The Pre Tribulation Rapture: Fact or Fiction?

[reba]

In your rapture theory do you include the resurrection?

Pretty sure I did. All in those two long posts I made awhile back.

Cant find em searching this thread ... must be a different thread ... we sure can get lost in the postings

Searching the words "resurrection" and "resurrections"

 

[turnorburn]

Is it fact or fiction? Neither! Its a lie!

Hi everyone....
I'm back..

tob

Hi tob and welcome back. Have you ever read the fifty "Reasons for holding a Pre-Tribulation Rapture position" by Pastor Don McKay? If you have, what'd you think of it? If he was mistaken, I do not believe him to have been lying. Thanks.

Hi Eugene! Don and i were good friends, did you know he's gone to be with Jesus? We disagreed but remained friends unlike a couple of other folks that got so upset they no longer speak to me. I've been a Christian 43 years, I've never believed it, and i never will..

tob

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene! Don and i were good friends, did you know he's gone to be with Jesus? We disagreed but remained friends unlike a couple of other folks that got so upset they no longer speak to me. I've been a Christian 43 years, I've never believed it, and i never will..

Yeah I do know about Don. Since you don't believe it, it might be interesting to hear your reasoning. Don went with the two half's of tribulation if I got it right. Thanks tob.

 

[turnorburn]

The rapture theory is nothing more than a doctrine I don't believe in ( edited..reba)

 

[turnorburn]

I don't jest about Gods Word Edward..

tob

 

[Eugene]

The rapture theory is nothing more than a doctrine of demons.

Let's hear it, and show me what you've got. Was Don a demon?

 

[10s3r]

You've misrepresented my view of a pre trib. I've never said there will be
chaos, I've never said the elect were jews. I do think that there may not be
chaos because it says that when we are taken that God will send a strong
delusion that they that are left will believe the lie. The world may not even
realize that we are gone at that point!

I can't address who the elect is
right now, I don't my notes in front of me, and am not going to pull them out
right now. It is long and complicated and not absolutely all questions were
answered, but there is enough evidence in the scriptures to support a rational
view of a pre trib rapture.

You, or anyone is welcome to go back and re
read my two long posts on the issue and ask rational questions about it and I'll
take the time to respond to them. Do some copy paste, I'm not interested in
typing it all out again. I wont respond to inane arrogant posts, but will
rational discussion. Believe what you want to believe.

At least most of the other stuff you posted about is clearly
addressed in my two posts I made on the subject before. Of course you would have
to read them with an open mind, and not a mind simply bent on discrediting it,
to be able to understand it.

I didn't misrepresent your view because the post wasn't directed to anyone in particular.

 

[10s3r]

The passage of the thief in the night is often misunderstood. Paul starts off by telling the Thessalonian's that there's no need for him to tell them about the times and seasons surrounding the Lord's return because they already know. His words are almost contradictory. In verse 2 he says, "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

And then in verse 4 he says, "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

So the question then becomes who is the 'they' of verse 3.

'But' is a conjunction that shows opposition and distinction. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness." Paul is showing the difference between those who don't know the times and seasons surrounding the time of the Lords return as opposed to those who do.

SO. The theif in the night is more applicable to those who say, "Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." THE THEIF IN THE NIGHT DOESN'T OVERTAKE CHRISTIANS.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

IT OVERTAKES UNBELIEVERS AND THEREFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD IS SAID TO COME UPON THEM "AS A THEIF IN THE NIGHT."

1 Thessalonians 5:1 ¶But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[n2thelight]

The passage of the thief in the night is often misunderstood. Paul starts off by telling the Thessalonian's that there's no need for him to tell them about the times and seasons surrounding the Lord's return because they already know. His words are almost contradictory. In verse 2 he says, "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

And then in verse 4 he says, "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

So the question then becomes who is the 'they' of verse 3.

'But' is a conjunction that shows opposition and distinction. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness." Paul is showing the difference between those who don't know the times and seasons surrounding the time of the Lords return as opposed to those who do.

SO. The theif in the night is more applicable to those who say, "Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." THE THEIF IN THE NIGHT DOESN'T OVERTAKE CHRISTIANS.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

IT OVERTAKES UNBELIEVERS AND THEREFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD IS SAID TO COME UPON THEM "AS A THEIF IN THE NIGHT."

1 Thessalonians 5:1 ¶But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

That is soooo true,Christians should be in the light,that the day cannot take them as a theif.......They always use that verse,but never get the other...

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[lowrab777]

Just for the record I dont really think the rapture is pre trib but I know it takes place at his coming as the scripture says then we will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the LAST TRUMP..................
But a thougt just accured to me. what better way to DISCOURAGE Christains than to have them all thinking that they will not have to endure tribulation, knowing that they will ..........
As a christain I have been made aware numerous times that satan uses this tactic on me. I have learned that the shield of faith is the substance that establishes what you believe. It is the only thing that quenches the firey darts of satan.

Now when I am wounded and do not understand why,... the most discouraging thought satan could impose on me is that i deserve it and that God has forsaken me. Or that I have done so wrong that my situation is hopeless.... Well I know better than that, the sword of spirit and the helmet of salvation are my tools............

but it is an enduring thing to have to conjure up the faith to see an ugly situation through over and over in life...... Its like God is teaching me that no matter how dark the hour may be, I am encouraged to maintain faith and hope that God has not forsaken me and that I should stand in righteousness and truth........

