The Poor, The Rich

[Baptistmom]

That 90% figure that gets bandied about, usually in opposition to higher taxes, is usually described incorrectly. The US has a progressive tax system, that is, the more you make, the more you pay. They're called "tax brackets". I don't remember what they are right now (and far too lazy to look them up) but that 90% figure would be on income over a certain amount. I think back in the day it was like 10 million dollars. Now, when we had those sorts of tax rates, things got DONE. The entire interstate system, NASA, airports, rural electrification, upgraded water and sewer systems, etc.

For those railing against "socialism". Please, look up the definition again. It is not the same as communism. And, if you want to keep Social Security, Medicare, police, firefighters, roads, etc., you are already supporting a form of socialism. We (my husband and I) are benefiting from these things. My husband is a Navy Vet who was diagnosed with cancer. He's been rated 100% by the VA. ALL our income, medical care, license plates, house is tax free (and free to us) along with a hefty check every month. I personally think EVERY American should be able to benefit from a strong social safety net including not going bankrupt from medical bills nor becoming homeless from the same. Think about it. Read Matthew 25:31-46 and decide which side you're on.

 

[Nathan12]

Also i the government does have the right to tax what the want and how much they want.

That is what governments would have you believe, but that is completely false. There are hundreds of things which are not supposed to be under government control or expenditures. But through government overreach, they have decided that the State knows better than the individual. Of course, Communism takes this to the extreme.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." US Constitution Preamble

So let's take this as the basis for taxation:
1. "establish justice" = a justice system (but not the mess that presently exists with criminals and terrorists getting preferential treatment)
2. "insure domestic tranquility" = a police force (that goes after the big bad guys, not the little fish)
3. "the common defense" -- defense forces (army, navy, air force, and now cyber-defense)
4. "the general welfare" -- the necessary infrastructure of health care, roads, railways, water supply, electricity, etc.
5. "the blessings of liberty" -- a constitutional government that upholds the fundamental freedoms (not a bunch of anarchists and obstructionists in D.C. bent on destroying the country)

As one can see, if this was the total extent of taxation spending, chances are a flat 10% tax would be more than enough to cover all this. The population of the USA is approximately 330 million. Assuming that only 70% of the population is gainfully employed, and the average (not median) annual income is only $50,000, the annual tax at 10% would be about 1.2 trillion dollars. And this could be on the low side.

 

[WIP]

That 90% figure that gets bandied about, usually in opposition to higher taxes, is usually described incorrectly. The US has a progressive tax system, that is, the more you make, the more you pay. They're called "tax brackets". I don't remember what they are right now (and far too lazy to look them up) but that 90% figure would be on income over a certain amount. I think back in the day it was like 10 million dollars. Now, when we had those sorts of tax rates, things got DONE. The entire interstate system, NASA, airports, rural electrification, upgraded water and sewer systems, etc.

For those railing against "socialism". Please, look up the definition again. It is not the same as communism. And, if you want to keep Social Security, Medicare, police, firefighters, roads, etc., you are already supporting a form of socialism. We (my husband and I) are benefiting from these things. My husband is a Navy Vet who was diagnosed with cancer. He's been rated 100% by the VA. ALL our income, medical care, license plates, house is tax free (and free to us) along with a hefty check every month. I personally think EVERY American should be able to benefit from a strong social safety net including not going bankrupt from medical bills nor becoming homeless from the same. Think about it. Read Matthew 25:31-46 and decide which side you're on.

Your reference to Matthew 25 has nothing to do with government intervention. Matthew 25 is about how Christians are to behave. I hear too many Christians and non-Christians alike waiting for the government to do what God calls us to do.

We must look at ourselves. What are we doing to help those around us that need help?

 

[Michael74]

...1.2 trillion dollars.

The 2018 budget is $4.094 trillion.

...70% of the population...

About 60% of Americans are employed.

 

[Corn Pop]

It is amazing how times have changed. It's now normal to wake up and send the kids to be raised by the government why both parents go out and work so one household pays double the taxes.

Before one parent would stay home and raise the children and not pay taxes.

 

[Michael74]

It is amazing how times have changed. It's now normal to wake up and send the kids to be raised by the government why both parents go out and work so one household pays double the taxes.

Education in the USA is primarily funded by state and local taxes. It would be better if the Bible were followed here:

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 KJV

 

[Corn Pop]

Education in the USA is primarily funded by state and local taxes.

Yes, and the government decides what they learn. The government teaches them. The government raises them.

 

[Michael74]

Yes, and the government decides what they learn. The government teaches them. The government raises them.

Yes. Children should be trained up to honor the Lord. Its a mistake to allow unbelievers to train up the nation's children to be unbelievers.

 

[Corn Pop]

Yes. Children should be trained up to honor the Lord. Its a mistake to allow unbelievers to train up the nation's children to be unbelievers.

They should also be trained on money and the economics, so people are not kept poor and afraid stuck working for big corporations complaining the rich have too much money and it's unfair.

 

[Michael74]

They should also be trained on money and the economics...

Absolutely. Teach people useful skills. Its silly to make them memorize long lists of trivia.

 

[Corn Pop]

What's the first thing people do when they leave education?.

 

[Nathan12]

The 2018 budget is $4.094 trillion.

Thanks for that, and it just goes to show that the government is outspending itself merrily, since money is only paper after all (right?). And let's not forget the billions going to welfare, welfare fraud and the upkeep of illegal aliens (who should all have been deported) but who get to reap all the benefits.

About 60% of Americans are employed.

Fair enough, except many statistics do not necessarily reflect the facts. On the other hand if the income of small businesses and large corporations in taken into account, the average income will probably be a lot higher. Thus everything should balance out.

