The nation of Israel was given the Law,and it was never given to the the Gentiles

[jasoncran]

Yep. Which is why it was abolished on the cross. When a contract is fulfilled it no longer has power over those who entered into it. It's done. The provisions of the Old Covenant with regards to sin and salvation were completed on the cross.

The penalty Israel faced for failing to live up to it's part of the contract was fulfilled in 70 AD, as I have explained elsewhere.

it was to them as the law of christ is to us now. faith first, then comes the marriage(god married isreal that day) and viola kinda the same with us.

are there not rules in any marriage. love first but some basic rules.

forgive the gentile thinkers who say we should be put in subject. the law only applied to isreal.

 

[reba]

Buick ? I would rather be a Vette!

When i say law in regards to Scripture i generally mean the 10. I believe they hold hold true today. Not in the same fashion they did over 2000 years ago..
The biggest bunch of laws, as in how to sacrifice a lamb or to marry ones sister-in-law. Were totally written to the Hebrew children. Do we need to go out and gather manna 6 days a week? Who here builds a hut to live in for a week? Or marries his/her brother-in-law.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

 

[Adullam]

it was to them as the law of christ is to us now. faith first, then comes the marriage(god married isreal that day) and viola kinda the same with us.

are there not rules in any marriage. love first but some basic rules.

forgive the gentile thinkers who say we should be put in subject. the law only applied to isreal.

Even before men documented the law of gravity, the effect of gravity affected all...not just one class of people.

So even if the law was only written by God for the nation of Israel, the effects of the law are in effect for all men. To Israel was given the key to knowledge of the will of God. But people from all nations perceived these laws inwardly in any regard. Did Abraham live under the law? Did Adam live under the law? Yet if they sinned they still reaped the consequences.

So the law does not prefer anyone. The law IS.

 

[Stormcrow]

But people from all nations perceived these laws inwardly in any regard.

So Greeks knew the Jewish priestly cleansing rituals required for performing the atoning sacrifice inwardly???

That was part of "the Law", too.

Or do we just pick and choose those laws we want God to judge others for violating??? 2

 

[jasoncran]

Even before men documented the law of gravity, the effect of gravity affected all...not just one class of people.

So even if the law was only written by God for the nation of Israel, the effects of the law are in effect for all men. To Israel was given the key to knowledge of the will of God. But people from all nations perceived these laws inwardly in any regard. Did Abraham live under the law? Did Adam live under the law? Yet if they sinned they still reaped the consequences.

So the law does not prefer anyone. The law IS.

actually the noahides werent under the law and didnt need to be circumised , noah, nahor and laban werent circumised.

 

[smaller]

So Greeks knew the Jewish priestly cleansing rituals required for performing the atoning sacrifice inwardly???

That was part of "the Law", too.

Or do we just pick and choose those laws we want God to judge others for violating??? 2

You keep insisting on viewing 'the Law' in an external manner.

For your position "walking in the light" means having a flashlight and walking at night.

Such understandings are doomed to failure. The Law is and remains spiritual and is kept 'in heart.' This understanding forces us off flashlights and walks in the dark.

Do you seriously think you are going to lay physical eyes on this matter?

Matthew 12:43
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

We are simply NOT going to be 'seeing' unclean spirits walking around on the street. What are you thinking? Can you not see the above in a spiritual manner? In fact you MUST see it that way in order to 'really' see. Any other view is going to result in nonsense. These are spiritual matters and they are pitted against evil spirit matters.

Neither spirit is going to be 'apparent' in an external fashion.

A 'good spirit' may be perceived through 'external good deeds' and an 'evil spirit' may be perceived through 'external evil deeds' but the fact of the matter is that neither motivating spirit is physically observable.

The scriptures speak to spiritual matters. Internally is where these spirits, these MOTIVATORS function IN MAN.

Scripture tells us all is that all of us are subject to both sides of these ledgers. Scripture takes 'an internal' look at these things.

