The Poor, The Rich

[Michael74]

i think the Christian response is nationalized health care.

The majority benefit from national health care. The rich benefit from the US system. Make your choice.

 

[Christ_empowered]

The Christian worldview demands that one consider the common good and also the needs of "the least of these." an NHS-style system would offer a certain level of coverage to everyone, from all walks of life, probably at a much lower cost than the US. So...

I think support for healthcare for all is compatible with Scripture and a Christian worldview.

 

[Nathan12]

You didn't post my entire statement so I don't know how to answer you.

I quoted exactly what you said in post #64.

 

[GodsGrace]

I quoted exactly what you said in post #64.

Can it be?
That's all Mrs chatterbox said?
I wonder what I was talking about?
LOL

 

[GodsGrace]

The Christian worldview demands that one consider the common good and also the needs of "the least of these." an NHS-style system would offer a certain level of coverage to everyone, from all walks of life, probably at a much lower cost than the US. So...

I think support for healthcare for all is compatible with Scripture and a Christian worldview.

Would you agree that if something is provided "free" by the government the quality decreases?

 

[Nathan12]

I think support for healthcare for all is compatible with Scripture and a Christian worldview.

You are perfectly correct. Taxpayer dollars are for the wellbeing of all taxpayers, not politicians. There is more than enough tax revenue in any country to cover basic health care needs for everyone, and with proper checks and balances, the system can be protected from abuse. The system in the USA needed a total overhaul, but the politicians (as usual) made it a political football.

 

[Michael74]

Would you agree that if something is provided "free" by the government the quality decreases?

Not necessarily. National health care nations tend to have better longevity stats than the USA. Japan in particular is amazing. We should ask them to set up our system. BTW, the USA has a two tier system. The rich get amazing care at a few elite facilities for the rich. The rich don't generally go the same facilities that the majority do. The rich have concierge doctors that cater to the rich, and go to regional facilities for specialty care that also have special facilities set aside just for the rich.

The majority get treated differently than the rich, for astronomical prices. $8 per vial for Acthar in Europe, and $38,892 in the USA. The European med does the same thing.

 

[Corn Pop]

You are perfectly correct. Taxpayer dollars are for the wellbeing of all taxpayers, not politicians.

The government might have just found a cure.

Q. How do you stop someone getting angry and flipping out?

A. You give them a slushy.

New Zealand spent more than $700,000 on slushy machines to keep prison guards cool

New Zealand’s Department of Corrections is being criticized for spending more than $700,000 on slushy machines to reduce staff discomfort and tension that could lead to inmate violence.

www.foxnews.com

 

[GodsGrace]

Not necessarily. National health care nations tend to have better longevity stats than the USA. Japan in particular is amazing. We should ask them to set up our system. BTW, the USA has a two tier system. The rich get amazing care at a few elite facilities for the rich. The rich don't generally go the same facilities that the majority do. The rich have concierge doctors that cater to the rich, and go to regional facilities for specialty care that also have special facilities set aside just for the rich.

The majority get treated differently than the rich, for astronomical prices. $8 per vial for Acthar in Europe, and $38,892 in the USA. The European med does the same thing.

The above is true for ANYTHING.
The rich get better health care.
they eat better food,
wear better clothes, etc.
It's to be expected.

Every country has a two tier system.
No country could afford premium health care, let alone top quality health care for all its citizens.

I agree with you regarding medicine,,,I don't know why it's so expensive over there.

Do you know anything about socialized medicine?

 

[Michael74]

The rich get better health care.

You mentioned that the rich come to the US for care. I was making the point that the rich don't come for the type of care that Joe average customarily gets.

Do you know anything about socialized medicine?

Well, yes. The US has socialized medicine for the elderly (Medicare). I am familiar with how it works because my parents were on it. I may be one day too, so I have researched it. I am also familiar with two non profit health systems in my area that provide medically necessary treatment to the poor. Supported by local property taxes and such. The US also has the ACA for now, and I am familiar with that too.

 

[WIP]

Not necessarily. National health care nations tend to have better longevity stats than the USA. Japan in particular is amazing. We should ask them to set up our system. BTW, the USA has a two tier system. The rich get amazing care at a few elite facilities for the rich. The rich don't generally go the same facilities that the majority do. The rich have concierge doctors that cater to the rich, and go to regional facilities for specialty care that also have special facilities set aside just for the rich.

The majority get treated differently than the rich, for astronomical prices. $8 per vial for Acthar in Europe, and $38,892 in the USA. The European med does the same thing.

I'm curious. Who are the rich that you speak of? What is the income level you are referring to?

 

[WIP]

Well, yes. The US has socialized medicine for the elderly (Medicare). I am familiar with how it works because my parents were on it. I may be one day too, so I have researched it. I am also familiar with two non profit health systems in my area that provide medically necessary treatment to the poor. Supported by local property taxes and such. The US also has the ACA for now, and I am familiar with that too.

