The Millenium

[reba]

Different views make for more discussions in the forums..

 

[Kathi]

I have a couple of questions regarding your points above:

(a) You list Christ, the 12 Apostles, and David as ruling under the King of kings

1. Who are those who overcome and sit with Christ on His throne (Rev 3:21)? Should these be included in your list among the apostles and David?
2. Which 12 Apostles?
3. What Scripture identifies David as ruling in the millennium? I can not find it if it is there.

a. And might that reference refer to David's seed (singular) being Christ, and not David himself?​

(b) Is death [physical and/or spiritual] eradicated during the millennium?

1. Where in Scripture do you see that sin is eradicated during the millennium? I do not see it.

a. Will men sin [or be capable of sinning] during the millennium?​

2. Where in Scripture do you see that evil is eradicated during the millennium? I do not see it.

a.Will men do [or be capable of doing] evil during the millennium?​

Not all will choose Christ during the 1000 year millennium.Satan will be released at the end and he will deceive the unbelievers Revelation 20:7-10.Those unbelievers will join Satan in a huge battle.

 

[reba]

That's right. But not applicable to the Millenium as yet.

The Kingdom of God, which is the rule of Christ within every believer ("the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU"), was established when people began to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ even while He was on earth. The three wise men from the east (probably the first to believe on Christ) came to worship the King of the Jews, therefore "the Kingdom of God within you" began at His birth. The Roman centurion who said "Truly, this was the Son of God" at the Cross also worshiped the King and had the Kingdom of God within him. The thief on the cross entered that Kingdom that very day.

At present the Lord Jesus Christ is not only seated on His throne at the right hand of the Father, but He is also enthroned in every believer's heart. That is what Christ meant by "The Kingdom of God is within you".

But the Father has said to Him "Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy foes thy footstool" (Heb 1:13;10:13). This will happen during the Great Tribulation (the Day of the LORD), when all God's enemies will be crushed by Christ with the word of His mouth (Rev 19:15). Only after that will He set up His Kingdom upon the earth for one thousand years (Rev 20:4,6). At that time there will be absolute peace and righteousness on earth (Isa 11:1-16), with Satan and all his evil spirits in the bottomless pit (Rev 20:1-3), and all the ungodly destroyed during the Day of the Lord judgments (Rev 19:17-21).

That's right. But not applicable to the Millenium as yet.


These are the words of Jesus... Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Where do the scriptures say the Kingdom of God is not applicable? Your commentary does but our commentaries are not Scripture.

 

[Gregg]

2. Which 12 Apostles?
The eleven and Paul.​

In your OP, you said '(b) the 12 apostles ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel'. Why do you include Paul as one of the 12, and not for instance Matthias (Act 1:21-26) or Barnabas (Act 14:14)?

​

(b) Is death [physical and/or spiritual] eradicated during the millennium? Yes

1. Where in Scripture do you see that sin is eradicated during the millennium? I do not see it. I have not said anything about sin being eradicated.​

Where does Scripture say that death is eradicated during the millennium? As death is not abolished until Rev 20:14.

​

You said this in your OP - 'This by definition means that all sin and evil has already been eradicated through God's severe judgments during the Day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation)'.

I understood by your comment that you meant that all sin and evil has already been eradicated.

But there is no indication that sin and evil will manifest themselves.
a. Will men sin [or be capable of sinning] during the millennium?
There is no indication of this in prophecy.
2. Where in Scripture do you see that evil is eradicated during the millennium? I do not see it. See Ezek 34:25-31; 37:21-28.
a.Will men do [or be capable of doing] evil during the millennium?
No. See Ezek 40:25-29.​

There is no indication that sin and evil will not manifest themselves.

 

[Gregg]

Not all will choose Christ during the 1000 year millennium.Satan will be released at the end and he will deceive the unbelievers Revelation 20:7-10.Those unbelievers will join Satan in a huge battle.

I agree. Their unbelief is a sin, but the OP stated 'that all sin and evil has already been eradicated through God's severe judgments during the Day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation)'. I am disagreeing with the OP that sin is eradicated during the millennium.

 

[Kathi]

I agree. Their unbelief is a sin, but the OP stated 'that all sin and evil has already been eradicated through God's severe judgments during the Day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation)'. I am disagreeing with the OP that sin is eradicated during the millennium.

And I thought that death was possible during the 1000 millennium.If I remember a person would die at the end of the 1000 year millennium if they were not a believer.