The Law to you remains 'only' external in nature. That is simply not the case. To understand the Law means to take it within the heart.

It really is Gods Job to write the Law on and in the heart. In those whom this has not transpired, they just can NOT see. They can NOT see. Such remain looking only on the outside of the cup. This was the 'exact' problem of religious Pharisees. They 'appeared' to be legal and clean on the outside of the cup, but internally we know, because they were DISHONEST, they were factually RAVENING WOLVES.

There is no such thing as 'perfectly clean' on the inside of the cup. The person who sees this knows it by the Law Bringer who shows us our internal darkness. We have no need to LIE when the LIGHT has shown us our internal condition.

And we seek THE LIGHT as CHILDREN OF THE LIGHT.

Will pray for an internal candle for ya! My christmas gift to you.

Father, LIGHT that man. Show him his own heart. Take your LAW within him and show him his evil within and enlighten it to overcome IN YOUR LOVE, your LAW OF THE HEART.

Thank you Jesus in advance.

enjoy!

s

 

[smaller]

Jesus gave us an exceptional example of a religious pharisee following the external law and the man who came to factual grips within his heart.

Remember, the LAW is A PARABLE:

Luke 18:
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The lesson of the Law written in the heart is that we are sinners. We are NOT ONE WHIT different than any other sinner.

That same lesson moves our hearts to God in Christ because we KNOW we are in DIRE NEED of His Mercy.

Those who reject His Law as an internal matter have NO NEED. They reject the findings of the LAW in their heart, they justify themselves, they ALIENATE themselves from other people, thinking they are BETTER than their neighbors, those OTHER SINNERS.

They are religious pharisees and they are NOT justified in the LIGHT of Gods Words.

enjoy!

s

 

[Drew]

The law was & is from ETERNITY in all directions!! Rev. 14:6 + 1 John 3:4's heavenly rebellion.

And jewish? not hardly, unless God had Inspired a faulty Gen. 26:5 'documentation' for why Abe was called by Him for Salvation to mankind long before Isaac came on the scene! See Gen. 12:5's 'souls' even won to Christ before any Jew was hybrid!;)

If you check things out, you will find that Salvation was nothing new from day one on. Eccl.3:15

--Elijah

Well, for once agree with Grubal. The Law of Moses:

1. Was given to Jews and Jews only;
2. Was "abolished" at the general time of Jesus.

 

[Drew]

When i say law in regards to Scripture i generally mean the 10. I believe they hold hold true today. Not in the same fashion they did over 2000 years ago.. The biggest bunch of laws, as in how to sacrifice a lamb or to marry ones sister-in-law. Were totally written to the Hebrew children.

The Law of Moses was given to Jews only. Otherwise Paul would not write this:

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,...

Paul's point is clear: if one could be justified by the works of the Law of Moses, only Jews could possibly benefit, precisely because, as is otherwise clear from the Old Testament, the Law of Moses was given to Jews only.

And no, this does not mean that its "OK" for non-Jews to commit murder, commit adultery, etc.

That tired argument is cleary invalid, yet it annoyingly persists.

 

[smaller]

The righteousness apart from the Law is witnessed by THE LAW and THE PROPHETS.

Those who claim righteousness apart from the LAW while simultaneously DENYING the witness of same from the LAW and the PROPHETS would seem to be a little misguided to me.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

s

 

[smaller]

For those who 'think' that THE LAW does not speak to the Churches:

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

For those who somehow think that THE LAW is against us:

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: -

God forbid means NO. The LAW is not against the promises of GOD.

You who try to PIT the LAW as being 'against' the promise of FAITH are not speaking truthfully.

The LAW is not against FAITH nor can it be. God is not against Himself in THE LAW.

Paul clearly issues this about the Law:

1 Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully

There is no use saying the LAW can't be USED when Paul outright states this is not the case, and does so state TO THE CHURCH.