What people need to understand is that governments are essentially irresponsible, and after the latest elections, many elected to office are there to destroy the country by fair means or foul. Europe and the UK have already been betrayed by their governments, who have enabled the setting up of the European Caliphate.

 

[Corn Pop]

If some people don't want to be successful, then they shouldn't complain about the people who do and are.

It smells like envy and jelousy. Some people want to be successful and are not so complain about the people who are. They make too much so should be taxed more.

 

[Baptistmom]

Ok, this is what I don't understand. Why are people who claim to be "pro-life" so opposed to something like universal health care? If you have private health insurance, your health care is STILL rationed. Your insurance company, not your doctor calls the shots. Why are you content knowing people are dying because they can't afford to see a doctor. And, if you are opposed to universal health care, what logical, rational and implementable programs do you agree with. DO not say free clinics and churches, neither one of them are capable of taking care of complex and/or expensive conditions.

 

[Baptistmom]

Your reference to Matthew 25 has nothing to do with government intervention. Matthew 25 is about how Christians are to behave. I hear too many Christians and non-Christians alike waiting for the government to do what God calls us to do.

We must look at ourselves. What are we doing to help those around us that need help?

Ahem, WE are the government. The "government" is not some big, monolithic, faceless entity. WE are the government. From those of us who vote to those of us who hold office. And, what are we doing to help those who need help? Not a thing. They get told to "Get a job", etc. but there is no infrastructure to take care of the myriad of needs the homeless and those in poverty have.
Matthew 25 applies to EVERYONE, including the people who are currently in power in the US Government. They claim to be "Christians". Why can't they act like it?

 

[Corn Pop]

If everything that is so called bad for people and is a free choice is highly taxed under the reason it's to discourage people, like smokes and alcohol for example that keep getting highly taxed, then what is the excuse for income tax?

 

[Corn Pop]

The biggest hypocracy ever. Taxing to discourage people from buying specific items yet income tax is good and it they want to encourage people to work.

 

[WIP]

Ahem, WE are the government. The "government" is not some big, monolithic, faceless entity. WE are the government. From those of us who vote to those of us who hold office. And, what are we doing to help those who need help? Not a thing. They get told to "Get a job", etc. but there is no infrastructure to take care of the myriad of needs the homeless and those in poverty have.
Matthew 25 applies to EVERYONE, including the people who are currently in power in the US Government. They claim to be "Christians". Why can't they act like it?

I agree 100% that we are the government. But to my point "we" don't all see it that way and for the most part "we" see the government as some other entity.

I disagree that we, as in the government, don't do anything for the poor. At the federal level we provide...

• Two negative income tax credits that distribute money to the poor (~$76 billion, 2018). This is not a refund from overpaid withholdings but an unearned tax credit.
• SNAP food program (~$73 billion , 2018) (formerly food stamps)
• HUD housing assistance (~$49 billion, 2018)
• SSI supplemental security income (~$53 billion, 2018)
• PELL Grants to further education for the poor (~$28 billion, 2018)
• TANF or temporary assistance for needy families (>$16B, 2018)
• Child Nutrition Programs including school meals (~$24 billion, 2018)
• Head Start programs (~$12 billion, 2018)
• Job Training programs to provide job training, displacement and employment services (~$6 billion, 2018)
• WIC women, infants, and children food program (~$6 billion, 2018)
• Child Care programs (~$6 billion, 2018)
• LIHEAP energy assistance program (~$2 billion, 2018)
• Lifeline phone and internet assistance, also called Obama Phone (~$3 billion, 2018)
• Medicaid low income health care (~$400 billion, 2018)
• Total expenditures for the above is ~$754,000,000,000.00 (~$754 billion). Here's a link if you're interested, http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-budget.html.

Here in Minnesota at the state level we also provide...

• Medical Assistance
• Minnesota Care
• SNAP Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program
• Minnesota Family Investment Program
• Diversionary Work Program
• Child support programs
• Child Care Assistance programs
• Adult publicly funded mental health services
• Children and youth publicly funded mental health services
• DHS Direct Care and Treatment services
• Total expenditures for the Minnesota human services programs was ~$15.2 billion in 2015. I was unable to find more current amounts from all sources. Here's a link to the information I found, http://www.mn.gov/mmb-stat/document...ks/narratives-october-2016/human-services.pdf.

I personally have been helped by some of these programs including medical assistance, food stamps, cash assistance, PELL grants, housing assistance, fuel assistance and others and am eternally grateful to the good citizens of my home state of Minnesota and our country for their generosity.

In fact, it was the PELL grants that made it possible for me to return to school at 30 years old and eventually gain my career. I'll never forget the day when I was able to say with some pride and joy, "I get to pay taxes this year!"

The problem is that too many of us think the state owes us a living and this is sooo not true. We rely on our government entities to do the work but stop short of digging into our own pockets when needs arise.

 

[Baptistmom]

The problem is that too many of us think the state owes us a living and this is sooo not true. We rely on our government entities to do the work but stop short of digging into our own pockets when needs arise.

Then you don't get it. You've bought into the "welfare queen" trope that Reagan started. Tell me why people should go bankrupt or rely on "Go Fund Me" to pay medical bills. Tell me why, in the allegedly richest country in the world, children go to bed hungry. You have the same attitude of so many..."yeah, I used government help but I got mine now, so you get yours and no you can't have any help".

However, I'd like to thank you for paying for my husband's cancer treatment, his list of specialists and the medications he needs. I'd also like to thank you for paying for mine. My husband donated 24 years of his life to the US Navy. He's rated 100% disabled now, directly related to that Naval service.

 

[Michael74]

Opinion polls indicate that most Americans want all citizens to be covered for medical care, like every other advanced nation in the world does.

Lord Jesus commended the good Samaritan who provided medical care to a man in need, then told people to go and do likewise.