Is the Born Again Experience the same today, as on the Day of Pentecost?

[JLB]

I see your version of the KJV of the bible changed the word "perfect" to the word "complete".
Too bad, as it has robbed you of its intended "profit".

That's what the word perfect means; complete.

Lacking nothing. Fit for the Master's use.








JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's what the word perfect means; complete.

Lacking nothing. Fit for the Master's use.

As you noted, it also can be translated as "perfect".
Thanks.

 

[Alfred Persson]

As you noted, it also can be translated as "perfect".
Thanks.

Grasping for straws and then Wham! Truth from another quarter slaps it down.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Grasping for straws and then Wham! Truth from another quarter slaps it down.

No problem here.
I am used to those fighting against obedience to God.
Jesus commanded perfection in Matt 5:48, and in John 8:32-34 said the truth can free us from committing sin.
Commanded and enabled !
That sound like perfection to me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No problem here.
I am used to those fighting against obedience to God.
Jesus commanded perfection in Matt 5:48, and in John 8:32-34 said the truth can free us from committing sin.
Commanded and enabled !
That sound like perfection to me.

 

[JLB]

No problem here.
I am used to those fighting against obedience to God.
Jesus commanded perfection in Matt 5:48, and in John 8:32-34 said the truth can free us from committing sin.
Commanded and enabled !
That sound like perfection to me.

Yes and this same Jesus instructed us what to do if a brother sins against us.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17


Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. Matthew 18:21-22


Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32



So which one of these passages is a New Testament teaching of Jesus Christ and which one of these is the law of Moses?




JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nothing is impossible for God, in Whom I walk.
You could too.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes and this same Jesus instructed us what to do if a brother sins against us.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. Matthew 18:21-22
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32
So which one of these passages is a New Testament teaching of Jesus Christ and which one of these is the law of Moses?

They both cover both testimonies.
Spoken before the shedding of Jesus' blood of the new covenant, but also applicable afterwards.

 

[hawkman]

How wonderful. That wasn't my experience when I followed instructions "to speak in tongues".

I was told to devoutly pray, relax mind and body and yield, letting go of control as I vocalized sounds and syllables and with faith began speaking in tongues...

I was alone in my fully lit hotel room, when suddenly Satan appeared circling me like a lion does it prey. I could feel the power of the Holy Spirit keeping him a few feet away. With all his power he wanted to hurt me.

Satan can manifest any appearance he chooses. I watched as he circled, cylindrical in shape, slightly rounded on top but on the bottom a band of energy that folded in on itself as he "walked", about 18 inches tall, 1 foot in diameter. A mass of dark energy with streaks of white.

We know that whosoever is born of God...that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 Jn. 5:18 KJV)

I could sense his anger and hatred. He left. Never again revealing himself that way. So I can group this "tongues experience" with the "dreams visions and voices" that were "not of God."

I never tried that foolishness again. That was the start of my reevaluating the Pentecostal gospel. Other events at the church, like "glow meetings" and "carnal prophecies" bothered me, but this "broke the camel's back."

Pentecostals can keep their dreams visions voices and tongues, I have Scripture which makes me complete, fully equipped for every good work:

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 NKJ)

You should have received the same instructions I got . Which is none .

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Pentecost was a partial fulfillment. The end time wonders in heaven and and darkened Sun didn't happen while Peter was speaking.

Of course it was only partial. There're seven feasts of the Lord, Jesus fulfilled the first three (Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruit) by his death, burial and resurrection, the church fulfilled the fourth (Pentecost) on that Pentecost where they were baptized with the Holy Spirit; the last three (Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacle) will be fulfilled at his second coming, then there may be an eighth (Chanukkah), which symbolizes the rededication of the temple and a new beginning. That Pentecost was the "early rain", there will be a "latter rain" when God pours out His Spirit, then this prophecy will be completely fulfilled.

 

[JLB]

They both cover both testimonies.
Spoken before the shedding of Jesus' blood of the new covenant, but also applicable afterwards.

Sorry but you have been busted.

According to you, Jesus was teaching old covenant law before the cross.

Your claim is that the following passage from Matthew 18 about the forgiveness of sin is old testament and does not apply to the Church today.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

So everything Jesus taught before the cross, according to you, is not applicable to the Church.

If John 8:31 is applicable to the Church the Matthew 18:15-17 is applicable to the Church.


Hopefully you see just how ridiculous your claim and your "sinless perfection" doctrine is.


Everything Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, is exactly what is taught by His Apostles throughout the New Testament.

Paul, John, James, Peter all taught the doctrine of Jesus Christ.




JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry but you have been busted.
According to you, Jesus was teaching old covenant law before the cross.

There was no other Law to teach from.

Your claim is that the following passage from Matthew 18 about the forgiveness of sin is old testament and does not apply to the Church today.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

Is that what I said ?
No.
I said..."They both cover both testimonies.
Spoken before the shedding of Jesus' blood of the new covenant, but also applicable afterwards."

