The Muslim or the Christian?

[jasoncran]

muslim dont call isa the son of allah, they call him a great prophet.
what did peter call the lord and what did the lord say.

the son of God must be more then just a prophet. by your thinking elijah all hindus, new agers and jw's and mormons are saved as one can just love the man jesus and not believe in what the bible says about him and who he was.

the hindu considered jesus a reincarnation of their God.

 

[elijah23]

muslim dont call isa the son of allah, they call him a great prophet.
what did peter call the lord and what did the lord say.

the son of God must be more then just a prophet. by your thinking elijah all hindus, new agers and jw's and mormons are saved as one can just love the man jesus and not believe in what the bible says about him and who he was.

the hindu considered jesus a reincarnation of their God.

There is one God, and Jesus was that God when that God decided to walk the earth to preach and be crucified, I believe. You can say Jesus is our savior or you can say God is our savior:

[21] They forgot God, their Savior,
who had done great things in Egypt,
[22] wondrous works in the land of Ham,
and terrible things by the Red Sea. Psalms 106:21-22 RSV

I think if someone loves God with all their heart, soul, and mind, and loves their neighbor as themselves, then that person probably is on the right path.

 

[jasoncran]

uh no, the lord must be one that died on the cross. the jew that doenst accept the lord as christ reads that verse and will say that and not see heaven.

one believe that the lord died on the cross and rose on the third day.

the devils believe the lord and yet where will they be!

only the cross and the Lord that died on the cross spoke about in the bible gets you to heaven.

theres no other way to get to heaven, good deeds dont do it, love thy neighbor doesnt do it. only the cross and the beleive that it cleansed you of all sin get you there. then you can truly love thy neighbor.

 

[elijah23]

uh no, the lord must be one that died on the cross. the jew that doenst accept the lord as christ reads that verse and will say that and not see heaven.

one believe that the lord died on the cross and rose on the third day.

the devils believe the lord and yet where will they be!

only the cross and the Lord that died on the cross spoke about in the bible gets you to heaven.

theres no other way to get to heaven, good deeds dont do it, love thy neighbor doesnt do it. only the cross and the beleive that it cleansed you of all sin get you there. then you can truly love thy neighbor.

Yes the Lord died on the cross. We Christians know that. Does that make us better than the others?

Jesus said do two things: love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and prophets hang on these two commandments.

 

[jasoncran]

of course but you say that the jew , muslim,jw and others that have a close idea of God will make it.

the jew and muslim dont accept the redemptive work of the cross

the jw denies the diety of christ, and the mormon calls christ the brother of satan.

its not about what we say, but what the bible says.

take it up with the writer of the bible, ha logos himself!

 

[elijah23]

of course but you say that the jew , muslim,jw and others that have a close idea of God will make it.

the jew and muslim dont accept the redemptive work of the cross

the jw denies the diety of christ, and the mormon calls christ the brother of satan.

I think anyone who loves the Lord their God with all their hearts, minds, and souls, and loves their neighbors as theirselves, will probably make it.

its not about what we say, but what the bible says.

take it up with the writer of the bible, ha logos himself!

In a recent post you said you didn't believe the Bible when it said that God changed and repented of evil he had intended to inflict on the people of Nineveh, didn't you? These were your words:

one must be born again to enter the kingdom of god. describe this expericence. and one of those intpretations is off of yours. if the lord can change like you say, then he either lied or the bible is in correct

 

[jasoncran]

if you back up and read that i state that i take pards view of it.

its a poor translation in other words.

good works dont get you in. i used to think that stuff and i stole and such like yet i thought that i was a good person. and would see heaven as i did no wrong.

no person is good enough to make it on his own.

 

[elijah23]

if you back up and read that i state that i take pards view of it.

its a poor translation in other words.

good works dont get you in. i used to think that stuff and i stole and such like yet i thought that i was a good person. and would see heaven as i did no wrong.

no person is good enough to make it on his own.

Yes, we have all sinned. We all need forgiveness. Had Jesus not died on a cross, we’d all be in a lot of trouble. We all need the Lord’s help.

I’ll stick with the Revised Standard Version. The King James Version and New King James Version say basically the same thing on the verse in question (Jonah 3:10).

 

[jasoncran]

but you claim something in err here and leave that one discussion over there.

 

[elijah23]

but you claim something in err here and leave that one discussion over there.

I guess you guys have me confused.

 

[jasoncran]

but you claim something in err here and leave that one discussion over there.