Maybe you missed my post here. There are quite a few government run programs designed to help the lower income households.

 

[GodsGrace]

You mentioned that the rich come to the US for care. I was making the point that the rich don't come for the type of care that Joe average customarily gets.



Well, yes. The US has socialized medicine for the elderly (Medicare). I am familiar with how it works because my parents were on it. I may be one day too, so I have researched it. I am also familiar with two non profit health systems in my area that provide medically necessary treatment to the poor. Supported by local property taxes and such. The US also has the ACA for now, and I am familiar with that too.

Of course the rich come there to get the best care possible...but it's in the U.S.,,,NOT where that rich person lives. The rich person that comes there is not interested in getting medical care from the country where he lives and the system is social.

And how does medicare work? When I lived there some doctors didn't even accept medicare patients.

And here where I live now, I like to say that healthcare is free, but if you want to get well, you'll have to pay.

For more reasons than one....

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe you missed my post here. There are quite a few government run programs designed to help the lower income households.

I would think so WIP. I mean, does the U.S. make persons die purposefully?

The care they get is probably equivalent to the care received in socialized medicine.

Doctors are paid the same,,,there's no incentive to work hard or with passion.

Instead, if I go to a private dr. here, the care is different. And what if I couldn't afford it???

The stories I could tell....

 

[Michael74]

Maybe you missed my post here. There are quite a few government run programs designed to help the lower income households.

I read your post. I was just answering Wondering's question.

 

[Michael74]

And here where I live now, I like to say that healthcare is free, but if you want to get well, you'll have to pay.

Interesting. What happened that made you unhappy with your system?

Medicare is not perfect, but its been a blessing to millions of seniors. People need insurance in the USA due to prices. A doc I knew who worked in both Mexico and the USA said he saw a lot of million dollar bills sent to patients in the USA, but not in Mexico.

I talk to American expats who retired in Mexico, and they say treatment is inexpensive and good there. A Canadian I talk to said he is quite happy with the Canadian system. Are Italians in general unhappy with your system? A man I talk to in the Philippines says he is wary of their medicine, and plans to move to Mexico. Each country is different I suppose.

 

[JohnDB]

Medicare is not perfect, but its been a blessing to millions of seniors. People need insurance in the USA due to prices.

Medicare was started as portion of Social Security... until they made seniors begin to pay for it because the costs ballooned and the amount of care dropped drastically.

IOW it once was a return for taxes paid... like a retirement program. Except that it's government run.

Let's put it this way.
Those who can opt out of Social Security and put that same amount of money into other retirement programs make out much much better than Government run programs.

And the many case studies prove this to be true. "So then why is socialized medicine and retirement still desired and promoted?" is a good question.
The answer is control...

 

[Michael74]

Those who can opt out of Social Security and put that same amount of money into other retirement programs make out much much better than Government run programs.

Interesting. I used to regularly chat with a pastor who opted out of Social Security, but didn't realize that he was also simultaneously opting out of Medicare. He was in a state of panic because of the tremendous cost of private insurance policies for the elderly.

Something similar for a school teacher who was not part of the Medicare system at the time. He told me that he was going to have to work forever because he didn't think he could afford monthly insurance premiums. He didn't care at all about the Social Security check.

 

[Michael74]

This is the area that has changed the most for recent immigrants who are 65 or older. Prior to 2014, obtaining individual health insurance for your grandmother on the private market would have been difficult or impossible, since very few major insurers were interested in selling coverage to people over 65 because of their high health risks.

Private companies don't seem to be very interested in providing policies for the elderly. I'm not sure that many elderly could even pass underwriting for private insurance policies if Medicare and the ACA are repealed, or afford them even if the bean counters approve them. Private policies were almost impossible for the elderly to obtain before.

Chile experimented with replacing their Social Security with mandatory contributions to their version of IRAs, invested in the Chilean stock market. Chile provides their seniors with national health insurance though. They could not figure out how to make private polices for the elderly work. Private insurance companies seem to have little interest in the elderly.

 

[JohnDB]

Interesting. I used to regularly chat with a pastor who opted out of Social Security, but didn't realize that he was also simultaneously opting out of Medicare. He was in a state of panic because of the tremendous cost of private insurance policies for the elderly.

Something similar for a school teacher who was not part of the Medicare system at the time. He told me that he was going to have to work forever because he didn't think he could afford monthly insurance premiums. He didn't care at all about the Social Security check.

The social security check isn't much in some locations and a decent amount in others.
In New York it's a good weekend's pocket change...
In some places like Alabama or Mississippi it's enough to live on. (But who would want to?)

The thing about it is that it's a secondary wage/income tax in the guise of a retirement program. Employer's matching funds alongside making it unimaginably profitable for the private investor but abysmal returns when it's the Government...an index fund does better even with high fees and commission payments.
The main problem is the payment schedule for those paying in is not reflective of the payments. Someone paying in on a $200k salary for 20 years receives the same benefits as someone paying on a 45k salary over 20 years.