So everything Jesus taught before the cross, according to you, is not applicable to the Church.

I don't know where you are getting that idea from.
He said to Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength: and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
That is applicable today, just as it was in the donut-hole, or, OC.

If John 8:31 is applicable to the Church the Matthew 18:15-17 is applicable to the Church.

Sure, if we are sinned against, by anyone, we are to forgive them.
Stephen carried out that command perfectly in Acts 7.

Hopefully you see just how ridiculous your claim and your "sinless perfection" doctrine is.

I don't feel that obeying God is ridiculous.
Why do you ?

Everything Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, is exactly what is taught by His Apostles throughout the New Testament.
Paul, John, James, Peter all taught the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

I can't imagine that the apostles were still commanding the new church to do as the scribes and Pharisees were teaching.
Matt 23:3..."All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

 

[JLB]

There was no other Law to teach from.

Is that what I said ?
No.
I said..."They both cover both testimonies.
Spoken before the shedding of Jesus' blood of the new covenant, but also applicable afterwards."

I don't know where you are getting that idea from.
He said to Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength: and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
That is applicable today, just as it was in the donut-hole, or, OC.

Sure, if we are sinned against, by anyone, we are to forgive them.
Stephen carried out that command perfectly in Acts 7.

I don't feel that obeying God is ridiculous.
Why do you ?

I can't imagine that the apostles were still commanding the new church to do as the scribes and Pharisees were teaching.
Matt 23:3..."All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Your claim that what Jesus taught before the cross was old testament law, is ridiculous.


Example -

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17


Is this Old Testament law or New Testament doctrine?


Last I looked, Matthew was part of the New Testament.




JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

There was no other Law to teach from.

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.-(Matt. 5:17-18 NKJ)

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. (Dan. 9:24 NKJ)

The seventy weeks was ending as Christ spoke, He brought in the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31) which implies the Old Covenant has been fulfilled. The Old Covenant centered on sacrifices for sin to make atonement, but the forgiveness ended when another sin arose. The New Covenant brought in everlasting righteousness, thus fulfilling the Law's goal of reconciliation of God and man.

If you study the context, you will understand Christ showed the true spirit of the law behind the letter, thus strengthening it pruning away the abuse of the human traditions overlaid upon it by the scribes and Pharisees:

19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:19-20 NKJ)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old,`You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,`Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says,`You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 "leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
25 "Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
26 "Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old,`You shall not commit adultery.'
28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
31 "Furthermore it has been said,`Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old,`You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
34 "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35 "nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your`Yes' be`Yes,' and your`No,'`No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.- (Matt. 5:21-37 NKJ)

This "exposition" of the law, its intent and what its symbols mean, was performed throughout Christ's ministry, and continued with the apostles. Everlasting righteousness was brought in by Christ who appeared at the end of the ages to offer once a sacrifice for all sin done since the foundation of the world:

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:19-28 NKJ)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Your claim that what Jesus taught before the cross was old testament law, is ridiculous.


Example -

• Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17


Is this Old Testament law or New Testament doctrine?


Last I looked, Matthew was part of the New Testament.

There was no New Testament until Jesus shed the blood of the testament.
"After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (1 Cor 11:25)

 

[Hopeful 2]

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.-(Matt. 5:17-18 NKJ)

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. (Dan. 9:24 NKJ)

The seventy weeks was ending as Christ spoke, He brought in the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31) which implies the Old Covenant has been fulfilled. The Old Covenant centered on sacrifices for sin to make atonement, but the forgiveness ended when another sin arose. The New Covenant brought in everlasting righteousness, thus fulfilling the Law's goal of reconciliation of God and man.

If you study the context, you will understand Christ showed the true spirit of the law behind the letter, thus strengthening it pruning away the abuse of the human traditions overlaid upon it by the scribes and Pharisees:

19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:19-20 NKJ)
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old,`You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
22 "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,`Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says,`You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24 "leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
25 "Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
26 "Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old,`You shall not commit adultery.'
28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
31 "Furthermore it has been said,`Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old,`You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
34 "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35 "nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your`Yes' be`Yes,' and your`No,'`No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.- (Matt. 5:21-37 NKJ)

This "exposition" of the law, its intent and what its symbols mean, was performed throughout Christ's ministry, and continued with the apostles. Everlasting righteousness was brought in by Christ who appeared at the end of the ages to offer once a sacrifice for all sin done since the foundation of the world:

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:19-28 NKJ)

There is no testament until the testator dies.
"For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." (Heb 9:16-17)

 

[JLB]

There was no New Testament until Jesus shed the blood of the testament.
"After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (1 Cor 11:25)

As we see, you are contradicting yourself again and again.

Don't quote anymore New Testament teachings from Jesus before the cross if you believe that.

Otherwise obey His teachings.

