The Pre WRATH rapture of the church

[Biblereader]

The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the saints

1 Thess. 5:9: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Thess. 2:1-3- 1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In the Day of the Lord, just like in Noah's day, there will be righteous people saved from the wrath.
The Lord forewarns us, just like the angels sent by God, to Lot, in Sodom and Gomorrah, warned Lot and his family to flee
those wicked cities, before God rains fire and brimstone. Just so, before the wrath of God, spoken of in Revelation, the
saints will be removed.

The wrath of God: 9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Here is an overlooked, and never preached about, scripture, which looks to me, to be Jesus coming back to earth, and taking the saints who are still alive,
up to heaven,and before that, taking the dead in Christ:

13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14: And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15: And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16: And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Compare Scripture with Scripture:
Acts 1: 9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Jesus, on a cloud, and in Rev., Jesus is called, rightfully so, the Son of man.

Back to the subject, the wrath of God:
(which the saints will not suffer, but, the wrath doesn't happen until Rev. chapter 15:
Rev. 15: 1: And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev. 15: 6: And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
7: And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
8: And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Go to Rev. Ch. 16:
1: And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2: And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3: And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4: And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

Rev. Ch. 16:8: And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10: And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11: And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
After the seventh angel pours his vial into the air, God says, IT IS DONE.
Then, comes Judgement from God, on the Great Whore of Babylon, drunk with the blood of prophets, and of saints....
Next, comes the marriage supper of the Lamb:
Revelation 19:
6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8: And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9: And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
THEN Jesus comes back to the earth, to make war against the beast, and the false prophet, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
NOTE: Once you take the mark of the beast, you can't turn back. That is your seal of eternal damnation. You will be then deceived by the false prophet.
Next, Jesus slays with the sword that proceeds out of His mouth.
Next, chapter 20, comes an angel of God: 1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Next in Scripture, comes the Great White Throne Judgement.
Some people who are reading this, will be cast into the Lake of Fire, because they refuse to repent, and let Jesus
be their Lord. Others, will be awakened, spiritually, and will run to Jesus, and in faith accept the free gift of salvation!
Glory to God!

11: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
1: And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

 

[azlan88]

Thanks, Bible Reader. I've been struggling with this subject for a while now, but the quotes you gave put things back into perspective for me. As for all you who don't believe in the rapture, remember these words of Abraham to God:

Far be it from you to do such a thing--to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genises 18:25)

God will pour out his wrath "full strength" upon the earth at the time of the end, but He will spare the just who are cleansed by the blood of His Son.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

tribulation is for the good of the saints and God. judgement comes first to the church. Then the wrath comes after in the vials on the world soley everyone needs to first be seperated either unto God or satan- needs to have the mark of God or the beast before we are seperated perminently for the wrath to come

 

[Benoni]

There is no rapture and there is no second coming. The Great tribulation is for the believers to overcome in an not the world. Tribulation is for our spiritual development, not the escapism of the false second coming and rapture dogma.

Acts 14:22 (WE) They talked to the disciples to help them. They told them to keep on believing. They said, `We must go through much trouble to get into God's kingdom.'

Acts 14:22 (MSG) 21-22After proclaiming the Message in Derbe and establishing a strong core of disciples, they retraced their steps to Lystra, then Iconium, and then Antioch, putting muscle and sinew in the lives of the disciples, urging them to stick with what they had begun to believe and not quit, making it clear to them that it wouldn't be easy: "Anyone signing up for the kingdom of God has to go through plenty of hard times

Acts 14:22 (YLT) 22confirming the souls of the disciples, exhorting to remain in the faith, and that through many tribulations it behoveth us to enter into the reign of God,

Acts 14:22 (HCSB) 22 strengthening the hearts [a] of the disciples by encouraging them to continue in the faith, (A) and by telling them, "It is necessary to pass through many troubles (B) on our way into the kingdom of God."

Acts 14:22 (WYC) 22 confirming the souls of the disciples, and admonishing, that they should dwell in the faith, and said [and saying], That by many tribulations it behooveth us to enter into the kingdom of heavens.

 

[Benoni]

Most people have the idea that tribulation means wrath, judgment, torment and vengeance.

The Greek word is thlipsis, meaning "pressure."