Now the thing about dispair is that one is discouraged to point that they have no need to stand in righteousness or truth....I mean why should they if there is no hope....?

I wonder how many will fall victim to this tactic when they find themselves in the middle of tribulation and there has been no deliverance....?

 

[10s3r]

I don't jest about Gods Word Edward..

tob

Good, then what about the doctrine of imminency?

There is no doctrine of imminence.
Even here things must pass before the Lord can return!
Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

Could the rapture be imminent before Peter died?​

John 21:18-19

Could the rapture be imminent before the temple was destroyed? Lu 21:6, Mt 24:2, Mk 13:2

Could the rapture be imminent before Israel became a nation in 1948? Daniel 9:24

Can rapture be imminent if "the Antichrist" must be revealed first? 2 Th 2:1-4

Can the rapture be imminent before the sun and moon grow dark and the signs described by our Lord come to pass? Luke 21:28

 

[lowrab777]

We should not let satin steal our armour. He wants the thief to get as many as he possibly can.

 

[lowrab777]

It is my understanding that the so called rapture will probably be when the two witnesses rise at the last trump when the mystery of god will be revealed and the whole earth will see him coming on the clouds

 

[n2thelight]

I wonder how many will fall victim to this tactic when they find themselves in the middle of tribulation and there has been no deliverance....?

Amen.....The worst thing that can happen during the trib is,one could lose their life,tell how many have lost their life for Chirst throughout history.....

 

[n2thelight]

It is my understanding that the so called rapture will probably be when the two witnesses rise at the last trump when the mystery of god will be revealed and the whole earth will see him coming on the clouds

Christ returns(2nd coming)3 1/2 days after the two are killed.....no rapture,just the 2nd coming....

 

[10s3r]

The biggest danger to a post trib (I feel) is that we may get caught up in
the affairs of the world, and be waiting upon prophecies to be fulfilled

That's actually the big problem with pre-trib. If there's no rapture then that means there's no other prophecy passing!

 

[reba]

2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

 

[10s3r]

That's actually the big problem with pre-trib. If there's no rapture then that means there's no other prophecy passing!

I can tell that you haven't actually studied the pre trib view because that is absolutely incorrect.

Is a snide remark your way of countering what I said?

How do you know how much time I have studying the false hope of pretribulationism?

I probably have more time studying it than you have sitting at the dinner table.
If Christians didn't have a bad attitude, they wouldn't have a personality at all!

 

[Sparkey]

I'm one of those who has heard many things about that (eschatology and the study of last things). Have I studied? More so than others but not enough for me to say it outright. So no. I have not studied affluently nor sufficiently. But what have I studied? What has the one who names himself after a type of bird turned that bird-brain toward? I like words. I like knowing what different words mean and from whence they derive their origins. So here I am, flying (or flitting as the case may be) around and I see a warning made by a moderator. Was it heeded? I'm unsure as I have not studied this. What does the word "snide" mean? Now there, I might say something.

Snide is a adjective. Adjectives modify or describe a person or a thing in a sentence. When used to describe things 'snide' is a derogatory term that carries an aspect of mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks". When spoken of in reference to a person it may mean devious and underhanded.

Ad hominem attacks are directed toward the man more so than they are spoken toward the subject. These things are judgment calls. Was that a 50-50 split that I just saw? Was it more like 35-65? If the later, how much was to the man and how much was to the subject? Such judgment calls are reserved to the Staff here on Christian Forums. When such things are called into attention by Members the Staff knows that there is at minimum some concern and general respect for the rules and the policies and the terms of the agreement that all have entered into in exchange for the Service that is given here. But when such things are spoken of publicly and announced or questioned? Well, then the question comes, "Does the Member who behaves this way know about the Report Function?" You see, there is a little triangle icon with a (!) exclamation point inside of it located at the bottom left of every post.

It is there that any Member may report a post or a thread if they suspect or believe a line has been crossed and they would like to call the attention of the Moderators to that belief. Now, you should also know that each area of our forum is sectioned off for reason. That's pretty simple. Most Members understand this almost intuitively and can tell when an 'Introduction, "Hi! I'm new here"' is posted in the wrong forum, like if it was found in the 'Current Events & Politics' area. That being the case, it's a simple matter to either PM any moderator or use the [Report Post] function by clicking the Triangle Icon with the (!) in it on the Bottom-Left of each post and report it.

Along with that we may also notice that each Moderator is assigned a primary field of focus -meaning that each area of the forum, be it General Talk or 'Forum || Christian Topics || End Times', has its own assigned Moderator or Team of Moderators. That information may be found by looking toward the top, above the Post itself, to the blue menu-bar for the clickable button labeled [Quick Links] and then, from the drop-down choosing and clicking where it says, "The Staff Team". You may notice that the one who is speaking now is not assigned to the End Times forum. I'd say that is for good reason (as mentioned above) when I said that I have not studied nor do I consider myself to have an affluent amount of knowledge on the subject.

Still, I may be counted on to come in on occasion and give my SQUAWK: Stop it! Cease the activity and Desist (do not take it up again). Do no longer address things toward personalities but instead respect the right of each Member here to continue in their peaceful enjoyment of the conversations we partake in during our habitation together here.

-Moderator

I may hasten to add that this comment is made like reba said:

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.