 

[Deborah13]

I have a couple of questions regarding your points above:

(a) You list Christ, the 12 Apostles, and David as ruling under the King of kings

3. What Scripture identifies David as ruling in the millennium? I can not find it if it is there.

a. And might that reference refer to David's seed (singular) being Christ, and not David himself?​

I do believe there are several scriptures that show it is Christ. Here's just one in Jeremiah.
Eze 34:23 And have raised up over them one shepherd, And he hath fed them--my servant David, He doth feed them, and he is their shepherd,
Eze 34:24 And I, Yehovah, I am their God, And My servant David prince in their midst, I, Yehovah, have spoken.

Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, I cause to shoot up to David a shoot of righteousness, And he hath done judgment and righteousness in the earth.
Jer 33:16 In those days is Judah saved, And Jerusalem doth dwell confidently, And this is he whom Yehovah proclaimeth to her: `Our Righteousness.'

Jer 33:17 For thus said Yehovah: `Not cut off to David is one sitting on the throne of the house of Israel,

 

[Gregg]

I do believe there are several scriptures that show it is Christ. Here's just one in Jeremiah.
Eze 34:23 And have raised up over them one shepherd, And he hath fed them--my servant David, He doth feed them, and he is their shepherd,
Eze 34:24 And I, Yehovah, I am their God, And My servant David prince in their midst, I, Yehovah, have spoken.

Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, I cause to shoot up to David a shoot of righteousness, And he hath done judgment and righteousness in the earth.
Jer 33:16 In those days is Judah saved, And Jerusalem doth dwell confidently, And this is he whom Yehovah proclaimeth to her: `Our Righteousness.'

Jer 33:17 For thus said Yehovah: `Not cut off to David is one sitting on the throne of the house of Israel,

I agree Deborah, that Eze 34:23-24 refers to Christ being David's seed, who will rule over Israel during the millennium. In contrast to the Malachi's OP, I do not see David characterized as 'king-regent over Israel'; but I see all of the saints seated and ruling with Christ during the millennium.

 

[Edward]

(a) You list Christ, the 12 Apostles, and David as ruling under the King of kings

1. Who are those who overcome and sit with Christ on His throne (Rev 3:21)? Should these be included in your list among the apostles and David?​

All the saints -- who are "king-priests" -- reign with Christ over the earth. This is listed. Those are the overcomers.
2. Which 12 Apostles?
The eleven and Paul.
3. What Scripture identifies David as ruling in the millennium? I can not find it if it is there.
Several. See Ezek 34:23,24; 37:24

a. And might that reference refer to David's seed (singular) being Christ, and not David himself?
Christ says "I the LORD will be their God" (Ezek 34:24)​

(b) Is death [physical and/or spiritual] eradicated during the millennium? Yes

1. Where in Scripture do you see that sin is eradicated during the millennium? I do not see it. I have not said anything about sin being eradicated. But there is no indication that sin and evil will manifest themselves.
a. Will men sin [or be capable of sinning] during the millennium?
There is no indication of this in prophecy.
2. Where in Scripture do you see that evil is eradicated during the millennium? I do not see it. See Ezek 34:25-31; 37:21-28.
a.Will men do [or be capable of doing] evil during the millennium?
No. See Ezek 40:25-29.​

[/QUOTE]

What a good thread. The way I read it, David will rule again (and it sure sounds like during the millennium), and...YHWH said that "I, the Lord will be their God. So David rules, and the Lord is God. I don't think there's any error within that. So Jesus is going to let David be his right hand man. A man after His own heart.

Everybody has a right hand man. Capt. Kirk had Spock, Holmes had Watson, The President always has a 'team' surrounding him, You ever see pics of Donald Trump alone? Nope. And we have our best friend(s).

Have you ever wondered what is the purpose of the millennial reign? I have. If there is something in scripture about why, I am unaware of it. I *think* it may be though, that it's purpose is to, show us how to (should be) live on the earth. The nice place is not just in heaven. We could have lived in peace and prospered for this 6000 years (and didn't)...so this is how we will live...this is how you do it. I think that during the millennial reign that commerce will continue (though a change in most industries is to be expected, lol), Worldwide trade, people will go to work, and worldwide worship of the Lord. The planet will thrive and come back to health with Jesus at the helm. He'll be busy, and having a right hand man would be useful. Not that He couldn't do it Himself mind you, Just that He's that nice to let David (and us!!!) participate and help. Amen and praise the Lord!

Maybe???? sin may be present during the 1K years? Why wouldn't the judicial system be here? Real justice, real truth...free will continues? Satan may be locked up, but that fact alone would not preclude man from sinning on his own. Mans heart is deceitful above all things, so there is much there that the Lord could teach us also, aside from petty typical business disputes which crop up at times and sometimes wind up in court. I do kind of got the feeling that the judicial branch will be open because free will will still be in place.