The Law says without any uncertainty: All have SIN.

I accept the fact of LAW in this regard. It is proven by what is written beyond any doubt, that lawlessness is within ALL people, believer or unbeliever and the LAW is for the LAWLESS.

One can not 'die' to sin without accepting the FINDINGS of LAWLESSNESS which is SIN within them.

In this way THE LAW schools us to no uncertain fact.

s

 

[Drew]

The righteousness apart from the Law is witnessed by THE LAW and THE PROPHETS.

Those who claim righteousness apart from the LAW while simultaneously DENYING the witness of same from the LAW and the PROPHETS would seem to be a little misguided to me.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets

s

I am not sure what your point is. Paul is saying that God has fulfilled His promises through a means other than the Law of Moses, but that, of course, the Law of Moses, and the story of Israel that goes with it, is part of the overall context in which such promises are fulfilled.

A key point: Paul is here talking about God's own righteousness - in the sense of
God's fidelity to His covenant (and the implications of that covenant for the whole world - remember that God promised that Israel would be a blessing for the whole world). Paul is not, by contrast, describing a righteous state that is imputed or ascribed to the believer.

 

[Drew]

For those who somehow think that THE LAW is against us:

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: -

God forbid means NO. The LAW is not against the promises of GOD.

You who try to PIT the LAW as being 'against' the promise of FAITH are not speaking truthfully.

The LAW is not against FAITH nor can it be. God is not against Himself in THE LAW.

I agree, but this does not mean that the Law of Moses is still in force in any sense. Paul's argument is basically this: The Law of Moses is now retired but not because it was a bad thing, but rather because it is a good thing whose goal has now been achieved - therefore the Law of Moses can be retired.

 

[smaller]

I am not sure what your point is. Paul is saying that God has fulfilled His promises through a means other than the Law of Moses, but that, of course, the Law of Moses, and the story of Israel that goes with it, is part of the overall context in which such promises are fulfilled.

You want to claim faith apart from the Law, right?

The Law itself MAKES THAT CLAIM as a witness to that FACT. The Law and the Prophets WITNESS to righteousness APART FROM LAW.

Why would you throw away the Word of God that witnesses to what you are trying to claim? It makes no sense. If the Law and the Prophets witness in writing, righteousness apart from LAW, why flee from that which upholds your positions?

A key point: Paul is here talking about God's own righteousness

Your point does not exist. The Law and the Prophets witness to RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM LAW.

If you are claiming righteousness apart from LAW and the LAW witnesses to righteousness apart from LAW what is the point? The LAW can not logically be against that which you 'claim' because it CLAIMS THE SAME.

Where then do you see the LAW being against you when Paul says it witnesses FOR exactly what you are claiming?

Your claim in short is claiming against itself when claiming against the LAW.

The LAW makes YOUR CLAIM.

You are trying to cut your nose off to spite your face.

You claim righteousness apart from LAW.

LAW and PROPHETS witness ALSO to that claim.

Yet you DENY the LAW and claim that witness VOID? Is that supposed to make sense?

VERY strange there Drew. Sorry.

s

 

[smaller]

I agree, but this does not mean that the Law of Moses is still in force in any sense. Paul's argument is basically this: The Law of Moses is now retired but not because it was a bad thing, but rather because it is a good thing whose goal has now been achieved - therefore the Law of Moses can be retired.

The LAW OF MOSES witnesses to righteousness apart from LAW.

You can not logically be against anything but your own absolute misunderstanding of the LAW OF MOSES.

You can not see it makes your claim because YOU DENY IT. You only see THE LAW of MOSES as being AGAINST your claim when in fact it is a WITNESS in behalf of your claim.

Therefore the ONLY logical conclusion is that DREW does not understand his ally and has a sorely misguided understanding of his written witness to his OWN CLAIM.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

All of you who want to claim righteousness apart from the LAW and make the simultaneous claim that the LAW is somehow against you are really quite off track.