It is derived from the word thilbo that means "to crowd, to be pressed upon in a narrow place. Pressures are used to PRESS US INTO THE KINGDOM! Trying to pray ourselves out of these distresses only defeats their very purpose. But when, in the midst of our pressures, we pray that God would bring us deeper into Himself, then these very straits have served their purpose — for they have channeled us into Him."

The idea that the "Great Tribulation" is going to be poured out upon the world is a stupidity that contradicts every scripture passage on tribulation in the whole New Testament! Perhaps we have been casual in reading the very words of the Lord Jesus to His own, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (Jn. 16:33). Mark the connection of thought! He clearly did not say, "On this earth the world is going to get the tribulation. I will surely rain out upon the unbelieving, misguided, sinful and rebellious masses of earth the fierceness of my wrath and the fury of my judgment. But be of good cheer, for you will not be partakers of this tribulation — I will come and evacuate you to heaven before that great and terrible day of the Lord comes." No such optimistic tantalization as this! The testimony of the Lord standeth sure, "In the world YE shall have tribulation." YE!

Tribulation simply means "pressure," and great tribulation mean "great pressure." Everybody, on some level, experiences pressure in this world. Pressure, in modern medical terms, is called external stress factors. Physicians now recognize the great importance of internal stress, caused by reaction to external stress factors, in causing and aggravating a host of diseases. In this world all of us are subjected to a host of stresses — just as Jesus said! Examination of the blood of a person experiencing internal stress will reveal the presence of abnormal toxic chemical compounds that are formed as a result of his emotions of frustration, resentment, anger, hate, anxiety, worry and fear — which result in a number of diseases. The cares of this world have turned many peoples lives into a pressure cooker. Not to speak of war, persecution, or martyrdom — just the strain of everyday living in our modern society is steadily growing worse because of financial problems, higher taxes, inflation, recession, joblessness, terrorism, the disturbing world situation, responsibilities, sickness, hospital bills, rebellion in the home, drugs, street gangs and a host of other conditions.

The distractions and pressures of "this life" are too numerous to mention, we are all faced with them every day, but when they so overwhelm us, so mar our lives with anxiety, stress, fatigue and distraction that we find ourselves so distressed and depressed that we are not able to gather ourselves together and walk in the joy, peace, and victory of the kingdom of God — then we have not discovered that HE THAT IS WITHIN US IS MIGHTY AND HAS OVERCOME THE WORLD!

 

[azlan88]

You haven't provided any Biblical evidence that there is no rapture. Nor did you provide any Biblical evidence that Christ is not coming back.

I, however, will provide Biblical evidence that Christ is coming back. I took this article fragment from a random source, but it uses Bible verses to make its argument:

The Second Coming is when Jesus Christ will return to earth in fulfillment of His promises and to fulfill the prophecies made about Him. Jesus Himself promised, "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory" (Matthew 24:30). Revelation 19:11-12 proclaims this about the Second Coming, "I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself."

Those who witnessed Christ's ascension into heaven after his death and resurrection heard the angels declare in Acts 1:11, "Men of Galilee…why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." The Second Coming is the literal return of Jesus Christ to earth as King in power and glory to rule for a thousand years (Revelation 20:1-6).

You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.allaboutgod.com/the-second-coming.htm


Now here's Biblical evidence for the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17,


13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[(THE)]

This is not a rapture,,,,,,and its a weak attempt to try and make one,,,,,you making a doctrine out of one scriputre......Besides Paul cleared this up in Thess 2.......

Also Matthew 24 and Mark 13 tells us plainly ,,,,what will happen ,its says nothing of rapture...\

Revelation 9 documents there will be christians (elects) un earth during the tribulation,,,,,,are you an elect????????

And there are many other scriptures that make the rapture laughable (it it werent such a serious issue)

We also have a type of tribulation mentiond in Daniel 3 giving us an example that we will be tested and go thru the tribulation....

Also the word "cloud" is not refering to a cloud in the sky,,,,see hebrews 12.....

and the word "air" does not mean air like air in the sky ,,,here check it out

"Air" in the Greek dictionary is #109, and is the "breath of life..........

