The obedience of faith

[Ernest T. Bass]

So this is your answer to Dr RC Spoul's lecture using Romans 9 to illustrate God's sovereign choice in whom he will chose?

Your saying Romans 9 is not about God choosing? You've lost me. What are you saying about Romans 9?

The overall theme of Rom 9, as I said in my last post, is that Paul knew God had cut off the Jews as His chosen and graffed in the Gentiles. Paul knew that upon telling the Jews this they would disagree with him and argue against it. So Romans 9 is where Paul raises the objections he knew the Jews would have, and Paul answers those objections.

So Romans 9 has nothing to do with Calvinistic election. Calvinists twist Romans 9 trying to make it fit their theology. Calvinists twist God's choice of Jacob over Esau into God's sovereign, unconditional choice of each twins eternal destiny when the choice had NOTHING to do with their eternal destinies. Instead it was a choice of a nation, Israel. God's choice of Jacob was really a choice of Israel for Paul references Gen 25:23 where Rebekah had two NATIONS within her, two manner of PEOPLE. Would God chose EDOM or ISRAEL? God chose Israel as the nation through which Jesus would enter the world and the choice of Jacob over Esau had to do with that NATION of Israel and not Jacob's or Esau's eternal destinies.

 

[rrowell]

I used John 15:16: "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." in the quote. You are addressing other verses to address this verse, without addressing the verse I gave, which you quoted.

Would you like to address this verse? or the other verses you used? Your pick. You can make it as long as you want. And address the lecture video if you like. No one ever does. Maybe you'll be the first.

Of course I am using other verses to address John 15:16, this is how your supposed to do it, I laid out the context which must be done.

to use the verse in the way you say you have to make this verse say something it does not, you must twist it to "fit" your Calvinistic view of predestination... He was choosing his Apostles... but Judas' election was the same as the other 11 yet he was unfaithful which proves my point.

Perpetuation of election was from "obedience" NOT predestination, your avoiding this point...