The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Natasha]

jennie:



Because God says for it to be a witness to all nations Matt 24:


14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.



Nope, God wants the non elect to hear the Gospel for a witness too !



I have shown a lot in this Thread, read what I have already posted. Thanks..

Hello,

SBG, I cannot understand your view of a loving God that will, willingly choose to save but a few members of His created family. Why on earth would God witness to a nation with no intention of saving any of them, it seems like an "in your face" act to me (not that I believe God would do such a thing). God is no respecter of persons.....period. Just because God knows the end from the beginning does not mean that He chooses to only save a few elect, but that simply, he knows that only a few will "get in the ark", just like in the times of Noah.

My question is, Do you think you are one of the "elect" with more chance of salvation than others? I guess if you do, you are simply reflecting the character of the god you are beholding? Remember, "for God so loved the world (not just the elect) that He gave His only begotten Son".....or are you going to say that this scripture has been perverted too?

God Bless,

Natasha

 

[Natasha]

Matt 1:21


None can be Special to God outside of Christ. Now if we were to take the Angel, the Heavenly Messenger at His word, we would know the extent of Christ death and mission into the world, and who He came to save from their sins. It was a specific people, not everyone without exception !

No....none can be saved outside of Christ. Everyone is special to Him.

 

[turnorburn]

This isn't something new, its confusion, the same as it was that day in the garden.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 

[savedbygrace57]

No....none can be saved outside of Christ. Everyone is special to Him.

Everyone is not special to Him, His People are.

 

[savedbygrace57]

natasha:

Hello,

SBG, I cannot understand your view of a loving God that will, willingly choose to save but a few members of His created family.

I cannot help you on that. But I will tell you this, all are not of God's family, some belong to the devil's family. God does not Love the devil's family.

Matt 13:

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

 

[Natasha]

natasha:



I cannot help you on that. But I will tell you this, all are not of God's family, some belong to the devil's family. God does not Love the devil's family.

Matt 13:

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Well thats interesting.........the tares are in the world, they are growing in the field. So you have both good seed and tares in the world, yet the world is God's elect or God's world.......this just gets more confusing by the second.

 

[savedbygrace57]

natasha:

yet the world is God's elect or God's world

Well, I explained to you the definition of world in the Elect thread, post 14. If you are still confused, then I have done what I could to make it simple, there is nothing else I can do for you.

 

[savedbygrace57]

One of many Blasphemies !

Rev 13:1

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Rev 17:3

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.



The Teaching that Jesus Christ died for all mankind without exception, and yet many of them are in hell, or are on their way there, that He died for, is Blasphemy. It is Blasphemy against the Entire Godhead, The Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

I don't believe there is a more insulting teaching against God in all the world than this Blasphemy. It also is perhaps the Most Popular Teaching worldwide.

What I am speaking of, is that teaching which teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ actually died to make salvation only possible for all mankind.

He is taught to have shed His blood to only make His Salvation possible, and it did not make certain or ensure the Salvation of any. So the shedding of the Blood of Christ did not ensure no ones Salvation !

The ramifications of such an insult against the blood of atonement is huge and many. The Primary consequence of this impiety is that it designates man as his own Saviour, his own Redeemer !

They are Saved or Redeemed ultimately not by what the Blood did or accomplished, but what they did. Thats a Blasphemy !
​

 

[savedbygrace57]

This blasphemy of The Lord Jesus Christ merely making Salvation possible for all Mankind, Means that ultimately, that men are not saved By the Obedience of One as the Gospel declares in Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Yes, to be made Righteous before God is being saved ! How cometh this being made Righteous, by the obedience [Death of Christ] of One or Two ? If Christ death alone does not constitute the Ones He died for Saved or Righteous, then it must be by the obedience of two, which is contrary to this scripture, which is the Word of God ! Thats a Blasphemy !

 

[francisdesales]

This blasphemy of The Lord Jesus Christ merely making Salvation possible for all Mankind, Means that ultimately, that men are not saved By the Obedience of One as the Gospel declares in Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The very verse you cite proves that Christ died for all men. What is blasphemy is to state categorically that Christ only died for certain people, as defined by the cult who invents such teachings... The acts of Jesus in the Gospel do not lead one to think that Jesus only came to die for "His People", the Jews...

