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The Only True Continualists are The Born Again: The New Birth Experience is precisely the same today as on the Day of Pentecost

Alfred Persson

Catholic Orthodox Free Will Reformed Baptist
2024 Supporter
The Same Born-Again Experience Continues today as is universally reported by Christians everywhere.

On the day of Pentecost two separate groups received the Baptism in the Spirit, numbering 120 (Ac. 1:14) and 3,000 (Ac. 2:38-41).

The First Group (Ac. 1:14) were followers of Jesus from the days of John the Baptist to His resurrection (Ac. 1:21-22). A sound from heaven like rushing wind filled the house, and tongues of fire sat upon each of their heads and they spoke in languages of Parthians, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, Libya, Cyrene, and Rome (Acts. 2:8-10).

The Holy Spirit filled (Ac. 2:4) their spirit (Rom. 8:5-16), God breathing into their souls the breath of lives (Gen. 2:7), they became "new creatures" (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15) risen in Christ (Rom. 6:3-4; Col. 2:12), born "from above" (John 3:7-8; 1 Pet. 1:3) .The "washing of regeneration and renewing" (Tit. 3:5) gave birth to their "inner man" (Eph. 3:16; Col. 3:10). They became partakers of divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4) passing from death into life (John 5:21, 24-26).

Only their soul was made alive, all of this was Spirit to spirit (Rom. 8:5-16) because our Holy God cannot abide with sin and touches no unclean thing (Rom. 7:18; 8:7-13). The flesh must wait for the resurrection yet future (1 Cor. 15:12, 51-55; Rev. 20:5).

Of these 120 unique followers of Christ only the Twelve Apostles did signs and wonders (Ac. 2:42-43).

When the Second Group received the Holy Spirit (Ac. 2:38-39) there was no sound from heaven like a rushing wind. Tongues of fire did not rest upon their heads. They did not speak foreign languages.

Confirming the 3,000 saved that day did not manifest revelatory gifts is the fact these were so uncommon they were deemed a "sign from God" of something new (Acts 10:44-47; 15:7-8). God also employed this sign to confirm salvation is only by public confession Jesus is LORD (Acts 19:1-7; 4:12). That this was a special group of Jews who received the revelatory gifts is evident by it being specially noted these were "Twelve" in number (Acts 19:7), clearly implying they were part of this exclusive group of Jews who would establish the Church (1 Cor. 12:28). "Salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22)

The "outward physical evidence" the 3,000 were filled with the Holy Spirit was their changed heart and mind towards God and His Truth, and love for His people (Acts. 2:42-47 Compare 1 Pet. 1:22-23).

That the "outward physical evidence" was the SAME for BOTH the 120 and 3,000 follows from it being a function of "the One Body of Christ", "the One Spirit who regenerates", "the One Faith all belong to", "the One Baptism common to every believer". Every believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit of God whether they "feel" Him or not.

Just as the "soul" cannot be "physically felt", neither can the soul's regeneration into a new creature be "physically felt", it happens in the dimension of the spirit senses cannot sense. That is why Scripture is silent about "physical sensations in body or brain" as though any could indicate when the Holy Spirit is working. None can. The regeneration of the human soul into a "new creature" can only be spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14) and logically inferred from many lines of evidence in the Holy Scriptures. Unless God specially grace the believer nothing will be "felt" as "the Spirit communicates to the human soul His divine nature animating the soul with eternal life. It is born again, from above. What formerly was like a ghost is now a "new creature in Christ." The believer spiritually discerns the changed perceptions, now they "KNOW" God is their Father! Truth formerly obscure is now wonderfully illuminated. The beauty and necessity of Christ, His incarnation and ransom sacrifice are understood beyond natural understanding.

