The Poor, The Rich

[GodsGrace]

Our enemies are not flesh and blood, but are unseen ruling forces. At least that's my initial though when considering the idea of conspiracy.

As for the rich and the poor. I wish there was more intagration between the two. Where the rich and the poor knew each other, and did not hate or distance themselves from the other. That said though this kind of wish is a bit of a copout coming from me. I don't even know my neighbors that much. Not as outgoing in that area ad I'd lie to be, plus a schedule that is opposite as most people's regular work week, keep socializing and meeting people down quite a bit.

Still my wish is still that the rich see the poor and not just distance themselves from them, and the poorer walk alongside the richer instead of hating them for having do much when everyone else seems to have so much less, or even struggle to get by.

Knowing one another and being near one another would hopefully put a face to an issue, and help both the rich want to help the poor, and the poor not to hate the rich.

You could come and live here!
It's mixed...VERY few places where it isn't.

 

[GodsGrace]

i dunno. i could see knowing poor people make working class and middle class people more sympathetic, but...rich people? nah. one bad thing about my existence before Jesus saved me (ongoing process, of course) is that I was labeled a "poser," and therefore picked on by the rich kids...mostly behind my back.

truth? i was just a bright, precocious dorky teenager who liked the thrift store. but....when one rubs high(er) status people the wrong way, bad things can happen....

-sigh-

 

[GodsGrace]

One cannot expect this from those who are unsaved and are essentially self-centered. There is more than enough wealth in the world to eradicate poverty and disease, but we will never see this until the Second Coming of Christ.

There are countries in Africa where the very govt of the people does not let food go through to the hungry.

What humans do to humans is appalling.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

One cannot expect this from those who are unsaved and are essentially self-centered. There is more than enough wealth in the world to eradicate poverty and disease, but we will never see this until the Second Coming of Christ.

Nathan, I've seen some good from nonchristians. This isn't a issue outside of Christianity. I've also seen both Christian and nonchristian show all the signs of our broken natures.

What seems to be one of the factors for helping others is both exposure to them, and relating to their situations.

That said, I could be wrong in my thoughts. Christ_empowered pointed out the flaw of just exposure means more rude and divisions among in tighter populations.

 

[Michael74]

The USA would benefit from an honest dollar. Bankers are using inflation to slowly impoverish the majority. The Gini coefficient has gone to the moon since QE and such were implemented.

 

[Nathan12]

Nathan, I've seen some good from nonchristians.

I would agree with you. However, I was speaking about the world at large. There are multiple billions of narco-dollars in Mexico and Central America. And yet their people are pouring into the USA illegally -- a declaration of war against America, and a migrant invasion which is going to destroy America.

 

[Nathan12]

What humans do to humans is appalling.

Yes, and the supposedly enlightened and benign United Nations stood by and watched genocide in Africa, the Balkans, Syria, Iraq, and other parts of the world.

 

[Corn Pop]

You don't need to see the tax returns of millionaires who become politicians but the tax returns of politicians who become millionaires.

 

[Corn Pop]

This is why I don't like socialism. Everyone gets paid the same, so quality of work decreases due to the feeling of unfairness...little pay - little work - little quality.

If everyone gets paid the same then everyone would become equally broke.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, and the supposedly enlightened and benign United Nations stood by and watched genocide in Africa, the Balkans, Syria, Iraq, and other parts of the world.

Let's not even go there.
You don't know how upset I was while all this was going on.
What good are they anyway? It's a waste of money.
Could anyone imagine the horror of seeing neighbors, children, being slaughtered while waiting, that hopefully some help would come,,,which never did - from day to day to day.

I try not to think about it too much...

 

[Corn Pop]

The UN is a cess pitt.

 

[Edward]

Christ_empowered has a thread here in the lounge asking whether or not we speak to our neighbors..or, are friendly with them.

Which brought something else to mind....

In New York City neighborhoods are divided by financial and social considerations....mostly financial. It sort of happens naturally because poorer folk can't afford the houses in richer neighborhoods. So, there are poor neighborhoods, middle class neighborhoods, upper middle class, well to do, rich, richer and richest.

I was wondering...is this a good idea or a bad idea?
I've never condisered this before...

What are the pros and cons of this set-up?

This is a pretty good question. What I think is, in considering the 2nd greatest commandment, Love the neighbor as thyself...who are our neighbors? Who are the rich's neighbors? The richest?

The poor's neighbors are others who are poor.Not much help there. The rich's neighbors are others who are rich, not much help needed there. So therein is the quandary which created the market for dependence on Government. Which is a bondage.

I think that everyone's neighbors (should be considered to be) are those less fortunate than you are. Therein would lie help for all and lessen a need for government.

The last I heard, the gross amount of taxes that the US Govt receives each year is very close to 1 trillion dollars. If no one paid taxes and we passed out that money amongst ourselves...there would be no homeless and we would be a stronger more prosperous nation and people.

 

[Corn Pop]

Some people are always having a cry and it's out of envy and jealousy, and complain.

Everyone to there own business. I don't care if people have more than me or what they do to make a living. There business is not mine.