 

[XTruth]

His Coming = 7 yrs after Rapture when He comes to earth WITH the saints (Isa.63:1-6; Dan.2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18, 27; Joel 3; Zech.14:1-5, 9, 16-21; Mat.24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thes.1:7-10; 2:8; Jude 14-15; Rev.1:7; 19:11-16; 20:1-3). Rapture = Before the 7 Yr Trib. When He comes back FOR the saints (1 Cor.15:23, 51-54; Jn.14:1-3; Lk.21:34-36; 2 Cor.5:1-8; Eph.5:27; Phil.3:11, 20-21; 1 Thes.2:19; 3:13; 4:13-17; 5:9, 23; 2 Thes.2:1, 7; Col.3:4; Jas.5:7-8; 1 Jn.2:28; 3:2; 1 Pt.5:4; Rev.4:1).

 

[(THE)]

His Coming = 7 yrs after Rapture when He comes to earth WITH the saints (Isa.63:1-6; Dan.2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18, 27; Joel 3; Zech.14:1-5, 9, 16-21; Mat.24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thes.1:7-10; 2:8; Jude 14-15; Rev.1:7; 19:11-16; 20:1-3). Rapture = Before the 7 Yr Trib. When He comes back FOR the saints (1 Cor.15:23, 51-54; Jn.14:1-3; Lk.21:34-36; 2 Cor.5:1-8; Eph.5:27; Phil.3:11, 20-21; 1 Thes.2:19; 3:13; 4:13-17; 5:9, 23; 2 Thes.2:1, 7; Col.3:4; Jas.5:7-8; 1 Jn.2:28; 3:2; 1 Pt.5:4; Rev.4:1).

Rev 4:1 you gotta be kidding bro,,,Lets just take a moment to show hoe rapturist like to play and add things to scripture.....

Revelation 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

After this John looked up and John heard ,,,the voice told John to come up.......

Revelation 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."

and immediately John was in the spirit......

Now I know rapture people like to say this is the church being raptured :rolling :rolling

But if people would read they would see John was taken,,,and the church isnt even mentioned.....

Im sure I could do this with every verse you provided.........

 

[XTruth]

Chapter 4

Notes For Verse 1

a [After this]





Chart: Ten Proofs the Rapture Takes Place in Rev. Chapter 4 Verse 1

Ten Proofs the Rapture Takes Place in Rev. Chapter 4 Verse 1



Greek: meta (GSN-<G3326>) tauta (GSN-<G5023>), after these things (note a, Jn. 5:1). This Greek phrase is used at the beginning and at end of this verse thus: "After these things (after writing the things concerning the churches of Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3) I looked ... a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice ... said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be after these things," that is, after the churches (Rev. 4:1). This confirms and settles the question as to the time of the fulfillment of all the events of Rev. 4:22. They must be after these things of the churches, or after the rapture of the church. The church is no longer on earth when the events of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 take place.



1. Christ said the things of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 "must be hereafter," that is, after the churches, as proved above and also in note, Rev. 1:19. If this is true, then the church is raptured before these things of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22, and after the things of the churches of Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3. If the things which are (Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3) concern the church, then the "things which must be" after "the things which are" must concern events after the churches. The church must be here during the time of the fulfillment of the things concerning the churhes, and it must not be here during the fulfillment of the things after the churches. The church then is raptured in Rev. 4:1 between "the things which are" (Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3) and "the things which must be hereafter," that is, after the churches (Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22).



2. The word "church" is found 19 times in Rev. 1 -- Rev. 3 but not once in the third division of the book which contains "the things which must be" after the churches (Rev. 4:1 -- Rev. 22:5). The church is found again in the conclusion of the book (Rev. 22:6-21), but only after "the things which must be" are fully revealed. If the church were on earth during the fulfillment of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 it certainly would be mentioned.



3. The enthroned elders are representative of the raptured saints and they are always seen in heaven after Rev. 4:1. See note, Rev. 4:4.



4. The 70th week of Daniel will be the last seven years of this age, during which time all of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19; Mt. 24 -- Mt. 25 will be fulfilled. This week concerns Israel, not the church. Therefore, the church must be raptured before this week. See Rapture and Second Coming.