Therefore, on the Day of Pentecost we expect to see THE SAME EVIDENCE of the New Birth in both the 120 who received special empowerment and the 3,000 saved who did not

Both the 120 and 3000 show "holy fear" at the signs done by the Twelve Apostles, and BOTH manifest the Holy Spirit is in them by their devotion to God's Truth and His people:

43 Then fear came upon EVERY soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. (Acts 2:43-47 NKJ)


The "outward physical evidence" they were baptized in the Spirit was in their changed perception, their love for God, His Truth, and His children. Being baptized in the Spirit, the "washing of regeneration" is the SAME for every born from above believer from the Day of Pentecost until today:

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph. 4:4-6 NKJ)


The one Spirit Personally indwells every member of the body of Christ, BUT to "each one" was given "the grace" (ἡ χάρις) to accomplish the work God appointed they do (Eph. 2:10):

But unto each one of us was the grace (ἡ χάρις) given according to the measure of the gift of Christ. (Eph. 4:7 ASV)

The church receives gifts (Eph. 4:10-13) according to God's will (Eph. 4:7; 1 Cor. 12:11), but the One Spirit Personally indwells every member of the church equally so all are "the children of God".

The 120 unique followers of Christ who received special grace to establish Christianity while the New Testament was still being written, were precisely like the 3000 born from above on that day. Never is it said they were superior in any way, to the 3,000 saved that day. Therefore, every born-again believer in Christ is just as much a child of God, as the apostles and prophets who founded the Church.

Today's "born again experience" is the exactly the same believers experienced on the Day of Pentecost, the time of the maximum manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit. All perceive they are changed, loving God, His Truth and His People like never before.

I am a "Cessationist" only concerning the special gifts the Twelve Apostles manifested, or the revelatory gifts of "togues, prophecy, and Knowledge" (1 Cor. 13:8). When it pertains to the Born Again Experience, I am a "Continualist".

Hope that explanation helps.

 
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"The New Birth Experience is precisely the same today as on the Day of Pentecost"​

There is simply no way to demonstrate your claim. It is an argument from silence. And non-apostolic conversions in the book of Acts weren't even all "precisely the same," so there's no single uniform conversion experience that can be compared to today. It also requires you to assume that all conversions today are "precisely the same," and the only way to do that is you have to reject a priori every conversion account today that doesn't fit your theory.

More curious to me is the story behind your question. I've noticed that you seem very bent on 'proving' cessationism 'at all costs,' so I'm curious what motivation and/or personal experience is driving that.
 

"The New Birth Experience is precisely the same today as on the Day of Pentecost"​

There is simply no way to demonstrate your claim. It is an argument from silence. And non-apostolic conversions in the book of Acts weren't even all "precisely the same," so there's no single uniform conversion experience that can be compared to today. It also requires you to assume that all conversions today are "precisely the same," and the only way to do that is you have to reject a priori every conversion account today that doesn't fit your theory.

More curious to me is the story behind your question. I've noticed that you seem very bent on 'proving' cessationism 'at all costs,' so I'm curious what motivation and/or personal experience is driving that.
This is my motivation, there are no "second class believers" in the one body of Christ. No born again believer (like the 3,000 saved on the Day of Pentecost who did not work signs and wonders), should feel like they are :

4 For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant--
5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever.
6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant--
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." (Isa. 56:4-7 NIV)
 

"The New Birth Experience is precisely the same today as on the Day of Pentecost"​

There is simply no way to demonstrate your claim. It is an argument from silence. And non-apostolic conversions in the book of Acts weren't even all "precisely the same," so there's no single uniform conversion experience that can be compared to today. It also requires you to assume that all conversions today are "precisely the same," and the only way to do that is you have to reject a priori every conversion account today that doesn't fit your theory.

More curious to me is the story behind your question. I've noticed that you seem very bent on 'proving' cessationism 'at all costs,' so I'm curious what motivation and/or personal experience is driving that.
I should expand on that. No born again believer, who didn't receive spectacular gifts of the Spirit when they believed, is one iota less than an apostle of God manifesting every gift.

