Bible Study The "practicing of righteousness" verses in the NT

[JLB]

For example, if someone believes God and receives faith, then a year down the road God says "Do such and such" and the person decides not too, are they still in Faith?

If a year down the road they turn aside to doctrines of demons, and depart from the faith, then obviously the have left the saving faith of Jesus Christ, no longer having faith.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


JLB

 

[Nathan]

He obeyed God, no matter how big or small the act of obedience, Abraham obeyed; He responded to God's voice in a positive obedient way, demonstrating he believed God.


JLB

Genesis 12:10-13
Now there was a famine in the land. So Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there,for the famine was severe in the land. When he was about to enter Egypt, he said to Sarai his wife, “I know that you are a woman beautiful in appearance, and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me, but they will let you live. Say you are my sister, that it may go well with me because of you, and that my life maybe spared for your sake.”

This is just after God made the promise to him that he would be a great nation and bless him. Abram did not believe God would protect him through this encounter with the Pharaoh.


Genesis 16:1-2
Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. She had a female Egyptian servant whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said to Abram, “Behold now, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Go in to my servant; it may be that shall obtain children by her.” And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

He did not listen to God's voice here, instead he listened to his wife. God said specifically it would be a child from his wife.

These are two times Abram disobeyed/disbelieved God. Does that mean he had to earn back his righteousness?

 

[Nathan]

I completely believe that, as the thread is entitled we should "practice righteousness". 100% No doubt about that.

Where I have a tremendous amount of trouble is where this practicing is needed for continual Faith.

 

[Nathan]

If a year down the road they turn aside to doctrines of demons, and depart from the faith, then obviously the have left the saving faith of Jesus Christ, no longer having faith.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


JLB

We may be venturing off the thread topic. I'm not sure if that is permissible, and to what degree. Its my fault, I started it by asking the question. But I find it relative in a way.

Question being:

Classify "departing from the faith". Is it one act of unrighteousness? More?

Here is what I see written;

James 1:12-15
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

I see unrighteousness as sin, but I also see that sin is not death in and of itself. The fruit of sin is death.

 

[Nathan]

Point being, yes we live daily in Faith doing good works - or we should at least. But those times we do sin, when we are not practicing righteousness - which will happen - we should not count that as stepping out of or away from the Faith.

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[JLB]

Classify "departing from the faith".

5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:5-6

• Giving heed to a false doctrine, that causes you to depart from the faith; whereby you no longer have faith in Jesus Christ.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



JLB

 

[JLB]

But those times we do sin, when we are not practicing righteousness - which will happen - we should not count that as stepping out of or away from the Faith.

I agree.

My life is a testimony to how far God will go to bring you back from straying and backsliding.

However, if we die in that state, and never repent, or if we become so far entangled again in a lifestyle of sin and overcome, then it would have been better for us not ever having known the way of righteousness.


20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:20-22



JLB

 

[Nathan]

5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:5-6

• Giving heed to a false doctrine, that causes you to depart from the faith; whereby you no longer have faith in Jesus Christ.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



JLB

 

[JLB]

Genesis 12:10-13
Now there was a famine in the land. So Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there,for the famine was severe in the land. When he was about to enter Egypt, he said to Sarai his wife, “I know that you are a woman beautiful in appearance, and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me, but they will let you live. Say you are my sister, that it may go well with me because of you, and that my life maybe spared for your sake.”

Yes Abraham was wise shrewd and ended up blessed, because he followed the Lord.

And God demonstarted His ability to watch over Abraham, even while in Egypt.

16 He treated Abram well for her sake. He had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male and female servants, female donkeys, and camels.

17 But the Lord plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai, Abram’s wife. 18 And Pharaoh called Abram and said, “What is this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, ‘She is my sister’? I might have taken her as my wife. Now therefore, here is your wife; take her and go your way.” 20 So Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him; and they sent him away, with his wife and all that he had. Genesis 12:16-20




JLB

 

[Nathan]

I agree.

My life is a testimony to how far God will go to bring you back from straying and backsliding.

However, if we die in that state, and never repent, or if we become so far entangled again in a lifestyle of sin and overcome, then it would have been better for us not ever having known the way of righteousness.


20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:20-22



JLB

You and me both brother. I could not agree more.

Honestly, I think the way to avoid the entanglement is to practice righteousness.