5. There is no place for the rapture of the church and the Old Testament saints other than in Rev. 4:1. The man-child and the great tribulation saints are the only ones to be saved and raptured during Daniel's 70th week, and these are distinct groups from the church and the Old Testament saints, as proved in notes on Rev. 4:4. Therefore, the church is either caught up in Rev. 4:1 -- after the churches of Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3 and before the events coming after the churches of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 -- or it is never mentioned in Revelation as to its rapture. If it were to be caught up anytime during this week, it surely would have been mentioned. The church could not be the man-child or the tribulation saints, as proved in notes on Rev. 7; Rev. 12; Rev. 14.



6. In Lk. 21:34-36 we have the promise of Jesus that the saved will be accounted worthy to escape all these things, and to stand before the Son of Man. The things they will escape are those of Mt. 24:4-26; Lk. 21:4-19 and Rev. 6 -- Rev. 19.



7. In 1Th. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that saints will escape the wrath of God (of Rev. 6-19). God has not appointed us to this wrath, but to obtain deliverance through Jesus Christ so we can live with Christ (1Th. 5:9-11). How could saints comfort one another (as stated in this scripture and in 1Th. 4:16-17; Tit. 2:13) if the only hope they had was the coming wrath of God in the future tribulation?



8. In 2Th. 2:6-8 it is definitely shown that the rapture takes place before the revelation of the Antichrist and before the 70th week of Daniel. The events of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19 will take place during this week, so the rapture must take place in Rev. 4:1.



9. There is a marked change in God's attitude toward humanity in general, from that of mercy (Rev. 1 -- Rev. 3) to that of judgment (Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19). The seals, trumpets, and vials all picture judgment throughout Daniel's 70th week. If the church does not go through any of these things, as proved already, then the rapture must take place in Rev. 4:1.



10. An individual or a body of individuals can be identified by peculiarities and characteristics. If the church is to be on earth and is the subject of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19 , then its earmarks should be seen. But such are not to be found. On the other hand, earmarks of Israel are seen throughout the book after Rev. 4:1. The earmarks of the church are seen up to this point only. This proves that two different institutions are dealt with in different parts of the book: first, the church until its rapture in Rev. 4:1; second, Israel after the rapture of the church to the second coming of Christ (Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19).

—Dake's Study Notes

 

[Cornelius]

Praise God the WRATH is after the Tribulation.

That is why God uses two different words .............. 1) tribulation.........2) wrath

 

[XTruth]

Rapture before Antichrist

The church will continue to hinder lawlessness until the rapture. And then the Antichrist will be revealed. This is conclusive proof that the rapture takes place before Daniel's 70th week and the tribulation of Rev. 6:1-19:21. According to Daniel 9:27, Antichrist will be here for 7 years, for he makes a 7-year covenant with Israel. If he is here for 7 years, which will be the last 7 years of this age, and if he who hinders lawlessness refers to the church and is taken out of the way before he comes, then the rapture will take place before the last 7 years of this age and before the Antichrist comes at the beginning of those 7 years.

—Dake's Topics

Rapture Before the Tribulation, 7 Proofs of the

7 PROOFS OF THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION

Proof 1

In 2 Thess. 2:1-12 we have a clear proof that the church and O.T. saints will be raptured before the day of the Lord, that is before the second advent, and before the Revelation of the Antichrist, before Daniel's 70th week, before the future tribulation, and before the last seven years of this age which ends with the second advent of Christ to the earth.

In 2 Thess. 2:1-4 Paul beseeches saints not to be deceived by any means or by anybody, as to the coming of the day of the Lord, or the second advent. The two things that were to precede the day of the Lord are:



1. "A great falling away" and

2. "That man of sin be revealed" (2 Thess. 2:3).



Besides these two things Paul revealed that a third great event would take place, this one to precede the day of the Lord or second advent, and also precede the revelation of the man of sin. He said, "he who now letteth [hinders] will let [hinder] until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed" (2 Thess. 2:7-8). Thus it is clear that the hinderer of lawlessness will be taken out of the way before the Antichrist can come. "Our gathering together unto him" of 2 Thess. 2:1 and the hinderer of lawlessness being "taken out of the way" of 2 Thess. 2:7-8 refer to the same event-the rapture of the church and O.T. saints before the Revelation of the Antichrist. And then-when he who hinders lawlessness is taken out of the way-shall that Wicked be revealed.