 

[GodsGrace]

Some people are always having a cry and it's out of envy and jealousy, and complain.

Everyone to there own business. I don't care if people have more than me or what they do to make a living. There business is not mine.

However, when it comes to politics and I am forced to pay taxes then it is my business.

Yes...you've always disliked this.
The problem with taxes is that they're too high.
I , like you, have often thought of the good our tax money would make if it went into the economy instead of sending it to the govt.
It would even increase employment and taxes to the govt.

The Boston Tea Party took place because England wanted to raise taxes on tea 1/2 or 1% --- can't remember.

Then think of what part of our total income is paid out...
It's unbelievable.

The govt has taken on more and more responsibility, causing the high percentage we pay today. And in socialist countries it's even worse. Higher taxes, less services.

 

[Nathan12]

If no one paid taxes and we passed out that money amongst ourselves...there would be no homeless and we would be a stronger more prosperous nation and people.

1. Taxes are a necessary evil, since you cannot run a government without taxes. That is why Jesus said that we are to render to Caesar what is Caesar's.

2. There is a tremendous wastage of tax-payer dollars in all countries, because the spending decisions are not made by the right people, and politicians think money can be printed in abundance without any consequences. Every country could have a balanced budget and no national debt.

3. Even if no one paid taxes, hardly anyone would be thinking about helping others with that surplus money. That is is the condition of fallen mankind. That is why Jesus said that we will always have the poor with us.

 

[Michael74]

The last I heard, the gross amount of taxes that the US Govt receives each year is very close to 1 trillion dollars. If no one paid taxes and we passed out that money amongst ourselves...there would be no homeless and we would be a stronger more prosperous nation and people.

US government revenue was $3.3 trillion in 2017. That works out to about $10,000 per US citizen. Eliminating federal revenue would not help the homeless, since they don't usually pay income taxes. They would not have one extra dime in their pockets.

The US government helps to support the elderly with that revenue. People work when they are young, and pay into the system to help support themselves when they are old. The Biblical pattern is to work from age 20 to 50. That is what the Levites were told to do, who worked directly for the Lord. From 20 to 50 they were assigned regular work to do. The Lord forbade assigning them regular duties beyond 50. The able bodied were allowed to help if they wanted to, but could not be assigned duties. The Amish still follow this pattern. Turning their farms over to their eldest son at 50.

Then there is defense, roads, etc... We could help the government to run more efficiently by voting to expel lobbies from DC. Then taxes could be reduced, and the elderly and disabled could be better helped at the same time. Roads and such could be improved.

 

[Edward]

1. Taxes are a necessary evil, since you cannot run a government without taxes. That is why Jesus said that we are to render to Caesar what is Caesar's.

2. There is a tremendous wastage of tax-payer dollars in all countries, because the spending decisions are not made by the right people, and politicians think money can be printed in abundance without any consequences. Every country could have a balanced budget and no national debt.

3. Even if no one paid taxes, hardly anyone would be thinking about helping others with that surplus money. That is is the condition of fallen mankind. That is why Jesus said that we will always have the poor with us.

Agreed. But to a large extent, it could be done. (Yes, they just need to charge a fair amount of taxes and not steal it or be corrupt with it. I (think) that in the future, the spending decisions WILL be made by the right people, (during the millennial reign, when the meek inherit the earth?) When else could that happen? It kind of has to be in the millennial reign.

Then it will be like it was in the OT...they were fair with the people of the different tribes of Israel, and divvy up the land and so forth according to numbers of people in the family. Totally even I believe.

And it could catch on again in the hearts of men. It is more blessed to give than to receive and I know this because since I have been walking with the Lord again I have made efforts to obey and help the poor and less fortunate walking in Love towards my neighbors, and have probably done more in the last few years than ever before in my life...and it feels good and is sort of habit forming in a way to me.

 

[Corn Pop]

Yes...you've always disliked this.
The problem with taxes is that they're too high.
I , like you, have often thought of the good our tax money would make if it went into the economy instead of sending it to the govt.
It would even increase employment and taxes to the govt.

The Boston Tea Party took place because England wanted to raise taxes on tea 1/2 or 1% --- can't remember.

Then think of what part of our total income is paid out...
It's unbelievable.

The govt has taken on more and more responsibility, causing the high percentage we pay today. And in socialist countries it's even worse. Higher taxes, less services.

I'm not against taxes because it's good to build roads and have public toilets and public rubbish bins and picnic tables so on. Also i the government does have the right to tax what the want and how much they want. I think it's ridiculous they mess up so much and waste so much money and give to much away, it keeps taxing as much as it can to try make itself look good and like everything is stable. Always bad management.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not against taxes because it's good to build roads and have public toilets and public rubbish bins and picnic tables so on. Also i the government does have the right to tax what the want and how much they want. I think it's ridiculous they mess up so much and waste so much money and give to much away, it keeps taxing as much as it can to try make itself look good and like everything is stable. Always bad management.

Did you say above that the govt has the right to tax what they want and how much they want?

 

[Michael74]

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." US Constitution Preamble