 

[Kathi]

I agree Deborah, that Eze 34:23-24 refers to Christ being David's seed, who will rule over Israel during the millennium. In contrast to the Malachi's OP, I do not see David characterized as 'king-regent over Israel'; but I see all of the saints seated and ruling with Christ during the millennium.

The Bible says that Christ will take the seat of David.I am not quite sure what that means but I will find out.

 

[reba]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

[Deborah13]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I think it can't get much plainer than that.

 

[Sinthesis]

The Bible says that Christ will take the seat of David.I am not quite sure what that means but I will find out.

'Christ' means 'anointed' or 'messiah', and David was first anointed King of Judah, and then all Israel. In many ways David was a type or shadow prefiguring Jesus Christ, so the idea that Jesus has taken the seat of David is our Christian acknowledgement that the resurrected Jesus is forever King of all Israel.

 

[Malachi]

That's right. But not applicable to the Millenium as yet.


These are the words of Jesus... Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Where do the scriptures say the Kingdom of God is not applicable? Your commentary does but our commentaries are not Scripture.

I said "not applicable to the Millenium AS YET". That's a world of difference. Words matter.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I think it can't get much plainer than that.

White Throne" judgment at the close of the Millennium
This one-day festival occurs right at the end of the seven-day Feast of Tabernacles, which pictures the Millennial Reign of Christ (Rev.20:4; Isa.11). The last or seventh day of the Feast of Tabernacles pictures the FINAL DAY OF HARVEST or INGATHERING -- that is, the final time of spiritual harvest which is pictured by the Great White Throne judgment, when all those who ever lived are resurrected and "judged" according to their works (Rev.20:11-15). This "seventh day" of the Feast is also called "the great day of the feast" (John 7:37), and is the time when God's Spirit is poured out on all mankind (John 7:37-39). It pictures a truly "great day of salvation" when billions will be saved, and will come to know God!

The Plan of God Unveiled!

As we have already seen, in discussions of the previous holy days of God, the Fall Festivals picture the whole Plan of God. The Feast of Rosh Hoshana pictures the call to Repentance (the blowing of trumpets of warning), followed by the Day of Atonement, or Yom Kippur, which pictures the Judgment Day when the Messiah returns to judge the world. This holy day is followed by the seven day Feast of Sukkot, or "Ingathering," which pictures the Millennial Reign of the Messiah, for 1,000 years (Rev.20:1-4). The last day of this feast, the seventh or final day, called Hoshanna Rabbah (The Great Hoshannas), pictures the final day of salvation or harvest -- the Great White Throne judgment, which occurs at the close of the Millennium (Rev.20:5-14).

But what happens AFTER this final period of JUDGMENT of the multiple billions of people on the earth, including all who never understood God's truth, the vast numbers of Gentiles, and those who were not called to be part of the "firstfruits" from the dead? What happens after they have been "harvested" and "in-gathered" into the Kingdom of God?

“New Heavens and a New Earth”

The apostle John records: “And I saw a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away: and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW” (Revelation 21:1-5).

John then describes this magnificent “holy city,” the New Jerusalem, “descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal: and had a great wall and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel . . . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs [that is, approximately 1,500 miles to a side]. The length and the breadth and the height of it are EQUAL” (Rev.21:10-16).

Could this magnificent city be in the shape of the Holy of Holies of God’s Temple -- a huge magnificent CUBE? It will represent the “Holy of Holies” in the earth, which will be the very Throne of God. Those who will be the “Bride” of Christ -- those who are in the first resurrection -- will dwell with God and Christ in this magnificent “Holy of Holies”! They will be part of the divine, celestial, eternal “Trinity” of God -- the Father, the Son, and the Bride (Israel)!

But notice further. Outside this city, in the magnificent New Earth, will dwell ALL THE NATIONS OF MANKIND that will be SAVED, and given immortality and eternal life!

John continues his description: “And the NATIONS of them which are SAVED shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise come into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life” (Rev.20:24-27).

Here the rest of “saved” mankind is described -- those who will enter the Kingdom of God, during the Millennial reign of Messiah, and, those who are resurrected to mortal life to be given their chance for salvation after the Millennium, during the “Great White Throne” judgment period -- the “Great Day of Salvation” represented by Hoshana Rabbah, the seventh and final day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

However, the term “saved” also has a “present” connotation to it -- that is, the Greek word “saved” also means “those who are in a saved condition,” or “those who are in the process of being saved” (see I Cor.1:18, 15:2, II Cor.2:15, II Tim.1:9). Therefore, this verse also has another incredible meaning and fantastic implication. Let’s notice!