Two Comings of the Lord From Heaven,But Only One Coming to the Earth

1. A coming of the Lord out of heaven for the saints to meet them in the air and to take them to heaven without coming to the earth (1 Thess. 1:10; 1 Thess 2:19-20; 1 Thess 3:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Thess 5:1-11,23; 2 Thess. 2:1,7-8; John. 14:1-3; Lk. 21:34-36; Col. 3:4; Eph. 5:27; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 5:8-10; Rev 19:1-10).

2. A coming of the Lord out of heaven with His previously raptured saints to bring them to the earth to fight at Armageddon and to set up a kingdom in the world forever (Rev. 19:1-21; Jude 14-15; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; 2 Thess 2:7-8; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Mt. 16:27; Mt 24:29-31; Mt 25:31-46; Zech. 14:1-5; Dan. 2:44-45; Dan 7:9-14,18,22,27).

Twelve Truths of 2 Thess. 2:1-12 That the Thessalonians Knew About

1. That it was possible to be deceived about the rapture and the second advent (2 Thess. 1:1-3).

2. That the day of the Lord, or the second advent, was not at hand and therefore, it was not the time for the Lord to be here reigning on earth (2 Thess. 2:3).

3. That they were not to permit themselves to be deceived (2 Thess. 2:3).

4. That the day of the Lord would begin only at the second advent (2 Thess. 2:3; Zech. 14:1-5).

5. That this day of the Lord, or the second advent, could not have already come because the great apostasy and the Revelation of the man of sin had not yet come (2 Thess. 2:3).

6. That the man of sin will take over the Jewish temple at Jerusalem and declare himself to be God (2 Thess. 2:4). See Rev. 13;Rev 14:9-11; Rev 15:1-4; Rev 20:4-6; Dan. 9:27; Mt. 24:15-22,29-31.

7. That the man of sin (the Wicked one or Antichrist) has a definite time to be revealed (2 Thess. 2:6-8).

8. That "he" who hinders lawlessness and holds back the man of sin will be entirely removed before he will fully come (2 Thess. 2:5-8).

9. That the mystery of lawlessness is already at work in the world (2 Thess. 2:7).

10. That Paul's doctrines had not changed regarding the rapture and the day of the Lord, as false teachers had reported, even forging a letter in his name (2 Thess. 2:2,5).

11. That the man of sin (Antichrist) would be destroyed by Christ at the second advent when the day of the Lord begins (2 Thess. 2:7-8). See Dan. 7:11; Rev. 19:20;Rev 20:10.

12. That Antichrist will come after the working of Satan with all power and great deceptions (2 Thess. 2:8-12). See Mt. 24:24; Rev. 13:1-18; Dan. 8:24-25; Dan 11:37-45.

Seven Other Facts About the Rapture in 1&2 Thessalonians

1. The church waits for Jesus to come from heaven (1 Thess. 1:10).

2. The church will be taken to glory (1 Thess. 2:12; cf. Col. 3:4).

3. Soul winners will have great joy at this coming (1 Thess. 2:19-20).

4. The saints will be established unblameable before God in heaven (1 Thess. 3:13).

5. Both the dead and living in Christ will be raptured to heaven to live with Christ (1 Thess. 4:13-18; cf. John. 14:1-3; Phil. 3:21).

6. God has appointed all saved men to escape His latter-day wrath on men (1 Thess. 5:1-11; cf. Lk. 21:34-36).

7. Saints will be made whole in body, soul, and spirit at the rapture (1 Thess. 5:23; cf. Phil. 3:21).

Who Or What Is the Hinderer of Lawlessness?

Paul definitely said that the hinderer of lawlessness would continue to hinder lawlessness "until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed," whom the Lord shall destroy at His second advent (2 Thess. 2:7-8). If the question of who or what the hinderer of lawlessness is can be settled, the time of the rapture will be automatically settled.

