The Perverted Gospel!

[mailmandan]

Another irrelevant verse for those who believe in perpetual unconditional justification!

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[mailmandan]

With your works based gospel you cannot accurately define the biblical gospel.
You clearly miss it.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

A works based gospel is a perverted gospel. (Romans 11:6; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Galatians 1:6-9)

 

[mailmandan]

ok no offense!

jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

how does being born naturally have anything to do with the kingdom?

how do we enter the kingdom?

thks

In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). In that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would point out that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14 and connects it with everlasting life and also in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

Now if "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet there are still others who point out that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

 

[onlysaved]

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

Sin was dealt with once and for all by Jesus on the cross. For those who believe sin is no longer THE issue and our sanctification is the process by which we rid our lives of sin and become more like Jesus.

 

[donadams]

Christians are priests.

We are part of a royal priesthood.

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 1 Peter 2:9


We don’t “go to priests” to have a priest forgive our sins.

We are priests and can confess our sins and be cleansed.

We can confess our sins one to another because we are priests.

And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. James 5:15-16

we are priests and kings yes but not ministerial priests or ruling kings

the priesthood of Christ is ministerial and have been ordained and endowed with power to forgive sins Jn 20:21-23

thks

 

[donadams]

Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Hebrews 13:7

KJV
Hebrews 13:7​

7 Remember them which have the rule over you,

rule and obey

God always establishes peace and order by OBEDIENCE to the fathers

 

[donadams]

Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Hebrews 13:7

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[donadams]

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

yes every mortal sin number and king that we can remember and as soon as possible to those in authority
Jn 20:21-23

 

[donadams]

In regard to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). In that case, Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom of God two births are necessary. The first is a physical, "flesh" birth (accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

There are also those who would point out that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14 and connects it with everlasting life and also in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

Now if "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet there are still others who point out that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

and Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river (water) and baptized

in the natural you did not give birth to yourself
in the supernatural order you cannot give birth to yourself
Jn 3:5 cannot enter on your own, must be administered unto you 2 pet 1:11

thks

 

[JLB]

the priesthood of Christ is ministerial and have been ordained and endowed with power to forgive sins Jn 20:21-23

So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” John 20-21-23


This is for followers of Christ.


Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. James 5:16


Confess your trespasses to Catholic priests one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. donadams 5:16


Which one of these is true and which one is false?

 

[donadams]

So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” John 20-21-23


This is for followers of Christ.


Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. James 5:16


Confess your trespasses to Catholic priests one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. donadams 5:16


Which one of these is true and which one is false?

the one and other he is speaking of is the priests

we must confess to those Christ appointed

 

[donadams]

Goodbye false teacher.

"hope you enjoy picking luther's cotton on the reformation plantation"!

 

[onlysaved]

"hope you enjoy picking luther's cotton on the reformation plantation"!

i think Luther was wrong about some stuff too. However it's amazing what happens when literacy and the desire to seek God, aided by the Holy Spirit rips the power away from long standing religious tyranny.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

The Perverted Gospel!

(Fundamentalist Tradition)

“Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior, there is nothing more you need to do”!

for salvation, that is correct.

thats WHY jesus came to the cross.

for sanctification, its not true. if we want to become like Christ we must do quite a bit. daily in our lives

I am saved, I have received Christ, His atoning blood washed all my sins clean, I will not do anything more!

I do not know a single person in my 40 years who even thought this

yet I see people accuse people of this all the time

“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matt 26:41

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

again, Only a licentious person would say this, James and Jude and Peter said they are not saved.

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Lk 9:23

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Thy will be done, behold I come to do Thy will: Matt 21:28-31

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 19:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
Phil 1:29

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Pride, presumption, & arrogance? Yes

Humility, meekness, & obedience?
N E V E R!

sounds like a modern day pharisee here

Pump your chest much of how great you are and how thankful you are not like the sinner

I would recommend you become like the tax collector. and repent

 

[onlysaved]

The most important thing to repent of is the pride associated with thinking that salvation is a work of man. That we have anything to do with it. That there is anything you can do to cause it or affect it in any way.
You are the recipient of it and that's all.

 

[donadams]

i think Luther was wrong about some stuff too. However it's amazing what happens when literacy and the desire to seek God, aided by the Holy Spirit rips the power away from long standing religious tyranny.

and causes spiritual anarchy? yes

 

[donadams]

for salvation, that is correct.

thats WHY jesus came to the cross.

for sanctification, its not true. if we want to become like Christ we must do quite a bit. daily in our lives

I do not know a single person in my 40 years who even thought this

yet I see people accuse people of this all the time

again, Only a licentious person would say this, James and Jude and Peter said they are not saved.


sounds like a modern day pharisee here

Pump your chest much of how great you are and how thankful you are not like the sinner

I would recommend you become like the tax collector. and repent

does this accepting Christ make is born again child of God?

