(Luke 8:13) "But the ones on the rock [are those] who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Is God making the person believe temporarily to just to make them fall away?
Sort of, yes. I’m nearly an occasionalist, that is, I think God orders and controls ALL things. Anything short of this denies the sovereignty of God, which I hold to be absolute. As a text proof of “believers†falling away, how many times in the NT do we see “disciples†turn away from Jesus?
(John 6:66) What about Judas? Demas? Did not God ordain these events? I do not regard all types of “belief†to be of the saving type. There exists the sort of faith that James describes as “deadâ€. True faith will be accompanied by works, the execution of which is the very reason of our salvation
(Ephesians 2:10) That kind of faith is the saving kind. It is the “born again†kind. It comes with eternal life, which cannot be terminated (or else it would prove to be less than eternal.)
(John 6:44-47) "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
While God draws, the believing is still our part. God will not draw an unwilling believer.
How do you get the “God only draws the willing†business out of this passage? You are simply adding your own thoughts here as a sort of addendum to the sacred text. Watch that.
You know that the will of man is of little use. And I’m being generous. I’m sure you’ve seen all the verses like
Daniel 4:35 and
Psalm 139 and
Romans 9… It’s a very long list.
What stands out for me in this passage you offer is the “
everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me†part. That’s what I’m talking about, right there, Felix!
(Rom 1:20-21) For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
This is a case for a creator. This in no way means that the gospel can be understood by observing creation.
What does Grace mean to you, Felix? Do you suppose that God shed His grace evenly over all men, so that you had no greater a chance of coming to faith than any one else? Rather, grace means that God favored some over others regardless of their relative merit. If God were equally gracious to all, then grace lacks meaning. Said another way: If God treats all men the same way, then He has favor on none.
Every spiritual rebirth is nothing short of a miracle. I can assure you that I did not “Will†my way into eternal life. I was very much an atheist, a God hater, and a taunter of Christians. I had to be broken like a horse. I had to be brought low. I was put into a painful position (by God) in which I COULD NOT deny Him. In this way, He revealed Himself to me. Today, as His child, if I step out of His will, He chastens me sternly. In this way, He continues to reveal Himself to me. He is very present. No one who knows Him in this very personal way would “choose†the world over Christ.
I barely remember the old me of just 4 years ago. I don’t smoke what I used to smoke, I don’t listen to what I used to listen to, I don’t talk about what I used to talk about. God has put His Spirit in me and made me want to do HIS will. Under His power I am playing instruments I’ve never played! Under His power I have started a bible reading ministry that is feeding the sheep and is growing… It is a miracle, I tell you! (That’s where I’ve been, Danus!)
None of this is a good reflection on me. I am in no way responsible for any of this. He didn’t merely make a suggestion with which I cooperated. He PROVED Himself to me in a pretty obvious way.
If He can get me… He can get ANYONE in like fashion. Consider Nebuchadnezer! He could save everyone if He wanted to, but He has chosen only a few.
(Matthew 7:14) (Matthew 22:14)
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (John 5:21)
That’s right, whom HE will!
Amen!
-HisSheep
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