Three Things Hindering Lawlessness in the World Today

1. Human governments (Gen. 9:1-8; Rom 13; 1 Peter 2:14)

2. The Holy Spirit (John. 14:16;Jn 15:26;Jn 16:7-11)

3. The church (Mt. 5:13-16; 1 Cor. 12:28; Rom 12:3-8; 1 Peter 4:10-19)



In no scripture in the two books to the Thessalonians did Paul mention governments or the Holy Spirit as being taken out of the world, but he repeatedly referred to the church as being raptured out of the world and from the earth (1 Thess. 1:10;1 Thess 2:19-20; 1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Thess 5:1-11,23; 2 Thess. 2:1,7-8). We must, therefore, conclude that the church is the hinderer of lawlessness, and for the following reasons.



1. Human governments will never be taken out of the world to permit the Revelation of the Antichrist. He himself will even reign over ten kingdoms when he comes (Rev. 17:8-17). And many other governments will be here in other parts of the earth throughout all the days that the man of sin (Antichrist) will be here (Dan. 2:44-45;Dan 7:9-14; Rev. 16:13-16; Zech. 14:1-5).

2. The Holy Spirit will never be taken from the world, for Jesus promised that He would abide with us forever (John. 14:16). In Acts 2:16-21; Zech. 12:10 - Zech 13:1,Mt. 24:14; Rev. 7:14; Rev 19:10 and other scriptures we have much proof that the Holy Spirit will still be here throughout the tribulation and the reign of Antichrist. Therefore, He could not be the hinderer of lawlessness that will be taken out of the way.

3. The church will be taken out of the world by rapture, as stated in the above references. It is the only one of the above mentioned three hinderers of lawlessness that is to be taken out of the world, so it must be the hinderer of 2 Thess. 2:7-8.



That this hinderer of lawlessness will literally be taken out of the world is clear from the Greek statement, ek mesou genetai, which means, "out of the midst be gone" (2 Thess. 2:7-8). The Greek phrase ek mesou literally means "from among" and is so translated in Mt. 13:49; Acts 17:33;Acts 23:10; 1 Cor. 5:2; 2 Cor. 6:17; Col. 2:13-14; 2 Thess. 2:7. Whatever is referred to as the hinderer is being taken out of the way, not being brought into the midst of men.

Out of 25 versions examined by this author, not one reads "born out of the midst of men" as said by some who teach that instead of referring to the revelation of Antichrist, this passage (2 Thess. 2:7-8) speaks of his birth. These versions render the passage in 13 different ways, and the thought in every one is not the birth of Antichrist but rather the fact that the hinderer of lawlessness is to be literally removed from the earth, from among men, before the revelation of that Wicked one.

The renderings of these versions are: "be removed" from the midst (4 times); "be gone"-not here (once); "be gotten out of the way" (3 times); "taken from the midst" not born into the midst (once); "coming to be out of the midst" (once); "is taken out of the way" (twice); "gone from the midst" (once); "the restraining power removed" (once); "disappear from the scene" (once); "be out of the way" (once); "steps out of the way" (once); "becomes out of the way" (once); "taken out of the way" (7 times).

Even if we believed that the Holy Spirit would be taken out of the world to permit the revelation of the man of sin, we could not possibly believe that He would abandon the church (the body of Christ), leaving it in the world to go through terrible sufferings without Him. Therefore, the church would be taken out of the world with Him, and thus the rapture of the church before the tribulation is proved either way.

Men have stumbled over the use of the pronoun "he" in 2 Thess. 2:7 for a long time and a great many teachers have not been able to bring themselves to the fact that a masculine pronoun could refer to the church when it has been universally taught that the church is the bride of Christ, a woman, a lady, and a virgin. If the pronoun "she" had been used in 2 Thess. 2:7 every Bible scholar who teaches that the church is the bride of Christ would have automatically believed and taught that this "she" identified the church as the hinderer of lawlessness and would have used this as proof of the church being taken out of the world before the tribulation and Revelation of the Antichrist.

—Dake's Topics

 

[(THE)]

Chapter 4

Notes For Verse 1

a [After this]





Chart: Ten Proofs the Rapture Takes Place in Rev. Chapter 4 Verse 1

Ten Proofs the Rapture Takes Place in Rev. Chapter 4 Verse 1



Greek: meta (GSN-<G3326>) tauta (GSN-<G5023>), after these things (note a, Jn. 5:1). This Greek phrase is used at the beginning and at end of this verse thus: "After these things (after writing the things concerning the churches of Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3) I looked ... a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice ... said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be after these things," that is, after the churches (Rev. 4:1). This confirms and settles the question as to the time of the fulfillment of all the events of Rev. 4:22. They must be after these things of the churches, or after the rapture of the church. The church is no longer on earth when the events of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 take place.