I guess you guys have me confused.

your claim is one this, that one only has to love thy neighbor and all those commandments to get to heaven, no need for christ. that is what you seem to say when you claim that jew and muslim, mormon and the jw(though they claim christ died on the stake and is needed to enter the new system of things, but they deny the diety of christ)

 

[elijah23]

but you claim something in err here and leave that one discussion over there.

I guess you guys have me confused.

your claim is one this, that one only has to love thy neighbor and all those commandments to get to heaven, no need for christ. that is what you seem to say when you claim that jew and muslim, mormon and the jw(though they claim christ died on the stake and is needed to enter the new system of things, but they deny the diety of christ)

I believe Jesus is God. That is, God decided to come to earth in a body of a human, and when he did, he was Jesus Christ.

If a Jew accepts God, then perhaps in God’s eyes, he has also accepted Jesus.

Doesn’t this make more sense than a loving God sending all Jews, Muslims, and everything else you can think of to hell?

 

[jasoncran]

if they accept the lord as the bible says how to do it then can no longer be a jew and muslim and so one but a follower of christ

i am hebrew , if i just mention that i accept christ as the messiah to my grandma she may not talk to me for a while. i know i mentioned that i said my uncle should get a christian burial.(she thought this)to wit i never said. she was offended, yet she claims the God of ot is her god. :verysad dont think that i want to see my grandma in hell, i assure i dont, but that;s the way it is.

if i told her that i was gay she problably accept it,but if i mention the lord is the messiah that came, she would disown me!

i am a completed jew, a christian and i dont call myself a jew nor attend the temple.

 

[n2thelight]

My point....If a Muslim followed those commandments,he would not be a muslim....Reason...You can't love Christ without believing that He is the Son of God!!!!

Jesus is God in flesh, I believe. By loving God, it seems to me you also love Jesus, even if you aren't aware of it.

Simple question..Do you believe Christ died and rose from the dead?

 

[Cheyenne K]

Not necessarily. I have met Pagans that believe in their Lord with all of thier heart, souls, and mind. Yet they deny Jesus. Muslims may love their god in every which way. But if it is not the God of the Bible, then it really does not matter. In Islam, they may love their Allah, but their "Jesus" (Isa) is merely a prophet. He was no Messiah. They may believe he existed, however they would have to come to God through Jesus. Not to Allah through Isa. They consider Muhammad the last and greatest prophet, if I am not mistaken. So not only would they not be going through Jesus, but that would be considered idolatry in Christianity.

It seems that the topic that we are debating is more so if Islam and Christianity worship the same God or not.

So why do you think we worship different Gods? Please don’t say it’s because we use different names, because the name has nothing to do with it, I don’t think. A rose by any other name still smells the same.

I’m not aware that the Muslims think of their prophet as a savior, by the way.

I did not mean that they think of Muhammad as a savior, just that they honor him more than other prophets, as he was believed to be the last one and who ascended to Paradise.


It is not because of names that I think we worship different gods. In the Bible, God is given many titles. It is because of the fundamental differences in the religions themselves. There can only be one Truth. If I were to say, “The sky is green,†and at the same time have a man saying, “The sky is black,†the both of us could not be right. Islam tells us that Jesus is not the Son of God; Christianity says that he was most definitely that. It is either one or the other - there is no way around it. Not to mention other things the Bible and Qur’an differ in.


Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. (60)
- Sura 8 Al-Anfal (Medina): Verse 60

Now, in the Bible, Jesus specifically told us to love our enemies and pray for those who hate us. The verse from the Qur’an completely contradicts that. There are other verses that do the same as well, though I do not feel the need to list them.

Point is, either one is wrong or right. If they both believe in the same god, then both should coincide or one should be an amendment to the other. Seeing as the Qur’an came after the Bible, that would be the amendment, as the two books certainly do not agree. By that logic, we should all be Muslims. One can’t say that god said this and then said something that contradicted that and have both be true.

Islam is the same as any other religion with any other deity. Sure, they may love their lord, but if it is not the same Lord and the same God of the Truth, then it does not matter.

 

[Cheyenne K]

Muslims dont beleive Muhamed(SAW) "ascended" to heaven. He(SAW) had natural death like you and I will have. It was Jesus(AS) that Muslims believe "ascended" to heaven, thus not dying, and living in the flesh in heaven.

just wanted to clarify, I actually agree with your position on the matter, so dont go quoting me scrpiture talking about the crusifiction of Jesus(AS) or anything like that. just wanted to clarify your post.