 

[savedbygrace57]

Who are the US ?

Isa 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Paul wrote, that "Christ died for our sins according to the scripture "

This no doubt is one of the many OT scriptures that shows us exactly who the us and our sins belongs !

Now who are the US in the Isa passage ? I am certain we know who the Child is to be born, the Son to be given . Its Christ. And it has to do with His coming to die for sins.

But again, who are the US ? Is it the whole world without exception ? Is that who Isaiah meant ? Or does He mean a specific People ? I contend that it's to a specific people. Isaiah is writing to the Israelites, the Chosen People of God, he is not writing the egyptians, or the assyrians, the babylonians, but the Chosen Covenant People of God. In fact, when Christ was actually born, the spiritual minded recognized that Christ coming, birth, was in relation to a Covenant Promise. Lk 1:67-73

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

So, also the Us in Isa 9:6 is the Seed of Abraham !

The Israelites of the OT were a Type, a Picture of Spiritual Israel. Now Spiritual Israel is in existence today as it was then, difference being, that Spiritual Israel then was mainly comprised of the physical descendants of Abraham of National Israel, not so today. I believe everyone Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4, the Spiritual seed of Abraham Gal 3:16 belongs to Spiritual Israel, and all these have been Chosen to Life Eternal. Without question I believe it is the Spiritual Israelites that is meant in the US in our verse Isa 9:6. Christ is born unto all whom He is born into Col 1:27;Gal 4:19.

The US is also the Church, Isa was writing to the OT Church, that is those Spiritual Israelites that for the most part resided in that Nation at that time, but it is also applicable to the NT Church at this present time. Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[savedbygrace57]

francis:

The very verse you cite proves that Christ died for all men.

Thats a false statement. The ones in Rom 5:19, by Christ obedience alone,shall be made righteous. Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If your false assumption is correct, then all of mankind without exception shall be made righteous by the death of Christ, which would make you a universalist, is that what you are promoting ? Well I have news for you, if you are, that also is a false teaching.

 

[francisdesales]

francis:

Thats a false statement. The ones in Rom 5:19, by Christ obedience alone,shall be made righteous. Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If your false assumption is correct, then all of mankind without exception shall be made righteous by the death of Christ, which would make you a universalist, is that what you are promoting ? Well I have news for you, if you are, that also is a false teaching.

Listen carefully...

All of mankind, as an entire entity, as a "Person", is indeed made righteous by Christ. And clearly, Paul is speaking at the universal level with the useage of Adam and Christ. Individually, however, we are judged differently. ALL of manKIND has been redeemed by the Lord Jesus Christ. NO ONE was left out. The structure of Paul's comments make it perfectly clear, the "If, then" statement. IF Adam condemns all men, THEN Christ redeems all men. As I laboured to tell you over and over, you cannot have Christ's effects LESS universal then Adam's, as Paul is stating a lesser (Adam) to a greater (Christ).

You reverse it, saying Adam's work was more powerful and universal then Christ!!!

This says nothing about INDIVIDUAL justification or righteousness, which is where your stumbling block remains on such verses. But now, manKIND has been reconciled with God due to the Son of God's GIVING HIS LIFE FOR THE WORLD.

Regards

 

[Eventide]

Listen carefully...

All of mankind, as an entire entity, as a "Person", is indeed made righteous by Christ. And clearly, Paul is speaking at the universal level with the useage of Adam and Christ. Individually, however, we are judged differently. ALL of manKIND has been redeemed by the Lord Jesus Christ. NO ONE was left out. The structure of Paul's comments make it perfectly clear, the "If, then" statement. IF Adam condemns all men, THEN Christ redeems all men. As I laboured to tell you over and over, you cannot have Christ's effects LESS universal then Adam's, as Paul is stating a lesser (Adam) to a greater (Christ).

You reverse it, saying Adam's work was more powerful and universal then Christ!!!

This says nothing about INDIVIDUAL justification or righteousness, which is where your stumbling block remains on such verses. But now, manKIND has been reconciled with God due to the Son of God's GIVING HIS LIFE FOR THE WORLD.