 

[donadams]

for salvation, that is correct.

thats WHY jesus came to the cross.

for sanctification, its not true. if we want to become like Christ we must do quite a bit. daily in our lives

I do not know a single person in my 40 years who even thought this

yet I see people accuse people of this all the time

again, Only a licentious person would say this, James and Jude and Peter said they are not saved.


sounds like a modern day pharisee here

Pump your chest much of how great you are and how thankful you are not like the sinner

I would recommend you become like the tax collector. and repent

who is saved in this life?

 

[Fish153]

who is saved in this life?

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God". (1 John 5:13)

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he SAVED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life". (TITUS 3:4-7)

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS passed from death unto life". (John 5:24)

"Beloved, NOW are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we SHALL be: but we know that, when he SHALL appear, we SHALL be like him; for we SHALL see him as he is". (1 John 3:2)

These, and many other scriptures teach us that we HAVE eternal life and ARE SAVED if we truly accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and are Born Again. We can KNOW we HAVE eternal life, and that we ARE sons of God right now. Eternal life starts in this life--you are SAVED (See Titus 3:4-7 above)--past tense--in this life.

Contrary to the first post in this thread which seems to say that Christians think they are SAVED and do nothing more. That is SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH. Any truly born-again person in no way believes they are "saved" and can live any way they want to live, and don't need to do "anything" more. True---we are not saved by works---but if you are a new creation in Christ your desire is to flee from sin and grow in Christ. Only a phony Christian would believe that they can say a prayer and keep living the way they used to. That's hogwash---and so many who believe in "works salvation" use that line of thought. Or if someone believes in Eternal Security they will say "oh, you believe you are saved forever and can therefore sin up a storm with no consequences".

That is SO UNTRUE. A truly born-again Christian desires not to sin. Only the false Christian believes they can go on living the way they used to and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. A truly born-again believer will be led by the Spirit to live godly lives:

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.." (Titus 2: 11,12)

Only a false brother would think he can pray a prayer and live like hell. Yet many teach that if you believe you are "saved" and "have eternal life" that you will live in an ungodly manner. On the contrary---because you are "saved" you are filled with gratefulness to God for His grace, and yearn to live in a way that pleases Him.

 

[donadams]

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God". (1 John 5:13)

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he SAVED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life". (TITUS 3:4-7)

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS passed from death unto life". (John 5:24)

"Beloved, NOW are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we SHALL be: but we know that, when he SHALL appear, we SHALL be like him; for we SHALL see him as he is". (1 John 3:2)

These, and many other scriptures teach us that we HAVE eternal life and ARE SAVED if we truly accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and are Born Again. We can KNOW we HAVE eternal life, and that we ARE sons of God right now. Eternal life starts in this life--you are SAVED (See Titus 3:4-7 above)--past tense--in this life.

Contrary to the first post in this thread which seems to say that Christians think they are SAVED and do nothing more. That is SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH. Any truly born-again person in no way believes they are "saved" and can live any way they want to live, and don't need to do "anything" more. True---we are not saved by works---but if you are a new creation in Christ your desire is to flee from sin and grow in Christ. Only a phony Christian would believe that they can say a prayer and keep living the way they used to. That's hogwash---and so many who believe in "works salvation" use that line of thought. Or if someone believes in Eternal Security they will say "oh, you believe you are saved forever and can therefore sin up a storm with no consequences".

That is SO UNTRUE. A truly born-again Christian desires not to sin. Only the false Christian believes they can go on living the way they used to and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. A truly born-again believer will be led by the Spirit to live godly lives:

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.." (Titus 2: 11,12)

Only a false brother would think he can pray a prayer and live like hell. Yet many teach that if you believe you are "saved" and "have eternal life" that you will live in an ungodly manner. On the contrary---because you are "saved" you are filled with gratefulness to God for His grace, and yearn to live in a way that pleases Him.

eternal life does not mean eternal salvation

Jn 10:10 life (grace)
Jn 14:6 life (grace)
eph 2:1 & 5 brought to life of grace
grace is God's life in us! Jn 1:16-17

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

fullness of God's life (grace)

Living members of Christ in His new covenant of grace by faith and baptism, then we must abide in Christ by prayer, fasting, alms, mass & sacraments, and the practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ, (matt 11:29) (1 cor 13:13) abiding in Christ (Jn 15:5) keeping ourselves in the love of God, (Jude 1:21) and enduring to the end (Matt 10:22)

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

repent acts 2:38
baptism mk 16:16
faith hope and charity 1 cor 13:13
deut 6:5
deny thyself carry cross mt 16:24 gal 5:24
suffer with Christ rom 8:17 2 tim 2:12 phil 1:29 2 thes 1:5 heb 12:4
abide in Christ Jn 15:1-4
practice the virtues of Christ mt 11:29 heb 10:36 rev 2:19
prayer mt 7:7 mt 26:41
beatitudes matt 5
alms and fasting matt 6
endure to the end mk 13:13
mt 10:22 mt 24:13

thks