But one must make sure to NEVER stray to the other side of the road in thinking they are earning anything from those good deeds.

I find myself in awe of God's love, that when by Faith He leads me to do good works. Knowing full well that they would be impossible if it were not for Him guiding me. I get to experience it. For all the righteous works He would have me do are perfect and all apart of His plan.

 

[Nathan]

Yes Abraham was wise shrewd and ended up blessed, because he followed the Lord.

And God demonstarted His ability to watch over Abraham, even while in Egypt.

16 He treated Abram well for her sake. He had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male and female servants, female donkeys, and camels.

17 But the Lord plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai, Abram’s wife. 18 And Pharaoh called Abram and said, “What is this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, ‘She is my sister’? I might have taken her as my wife. Now therefore, here is your wife; take her and go your way.” 20 So Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him; and they sent him away, with his wife and all that he had. Genesis 12:16-20




JLB

As it was foretold;

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Even though he was outside of God's will, God still looked after and upheld His Word toward Abram.

 

[JLB]

Genesis 16:1-2
Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. She had a female Egyptian servant whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said to Abram, “Behold now, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. Go in to my servant; it may be that shall obtain children by her.” And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

He did not listen to God's voice here, instead he listened to his wife. God said specifically it would be a child from his wife.

These are two times Abram disobeyed/disbelieved God. Does that mean he had to earn back his righteousness?

Abraham tried to bring about the promise of God in his own way, through his own strength, after years of patiently obeying the Lord.

Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. 2 So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. 3 Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. 4 So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.

5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and me.”

6 So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence. Genesis 16:1-6


I don't see were that is disobedience or rebelion.


Here is the Lord's testimony to Isaac about Abraham -

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5


Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Does that mean he had to earn back his righteousness?

That's the second time you have used the word "earn" righteousness.

I don't believe you can earn righteousness.


You have a right standing with God if you do what He says. Obedience.


The way we have the forgiveness of sins, is by obeying the Gospel.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Honestly, I think the way to avoid the entanglement is to practice righteousness.

I gonna have to agree with you, whole heartedly on that one. :amen

 

[JLB]

As it was foretold;

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Even though he was outside of God's will, God still looked after and upheld His Word toward Abram.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


I think the Lord led him through Egypt. Just sayin.

or maybe as a baby Christian there was much grace on him...

 

[Nathan]

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


I think the Lord led him through Egypt. Just sayin.

or maybe as a baby Christian there was much grace on him...

I think now we're getting to the meat of the topic.

I would say he started in the Faith as an infant. Just as we all do. And just like infants show different tendencies and behavior than their older siblings, so too a believer even in this day goes through a growing process.

Point being, we cannot look at our walk in Faith, and our righteous works, and impose them on other believers.

Sure, those who claim to be old in the Faith should exhibit Christ likeness more than those younger, but there is always exceptions.

Romans 14:1-12
1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

 

[JLB]

I think now we're getting to the meat of the topic.

I would say he started in the Faith as an infant. Just as we all do. And just like infants show different tendencies and behavior than their older siblings, so too a believer even in this day goes through a growing process.

Point being, we cannot look at our walk in Faith, and our righteous works, and impose them on other believers.

Sure, those who claim to be old in the Faith should exhibit Christ likeness more than those younger, but there is always exceptions.

Romans 14:1-12
1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Ok. But that's a whole other principle of ... To whom much is given, much is expected.


I'm still on what the righteousness of faith is and the principle of faith.

Faith without works is dead, just as a body without the spirit is dead, and does not function.

Let's discuss the different "works" described in scripture from the context.

Most Christians hear "works" and are programmed to reject anything to do with it, thinking the works of the law are being implied.

Can we honestly discuss the different works that are mentioned in connection with righteous and faith and salvation ?


JLB

 

[Nathan]

Ok. But that's a whole other principle of ... To whom much is given, much is expected.


I'm still on what the righteousness of faith is and the principle of faith.

Faith without works is dead, just as a body without the spirit is dead, and does not function.

Let's discuss the different "works" described in scripture from the context.

Most Christians hear "works" and are programmed to reject anything to do with it, thinking the works of the law are being implied.

Can we honestly discuss the different works that are mentioned in connection with righteous and faith and salvation ?


JLB

I think we have to realize that Faith does have works, and without it is dead - but how much works define a faith that is alive?