 

[Malachi]

The Bible says that Christ will take the seat of David.I am not quite sure what that means but I will find out.

Kathi,
There is no such Scripture with "the seat of David" in the KJV. Perhaps you have this verse in mind, but let's look at it very closely (Isa 9:7): Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

This verse does not say Christ will sit on David's throne. It does say that Christ's government will be "upon" or "over" the throne of David. And that is absolutely true. Christ as "the LORD of Hosts" will rule over David and David's kingdom.

But "upon His kingdom" refers not only to Israel on earth, but to the whole earth, which is Christ's kingdom. David's kingship is limited to Israel, but Christ's Kingship extends over the whole earth. Hence we read of "the zeal of the LORD of Hosts". We need to pay close attention to each word and phrase in the light of all Bible truth.

 

[Deborah13]

White Throne" judgment at the close of the Millennium
This one-day festival occurs right at the end of the seven-day Feast of Tabernacles, which pictures the Millennial Reign of Christ (Rev.20:4; Isa.11). The last or seventh day of the Feast of Tabernacles pictures the FINAL DAY OF HARVEST or INGATHERING -- that is, the final time of spiritual harvest which is pictured by the Great White Throne judgment, when all those who ever lived are resurrected and "judged" according to their works (Rev.20:11-15). This "seventh day" of the Feast is also called "the great day of the feast" (John 7:37), and is the time when God's Spirit is poured out on all mankind (John 7:37-39). It pictures a truly "great day of salvation" when billions will be saved, and will come to know God!

The Plan of God Unveiled!

As we have already seen, in discussions of the previous holy days of God, the Fall Festivals picture the whole Plan of God. The Feast of Rosh Hoshana pictures the call to Repentance (the blowing of trumpets of warning), followed by the Day of Atonement, or Yom Kippur, which pictures the Judgment Day when the Messiah returns to judge the world. This holy day is followed by the seven day Feast of Sukkot, or "Ingathering," which pictures the Millennial Reign of the Messiah, for 1,000 years (Rev.20:1-4). The last day of this feast, the seventh or final day, called Hoshanna Rabbah (The Great Hoshannas), pictures the final day of salvation or harvest -- the Great White Throne judgment, which occurs at the close of the Millennium (Rev.20:5-14).

But what happens AFTER this final period of JUDGMENT of the multiple billions of people on the earth, including all who never understood God's truth, the vast numbers of Gentiles, and those who were not called to be part of the "firstfruits" from the dead? What happens after they have been "harvested" and "in-gathered" into the Kingdom of God?

“New Heavens and a New Earth”

The apostle John records: “And I saw a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away: and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW” (Revelation 21:1-5).

John then describes this magnificent “holy city,” the New Jerusalem, “descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal: and had a great wall and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel . . . And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs [that is, approximately 1,500 miles to a side]. The length and the breadth and the height of it are EQUAL” (Rev.21:10-16).

Could this magnificent city be in the shape of the Holy of Holies of God’s Temple -- a huge magnificent CUBE? It will represent the “Holy of Holies” in the earth, which will be the very Throne of God. Those who will be the “Bride” of Christ -- those who are in the first resurrection -- will dwell with God and Christ in this magnificent “Holy of Holies”! They will be part of the divine, celestial, eternal “Trinity” of God -- the Father, the Son, and the Bride (Israel)!

But notice further. Outside this city, in the magnificent New Earth, will dwell ALL THE NATIONS OF MANKIND that will be SAVED, and given immortality and eternal life!

John continues his description: “And the NATIONS of them which are SAVED shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise come into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life” (Rev.20:24-27).

Here the rest of “saved” mankind is described -- those who will enter the Kingdom of God, during the Millennial reign of Messiah, and, those who are resurrected to mortal life to be given their chance for salvation after the Millennium, during the “Great White Throne” judgment period -- the “Great Day of Salvation” represented by Hoshana Rabbah, the seventh and final day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

However, the term “saved” also has a “present” connotation to it -- that is, the Greek word “saved” also means “those who are in a saved condition,” or “those who are in the process of being saved” (see I Cor.1:18, 15:2, II Cor.2:15, II Tim.1:9). Therefore, this verse also has another incredible meaning and fantastic implication. Let’s notice!

That post about being clear was to what Reba had posted.
You and I see end times very differently, but I won't hold it against you. :biggrin You point out some really good scriptures.