Regards

Allow me to add an AMEN to this.. and to add that His grace is UNTO ALL and it is UPON ALL that believe..

 

[savedbygrace57]

francis:

Listen carefully...

Now I have showed you your error, I am not no way obligated to keep discussing this with you.

is indeed made righteous by Christ

Thats a Lie. The unrighteous shall not enter in the Kingdom. If all has been made righteous by Christ, Paul was ignorant to it when He wrote 1 Cor 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

[Pizzaguy]

Listen carefully...

All of mankind, as an entire entity, as a "Person", is indeed made righteous by Christ. And clearly, Paul is speaking at the universal level with the useage of Adam and Christ. Individually, however, we are judged differently. ALL of manKIND has been redeemed by the Lord Jesus Christ. NO ONE was left out. The structure of Paul's comments make it perfectly clear, the "If, then" statement. IF Adam condemns all men, THEN Christ redeems all men. As I laboured to tell you over and over, you cannot have Christ's effects LESS universal then Adam's, as Paul is stating a lesser (Adam) to a greater (Christ).

You reverse it, saying Adam's work was more powerful and universal then Christ!!!

This says nothing about INDIVIDUAL justification or righteousness, which is where your stumbling block remains on such verses. But now, manKIND has been reconciled with God due to the Son of God's GIVING HIS LIFE FOR THE WORLD.

Regards

I didn't realize how much I had missed your posts until I read this.

 

[Pizzaguy]

1 Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

That IS a verse in the Bible, but so is this very familiar one:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

It is very simple, He died for all - and left the decision to accept His gift up to the individual.

 

[savedbygrace57]

pg

It is very simple, He died for all - and left the decision to accept His gift up to the individual.

Not the Christ I serve, He died only for His Sheep, and they are saved from their sins, the rest of mankind will damned for their sins.

 

[francisdesales]

francis:

Now I have showed you your error, I am not no way obligated to keep discussing this with you.

My friend, whether you showed me my error or not, you are never obligated to discuss anything with me. I am just not that important to demand such attention...

Now, as to my "error", please review with me again what it was? I missed it...

Thats a Lie. The unrighteous shall not enter in the Kingdom. If all has been made righteous by Christ, Paul was ignorant to it when He wrote 1 Cor 6:9

Like I said, you are confusing individual righteousness with God redeeming mankind by the actions of Jesus Christ. At the universal level, Jesus is our (MANKIND'S!) mediator, since Jesus became one of us. Note carefully, the Gospels. WHO does Jesus associate with? Does He go and seek out the "holy" and "righteous elect"? He said He came for the sake of the sinners. He eats with sinners, common everyday tax collectors and prostitutes. Poor slobs like us - He is not offended by where we came from, as long as we open our heart to His call. The idea that Jesus came only for the "righteous elect" is just not found in Scriptures. He is man's "representative", for the sake of all of mankind, leaving NO ONE out... And as Paul states, Jesus clears up what Adam did. His sin separated all of mankind from God and Christ, as "mankind", the Second Adam, brought us, mankind, back into a relationship with God.

Now, as to individual righteousness, that depends upon accepting our Lord and so forth. But the door is open to ANYONE who knocks, my friend, not just to some select few people. God did not "shrink" the People of God to include only Calvinists. He broke DOWN the walls that some attempt to erect. ANYONE who accepts the gift of faith is found pleasing in God's eyes - yes, even Catholics...

And so, note carefully, Scriptures do not take speak of Adam's sin as being MORE universal than Christ's death. Clearly, Calvinism fails here, as it depends upon Christ's act as being less effective than Adam's act. Paul clearly says otherwise.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

You didn't read my post very carefully. I never said that the unrighteous would inherit anything. I said that all of mankind was redeemed. The potential exists for individuals to turn back to God, by His grace. The subject is about whether Christ died for all men. As the universal Mediator for ALL men, it is clear that He did, despite your preaching. It does not follow that this means that all men will enter the Kingdom. Please do not assume that.

Christ died for the sake of the world. Don't forget that.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I didn't realize how much I had missed your posts until I read this.

That is very kind of you (and Eventide) to make such public statements. I am humbled that God would work through me for such effect...

Regards