I think it would not only be completely applicable to this thread, but a very good study to discuss the different works that are mentioned in connection with righteousness, faith, and salvation.

We have to also take into consideration, throughout this discussion/study, that just as two people do not look alike, neither will two faith based "works".

What we can say, unequivocally, is that ALL faith based works result in the same outcome - fruit - and that is giving glory to God.

 

[JLB]

I think we have to realize that Faith does have works, and without it is dead - but how much works define a faith that is alive?

One of the scriptures that use the word works is from Romans 4.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. Romans 4:1-4

Paul has just posed a brilliant legal argument, about the the works of the law vs the righteousness apart from the law, in the previous Chapter.

In Chapter 4 Paul uses Abraham, who was before the law, and a well respected Patriarch, as an example.

In this context, we see that Paul is referring to "working to earn" righteousness.

Working in order to earn as payment, a right standing with God.

...as he goes on to say in the next verse.


But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, Romans 4:5


However, believe carries the idea of commitment and obedience.

Disobedience = Unbelief - Same Greek word, and is used interchangeably in the New Testament based on version.

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV

So I'm not at all saying or proposing that we have to work to earn righteousness.

• I am saying that works to earn, is different from the work of obedience.

• I am am saying that the principle of the law of faith is obedience, as opposed to "work to earn as payment".

• The works that James describes is a reference to obedience, not "work to earn as payment".

Can we discuss faith from this perspective?

The law of faith, is governed by the principle of obedience, just as the law of sin and death, is governed by the principle of disobedience.


Disobedience and Unbelief are the same, and should be understood as such.


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Romans 3:27-28


The law of faith = Believe/Obey = Divine Result.

...that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

And = Two things



JLB

 

[Nathan]

One of the scriptures that use the word works is from Romans 4.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. Romans 4:1-4

Paul has just posed a brilliant legal argument, about the the works of the law vs the righteousness apart from the law, in the previous Chapter.

In Chapter 4 Paul uses Abraham, who was before the law, and a well respected Patriarch, as an example.

In this context, we see that Paul is referring to "working to earn" righteousness.

Working in order to earn as payment, a right standing with God.

...as he goes on to say in the next verse.


But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, Romans 4:5


However, believe carries the idea of commitment and obedience.

Disobedience = Unbelief - Same Greek word, and is used interchangeably in the New Testament based on version.

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV

So I'm not at all saying or proposing that we have to work to earn righteousness.

• I am saying that works to earn, is different from the work of obedience.

• I am am saying that the principle of the law of faith is obedience, as opposed to "work to earn as payment".

• The works that James describes is a reference to obedience, not "work to earn as payment".

Can we discuss faith from this perspective?

The law of faith, is governed by the principle of obedience, just as the law of sin and death, is governed by the principle of disobedience.


Disobedience and Unbelief are the same, and should be understood as such.


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Romans 3:27-28


The law of faith = Believe/Obey = Divine Result.

...that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

And = Two things



JLB

Ok. So, we have established that earning righteousness is non-existent.

I think its simple actually. I believe in continual obedience to the Faith. As in, continual belief in Christ finished work on the cross - the sacrifice for our sins.

I believe that it manifests itself in our daily lives through our continual Faith. That continual Faith, shows itself in righteous works. How that looks to others is different.

While it may show itself in different "acts", the end result is the same. Love. For God is love. What He does through us is love. Anything outside of that is not of God.

 

[Nathan]

How I see that working out in my life is like this;

I believe that I was born in sin. That sin is what keeps me separated from God. That God, because of love, showed me not only that I am a sinner(through His law) but also showed me that He desires me by sacrificing His Son.

That was done so the life I now live, I can live showing others the same thing. That they are separated from God, but He desires them, and Christ died for them also.

More specifically, God is the Creator and we are His creation. He desires fellowship, but our own passions keep us from that. Fellowship with Him is in the form of worship and service. He uses us to do things for Him. Because of the righteousness given me, I am now in right standing with Him - but only through the work Christ did.

I am continually seen as righteous before Him through Christ's mediation before Him. So now I show love to those around me. However that is, it is all done in love. It can take on numerous forms.

We see examples of it throughout the Bible. Not only were the things done in Faith by people of God for God, they were done to point others to God. That is the totality of our existence right now. To show God's love through whatever we do. If that were not the case, then God would have no reason to leave us here in our sinful flesh.