That logic is what underlies Paul's discussion here. He begins pointing out we all receive the SAME Holy Spirit, that "there should be no division in the body"....we are all "the body of Christ, and each one a part of it" EQUALLY:

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.
5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord.
6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body-- whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free-- and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.
16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason stop being part of the body.
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
19 If they were all one part, where would the body be?
20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"
22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,
24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it,
25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. (1 Cor. 12:4-27 NIV)

And if I were a prophet of God, this is the Word of the LORD I would say to those who imply otherwise:

22 "Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life.
23 "Therefore you shall no longer envision futility nor practice divination; for I will deliver My people out of your hand, and you shall know that I am the LORD."'"
(Ezek. 13:22-23 NKJ)
 
"This is my motivation, there are no "second class believers" in the one body of Christ. No born again believer (like the 3,000 saved on the Day of Pentecost who did not work signs and wonders), should feel like they are"

Amen. But that's still true even though not everyone has had the same conversion experience then or today. It's like the person who has the awesome (non-miraculous) testimony vs the "ordinary." Or even the miraculous. I have friends who have awesome non miraculous testimonies. I also have friends who had miraculous conversions. I do not have a miraculous or even "awesome" testimony. Mine was uneventful, unassuming, and "boring," but to me, no less meaningful or powerful or life-changing. But you are right: we are still all one in Christ regardless. There are no second class citizens, and the one who prides him or herself on such an experience is guilty of the sin by the same name, and exhibits spiritual immaturity.
 
"This is my motivation, there are no "second class believers" in the one body of Christ. No born again believer (like the 3,000 saved on the Day of Pentecost who did not work signs and wonders), should feel like they are"

Amen. But that's still true even though not everyone has had the same conversion experience then or today. It's like the person who has the awesome (non-miraculous) testimony vs the "ordinary." Or even the miraculous. I have friends who have awesome non miraculous testimonies. I also have friends who had miraculous conversions. I do not have a miraculous or even "awesome" testimony. Mine was uneventful, unassuming, and "boring," but to me, no less meaningful or powerful or life-changing. But you are right: we are still all one in Christ regardless. There are no second class citizens, and the one who prides him or herself on such an experience is guilty of the sin by the same name, and exhibits spiritual immaturity.
Incorrect. Everyone born again has the same experience, but not all receive the same grace:

3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. (Eph. 4:3-7 NKJ)

For example, the Holy Spirit rests upon me 24/7 like warm oil on the head and face of my inner man. But that is God's special grace for the work He has called me to do, not my born-again experience.

So why did God grace "I experientially know" Scripture is speaking of actual events when it reveals the new birth?

There is only one body, one Spirit, one calling..., ONE BAPTISM in the Spirit, and that is when a person's soul is quickened, made alive in Christ = born again.

I believe God wanted me to testify, without any doubt "scripture is true", that the regeneration by the Holy Spirit is an event that is real in everyone who calls upon the name of the LORD. It is the SAME for EVERY born again believer whether they "felt something supernatural" or not.

Everyone born from above perceives God is their ABBA, and love for Him, His Truth the bible and His people has suddenly and exponentially increased. One perceives they have been born again, born from above. Its perception, not a physical feeling.


Every believer partakes of the divine nature (2Pet. 1:4) at regeneration, when the weak human spirit becomes "a new creature" "living man" born from above in Christ. Because that change occurs "Spirit to spirit" (Rom. 8:16), not in the flesh, the senses of the flesh are unaware of it. Just as we cannot "feel the soul existing in us", we cannot feel what is happening in our spirit apart from our flesh. So nothing is felt physically. If anyone believes a physical experience occurred when they were regenerated, they are putting "the cart before the horse". Their changed heart and mind may have caused the physical organ of the brain to produce the electro-chemicals creating the physical experience, but there is no real connection between the Holy Spirit and that physical sensation (Rom. 7:18). That explains why scripture NEVER identifies a physical experience as being the work of the Holy Spirit. Our physical regeneration must wait for the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:35-56).


 
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Incorrect. Everyone born again has the same experience, but not all receive the same grace:

3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. (Eph. 4:3-7 NKJ)

For example, the Holy Spirit rests upon me 24/7 like warm oil on the head and face of my inner man. But that is God's special grace for the work He has called me to do, not my born-again experience.

So why did God grace "I experientially know" Scripture is speaking of actual events when it reveals the new birth?

There is only one body, one Spirit, one calling..., ONE BAPTISM in the Spirit, and that is when a person's soul is quickened, made alive in Christ = born again.

