. Then when I started going to church, I was shocked to see how many of them disagreed with scripture!

But as Jesus said, toward end times, the "faith of most will grow cold" and Paul says, people "will no longer adhere to sound doctrine but instead surround themselves with a great number of teachers who say what itching ears want to hear." And it's going to get a lot worse as the years go by. So we need to brace ourselves and only believe the bible and not any Tom, Dick, or Harry, who calls himself a pastor. Thanks, Imagican.

 

[destiny]

I echo mutzrein's comment.

But Jesus still has a people in all of that, and they will be refined. We just haven't been through the purification process in America yet, but it's coming.
Some will come forth as gold but many will turn away.

Yes Destiny, it is coming. Some will call it a fad, which it is, but it is simply a different fad as fad's go in, and fad's go out. The question becomes, will we embrace it?

There is a big movement in America as seen and heard by Henry, yourself and gingercat among a few. It's an attempt to get back to the roots of Christianity... pre Constitine.

Ephesians 4:1-7 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation by which you are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Jeff I was talking about the refining fires of tribulation...not home church.
I believe God will purge the 'world' out of His people through tribulations...and I believe persecution is coming soon to the christians in this country soon.
As far as home church goes, I don't push what I choose to do on anybody and I don't like to see others do it.
That is a thing between you and God.

 

[gingercat]

I was sad to see just how much a minority we are! I was actually "fortunate" enough not to attend church when I was a child so I wasn't brainwashed by any doctrine. When I became born again, I read the bible and believed all of it. Then when I started going to church, I was shocked to see how many of them disagreed with scripture!

But as Jesus said, toward end times, the "faith of most will grow cold" and Paul says, people "will no longer adhere to sound doctrine but instead surround themselves with a great number of teachers who say what itching ears want to hear." And it's going to get a lot worse as the years go by. So we need to brace ourselves and only believe the bible and not any Tom, Dick, or Harry, who calls himself a pastor.

Amen Heide! But I believe end times started as soon as Jesus dyed for us.

 

[Heidi]

I have been saying the same things in different ways but I am not eloquent and organized writer as Truthfinder.

He did an excellent job indeed. :angel: :angel: :angel:

Yes, I know you have, gingercat. But your eloquence comes from a pure heart that loves God and that is the best kind of eloquence there is. I've also said it many times and was also ignored, so I know the feeling.

 

[Packrat]

For those of us who are short on understanding and always need more (myself specifically), could we get an interpretation of what that short narrative was exactly about?

What was it advocating? What was it rejecting? How should we read our Bibles? How should we teach truth or learn? Should we go to Church formally or go meet at home?

I just don't understand exactly what it was trying to get across to us. I had the feeling that it addressed at least some of the above questions of mine, but I'd like to get an interpretation of it so I know for certain what it is trying to say.

 

[TruthMiner]

For those of us who are short on understanding and always need more (myself specifically), could we get an interpretation of what that short narrative was exactly about?

What was it advocating? What was it rejecting? How should we read our Bibles? How should we teach truth or learn? Should we go to Church formally or go meet at home?

I just don't understand exactly what it was trying to get across to us. I had the feeling that it addressed at least some of the above questions of mine, but I'd like to get an interpretation of it so I know for certain what it is trying to say.

Your Lord, or God, is that which you serve. For many people, their god has become their creed or their denominational belief system, or similar item, to be served at all costs.

No man can serve two masters.