Thank you, I appreciate the clarification. My knowledge of the Qur'an and Islamic beliefs is limited to what I learn on my own and what is taught by the history text books in school.

 

[Tina]

.

Muslims dont beleive Muhamed(SAW) "ascended" to heaven. He(SAW) had natural death like you and I will have. It was Jesus(AS) that Muslims believe "ascended" to heaven, thus not dying, and living in the flesh in heaven.

Really? Did Muhammad died a natural death ? .. Not according to my sources --->

Circumstances surrounding Muhammad's death


Muhammad was poisoned by a Jewish woman, following the conquest of Khaibar, where he took Safiyah as a wife, and ordered the torture and beheading of her husband Kinana, the chief of the Jews at Khaibar.

It was no secret among the wives, that Aisha (the child bride) was Muhammad's favorite, and he made this abundantly clear as death approached.

Even from his death-bed, Muhammad was issuing orders and cursing Christians and Jews.

On the 8th of June, 632 AD Aisha watched Muhammad finally die, slumped on her bosom.

A Post-mortem erection (technically a priapism- a medical condition in which the erect sexual organ does not return to its flaccid state within four hours) has been observed in the corpses of human males. Interestingly, it has also been witnessed in the animal kingdom. Possibly the most famous occurrence being in the Berezovka Mammoth, discovered in 1900. While it is usually observed in victims of hangings, it can also be found in victims of violent deaths by poisoning, fatal gunshot wounds to the brain, or a stroke or other brain embolisms. And it can also be caused by decomposition.

Ali ibn Abi Talib, the fourth rightly guided Caliph of Islam (and also Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin) had exclaimed upon seeing Muhammad's lifeless corpse: "O prophet, thy penis is erect unto the sky!"

Unsurprisingly, this is one "miracle of Islam" that you will not find proudly displayed or posted in the many Islamic da‘wah (preaching) websites or forums.

Muhammad was washed ready for burial, but unlike others, he was washed with his cloths remaining on his body. Once cleaned, they attempted to cover him with triple shrouds, possibly indicating an embarrassing bulge which they then tried to even-out with extra layers of clothings. The last thing they would have desired was for all to know that their prophet remained erect unto his death, and beyond.

Apparently, their efforts were futile. Neither the excessive layers of clothing nor the reported delay in burial helped the situation, and he was buried quietly in the house in which he died, near the Mosque of the Prophet in Medina.

One wonders; if Muhammad was the last prophet of Allah, who according to Islamic beliefs is the creator of the world, how hard (no pun intended) would it have been for this creator to have prevented Muhammad from being poisoned and his penis becoming erect at the time of his death? Did the last prophet of Allah, the pinnacle of humanity, not deserve a respectful death?



If you have a different version of how EXACTLY Muhammad died, let us hear it .....

 

[Tina]

.

wow that version of events seems very neutral, wouldnt you say?

When you post slander like that, I find it hard to beleive you want to know the truth. What benifit do suspect will arise when you post unchristian-like slander like that?

I do not post filthy links which utterly slander your religion and insult Jesus(AS), Why do you do the same to me, neighbor?

So you do not have any other versions of Muhammad's death, do you ??

Except to excuse the records I presented above as "slander" and claiming that he just died a natural death. I stand by what I said until and unless you can present solid evidence from your Quran or other reliable Islamic records to explain how exactly he died.

 

[Tina]

.

If a Jew accepts God, then perhaps in God’s eyes, he has also accepted Jesus.

Doesn’t this make more sense than a loving God sending all Jews, Muslims, and everything else you can think of to hell?

You have a very narrow and warped understanding of the Bible. What is your religious affiliation or denomination ? Do you even know how a person is saved ??

Read this scripture carefully ....


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart†that is, the word of faith which we preach : that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.†For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.â€

 

[Tina]

.

here http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0001.htm

This site seems very similar to the site I posted .... except that the parts about Muhammad being poisoned and his "eternal penis erection" are left out ..... :biglol


Just because the "lewd" parts were omitted, does it necessarily mean that your site is more accurate ?

The funny thing is, your article actually sites no Islamic sources.

No Islamic sources ?? .... Goes to show you didn't even bother reading it properly.


Sahih Bukhari 3:47:786
Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle.

Sahih Bukhari 5:59:713
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."

by the way, I asked you few questions in my previous post, do you mind answering them Tina. Thank You.

What questions ?