I believe God wanted me to testify, without any doubt "scripture is true", that the regeneration by the Holy Spirit is an event that is real in everyone who calls upon the name of the LORD. It is the SAME for EVERY born again believer whether they "felt something supernatural" or not.

Everyone born from above perceives God is their ABBA, and love for Him, His Truth the bible and His people has suddenly and exponentially increased. One perceives they have been born again, born from above. Its perception, not a physical feeling.


Every believer partakes of the divine nature (2Pet. 1:4) at regeneration, when the weak human spirit becomes "a new creature" "living man" born from above in Christ. Because that change occurs "Spirit to spirit" (Rom. 8:16), not in the flesh, the senses of the flesh are unaware of it. Just as we cannot "feel the soul existing in us", we cannot feel what is happening in our spirit apart from our flesh. So nothing is felt physically. If anyone believes a physical experience occurred when they were regenerated, they are putting "the cart before the horse". Their changed heart and mind may have caused the physical organ of the brain to produce the electro-chemicals creating the physical experience, but there is no real connection between the Holy Spirit and that physical sensation (Rom. 7:18). That explains why scripture NEVER identifies a physical experience as being the work of the Holy Spirit. Our physical regeneration must wait for the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:35-56).


"Incorrect. Everyone born again has the same experience, but not all receive the same grace"
"It is the SAME for EVERY born again believer whether they "felt something supernatural" or not."

If one person has a miraculous experience at the time of conversion while another does not, then by your own words that is indeed a different experience. I think what you're trying to say is that at conversion one is saved whether they experience something miraculous or not, and I already told you I agree.
 
"It is the SAME for EVERY born again believer whether they "felt something supernatural" or not."

If one person has a miraculous experience at the time of conversion while another does not, then by your own words that is indeed a different experience. I think what you're trying to say is that at conversion one is saved whether they experience something miraculous or not, and I already told you I agree.
Excellent, I missed that.

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, (Eph. 2:13-19 NKJ)

1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. (Eph. 4:1-7 NKJ)

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:4-13 NKJ)

No second-class citizens in the One Faith of Jesus.
 
Yes, I think we're agreed that you don't have to have a specific experience or feeling to "prove" you're saved. But it's also true that people have different conversion experiences, some supernatural, some not. Some people have received supernatural confirmation, but I agree that supernatural experiences are not required.

It is not the outward, but the inward change of heart
 
Yes, I think we're agreed that you don't have to have a specific experience or feeling to "prove" you're saved. But it's also true that people have different conversion experiences, some supernatural, some not. Some people have received supernatural confirmation, but I agree that supernatural experiences are not required.

It is not the outward, but the inward change of heart
Isn't it a supernatural experience to be born again ? Even if the person does not realize it ?
 
Isn't it a supernatural experience to be born again ? Even if the person does not realize it ?
Absolutely! But there have also been external supernatural experiences that have accompanied that inner supernatural transformation. Not everyone has experienced such (external) miraculous things, of course, but not everyone has to. Any such external experience is not a required 'proof' of salvation, nor does it make that one better than another who only experiences a quiet inner transformation. I fall in the latter camp. But I have friends who fall in the former. They don't think of me as any less of a Christian, nor do I think of them as better. We are all sinners saved by grace.
 
Absolutely!
Great we agree .
But there have also been external supernatural experiences that have accompanied that inner supernatural transformation.
Me . I knew (much to my surprise) that I had the gift of tongues before I left the church altar where I was born again .
Not everyone has experienced such (external) miraculous things, of course, but not everyone has to. Any such external experience is not a required 'proof' of salvation, nor does it make that one better than another who only experiences a quiet inner transformation.
I wonder if the reason I received the Gift of tongues was because I am a weaker vessel and God knew I would need the Gift .
We are all sinners saved by grace.
Yes ! Amen !
 
I doubt the 'weaker vessel' thing. You're no weaker than the rest of us. I think you received it by the grace of God because it's a free gift that the Holy Spirit sovereignly distributes according to His will. You received it because God wanted you to! 😀
 
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