It's one or the other.

Do you believe this instruction of Jesus Christ is relevant for the Church today?

If not, why?

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17


Do you believe this instruction of Jesus Christ is relevant for the Church today?

If so, then why?

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Here is the way God views the cross -

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8


Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. Those in the Old Testament were looking forward to the cross, by faith, just as we today look back... by faith.




JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

There is no testament until the testator dies.
"For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." (Heb 9:16-17)

Jesus commanded we do things that are not taught in Mosaic Law. This is consistent with Moses' prophecy commanding all are to heed the "new lawgiver":

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, (Deut. 18:15 NKJ)

22 "For Moses truly said to the fathers,`The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
23 `And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.'
24 "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. (Acts 3:22-24 NKJ)

ChatGPT provided some examples of "New Laws" Jesus commanded, that Moses did not:

• Love Your Enemies:
  • Matthew 5:44: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
• The Golden Rule:
  • Matthew 7:12: "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
• Forgiveness:
  • Matthew 6:14-15: "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
  • Matthew 18:21-22: "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?' Jesus answered, 'I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.'"
• Turning the Other Cheek:
  • Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."
• Servant Leadership:
  • Matthew 20:26-28: "Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
• The Great Commission:
  • Matthew 28:19-20: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
• New Commandment of Love:
  • John 13:34-35: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
• Abiding in Jesus:
  • John 15:4-5: "Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."
• The Beatitudes:
  • Matthew 5:3-12: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus lists the Beatitudes, which are blessings associated with certain attitudes and behaviors, such as being poor in spirit, meek, merciful, pure in heart, and peacemakers.
• Renouncing Materialism and Worry:
  • Matthew 6:19-21: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
  • Matthew 6:25-34: Jesus teaches not to worry about life, what to eat or drink, or about the body, what to wear. Instead, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
• Non-Judgmental Attitude:
  • Matthew 7:1-2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
• These teachings emphasize love, forgiveness, humility, service, and faith, marking a significant departure from the Old Covenant's focus on the law and rituals. They highlight the transformative and relational nature of the New Covenant established by Jesus.
  

 

[Hopeful 2]

As we see, you are contradicting yourself again and again.
Don't quote anymore New Testament teachings from Jesus before the cross if you believe that.
Otherwise obey His teachings.
It's one or the other.

What do you think is the demarcation point between old and new testament ?
I say it is the shedding of the blood of Christ.

Do you believe this instruction of Jesus Christ is relevant for the Church today?

Some of them, but not the command to obey the scribes nd Pharisees.

If not, why?

The scribes and Pharisees lost their authority to lead when Jesus shed the blood of a new testimony.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17
Do you believe this instruction of Jesus Christ is relevant for the Church today?

Yes.

If so, then why?

If we don't forgive, we won't be forgiven.
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt 6:14-15)

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

That prophesy was answered, to the glory of God !

Here is the way God views the cross -
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8

The "him" in that verse is the beast, so I am not following your train of thought.

Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. Those in the Old Testament were looking forward to the cross, by faith, just as we today look back... by faith.

OK ???

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus commanded we do things that are not taught in Mosaic Law. This is consistent with Moses' prophecy commanding all are to heed the "new lawgiver":

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, (Deut. 18:15 NKJ)

22 "For Moses truly said to the fathers,`The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
23 `And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.'
24 "Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. (Acts 3:22-24 NKJ)

ChatGPT provided some examples of "New Laws" Jesus commanded, that Moses did not:

• Love Your Enemies:
  • Matthew 5:44: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
• The Golden Rule:
  • Matthew 7:12: "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
• Forgiveness:
  • Matthew 6:14-15: "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
  • Matthew 18:21-22: "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?' Jesus answered, 'I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.'"
• Turning the Other Cheek:
  • Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."
• Servant Leadership:
  • Matthew 20:26-28: "Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
• The Great Commission:
  • Matthew 28:19-20: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
• New Commandment of Love:
  • John 13:34-35: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
• Abiding in Jesus:
  • John 15:4-5: "Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."
• The Beatitudes:
  • Matthew 5:3-12: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus lists the Beatitudes, which are blessings associated with certain attitudes and behaviors, such as being poor in spirit, meek, merciful, pure in heart, and peacemakers.
• Renouncing Materialism and Worry:
  • Matthew 6:19-21: "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
  • Matthew 6:25-34: Jesus teaches not to worry about life, what to eat or drink, or about the body, what to wear. Instead, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
• Non-Judgmental Attitude:
  • Matthew 7:1-2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
• These teachings emphasize love, forgiveness, humility, service, and faith, marking a significant departure from the Old Covenant's focus on the law and rituals. They highlight the transformative and relational nature of the New Covenant established by Jesus.

OK, and thanks for the study...or should I have said thanks for letting a robot do the study ?
Here is another command from the NT..."Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)
And another..."He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." (1 John 2:6)