Here, will state again Paul in brief.

Righteousness without the LAW is witnessed BY THE LAW!

Is this not sinking in yet?

s

 

[Drew]

You want to claim faith apart from the Law, right?

I am claiming that God has demonstrated His own righteousness - His faithfulness to His promises - in a mode that has fundamentally bypassed the Law.

As per my earlier post, I believe that Paul is not talking (here at least) about a righteous status that can be predicated of us.

Why would you throw away the Word of God that witnesses to what you are trying to claim? It makes no sense.

What I am asserting makes perfect sense. Just because the Law "witnesses" to what God has done does not necessarily mean it continues to apply.

Paul is basically making this argument: The Law of Moses was an integral part of the plan that leads to the Cross. It is at the Cross - through the work of Jesus - that God demonstrates His own righteousness in the sense that the cross fulfills the objective that the Law was aiming at that Israel, as represented by Her Messiah Jesus, would be a blessing to the world. But with the goal of the Law met, the Law is no longer needed and can be retired with honour.

 

[Drew]

All of you who want to claim righteousness apart from the LAW and make the simultaneous claim that the LAW is somehow against you are really quite off track.

Who said such a thing?!

I will join you in berating such a person!!!

You could, of course, not possibly be referring to me since I have posted nothing that could be reasonably read as an assertion that the Law of Moses is "against" anyone.

So it must be someone else. Pry'thee, who is this scurrilous knave?

 

[smaller]

I am claiming that God has demonstrated His own righteousness - His faithfulness to His promises - in a mode that has fundamentally bypassed the Law.

The Law witnesses to what 'you' personally, not GOD are trying to claim.

God is not in need of righteousness apart from LAW. God has never changed. Your claim is therefore invalid.

The 'need' of righteousness apart from LAW is the CLAIM that 'we' need, not what GOD needs. God didn't need a claim for this matter for Himself.

As per my earlier post, I believe that Paul is not talking (here at least) about a righteous status that can be predicated of us.

If you are making a claim that the Law somehow provided God His Righteousness apart from the law there would have been no need for Him to make that claim to Himself. One might presume He already knew that.

What I am asserting makes perfect sense. Just because the Law "witnesses" to what God has done does not necessarily mean it continues to apply.

Again, if you are claiming righteousness apart from Law and the Law WITNESSES to what you claim you can not possibly be against the LAW as there is NO DIFFERENCE between YOUR CLAIM and the WITNESS of THE LAW.

You claim that the LAW no longer witnesses to righteousness apart from Law?

Righteousness apart from LAW is the WITNESS of the WORD OF GOD in the Law and the Prophets. You seriously think the very claim you think you uphold in Christianity is no longer valid?

That witness of THE WORD of GOD is the foundation of Christianity. And that WITNESS is RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM LAW stated IN LAW by GODS OWN WORDS.

You throw away that which you do not understand.

s

 

[smaller]

Who said such a thing?!

I will join you in berating such a person!!!

Why pray tell is the Law any different than your claim when it is identical?

If the Law and the Prophets say 'righteousness apart from Law' is a fact, what is the point of throwing away YOUR OWN CLAIM? Your own claim goes out the window with you.

Sorry Drew, you make no sense whatsoever. If you understood the LAW OF MOSES is a witness to RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM LAW, there seems to be little reason to throw it away or invalidate it.

It's quite bizarre actually to see people try to do this.

s

 

[smaller]

Here is the heading of this thread:

"The Nation of Israel was given the Law and it was NEVER given to the Gentiles."

Yet we see for no uncertain FACT that 'righteousness apart from the LAW' is witnessed BY THE LAW and the PROPHETS.

So, IS righteousness apart from LAW witnessed BY the LAW not given to GENTILE BELIEVERS?!

Surely you jest?!

Such 'positions' are, sorry, almost, no make that totally BEYOND imbecilic in understandings.

s