1. Christ said the things of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 "must be hereafter," that is, after the churches, as proved above and also in note, Rev. 1:19. If this is true, then the church is raptured before these things of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22, and after the things of the churches of Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3. If the things which are (Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3) concern the church, then the "things which must be" after "the things which are" must concern events after the churches. The church must be here during the time of the fulfillment of the things concerning the churhes, and it must not be here during the fulfillment of the things after the churches. The church then is raptured in Rev. 4:1 between "the things which are" (Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3) and "the things which must be hereafter," that is, after the churches (Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22).



2. The word "church" is found 19 times in Rev. 1 -- Rev. 3 but not once in the third division of the book which contains "the things which must be" after the churches (Rev. 4:1 -- Rev. 22:5). The church is found again in the conclusion of the book (Rev. 22:6-21), but only after "the things which must be" are fully revealed. If the church were on earth during the fulfillment of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 it certainly would be mentioned.



3. The enthroned elders are representative of the raptured saints and they are always seen in heaven after Rev. 4:1. See note, Rev. 4:4.



4. The 70th week of Daniel will be the last seven years of this age, during which time all of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19; Mt. 24 -- Mt. 25 will be fulfilled. This week concerns Israel, not the church. Therefore, the church must be raptured before this week. See Rapture and Second Coming.



5. There is no place for the rapture of the church and the Old Testament saints other than in Rev. 4:1. The man-child and the great tribulation saints are the only ones to be saved and raptured during Daniel's 70th week, and these are distinct groups from the church and the Old Testament saints, as proved in notes on Rev. 4:4. Therefore, the church is either caught up in Rev. 4:1 -- after the churches of Rev. 2 -- Rev. 3 and before the events coming after the churches of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 22 -- or it is never mentioned in Revelation as to its rapture. If it were to be caught up anytime during this week, it surely would have been mentioned. The church could not be the man-child or the tribulation saints, as proved in notes on Rev. 7; Rev. 12; Rev. 14.



6. In Lk. 21:34-36 we have the promise of Jesus that the saved will be accounted worthy to escape all these things, and to stand before the Son of Man. The things they will escape are those of Mt. 24:4-26; Lk. 21:4-19 and Rev. 6 -- Rev. 19.



7. In 1Th. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that saints will escape the wrath of God (of Rev. 6-19). God has not appointed us to this wrath, but to obtain deliverance through Jesus Christ so we can live with Christ (1Th. 5:9-11). How could saints comfort one another (as stated in this scripture and in 1Th. 4:16-17; Tit. 2:13) if the only hope they had was the coming wrath of God in the future tribulation?



8. In 2Th. 2:6-8 it is definitely shown that the rapture takes place before the revelation of the Antichrist and before the 70th week of Daniel. The events of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19 will take place during this week, so the rapture must take place in Rev. 4:1.



9. There is a marked change in God's attitude toward humanity in general, from that of mercy (Rev. 1 -- Rev. 3) to that of judgment (Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19). The seals, trumpets, and vials all picture judgment throughout Daniel's 70th week. If the church does not go through any of these things, as proved already, then the rapture must take place in Rev. 4:1.



10. An individual or a body of individuals can be identified by peculiarities and characteristics. If the church is to be on earth and is the subject of Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19 , then its earmarks should be seen. But such are not to be found. On the other hand, earmarks of Israel are seen throughout the book after Rev. 4:1. The earmarks of the church are seen up to this point only. This proves that two different institutions are dealt with in different parts of the book: first, the church until its rapture in Rev. 4:1; second, Israel after the rapture of the church to the second coming of Christ (Rev. 4 -- Rev. 19).

—Dake's Study Notes

What are you going to do if I ask a question,,,that you cannot asnwer by simply copying and pasting Care to give it a shot???????????

 

[XTruth]

What are you going to do if I ask a question,,,that you cannot asnwer by simply copying and pasting Care to give it a shot???????????

I'm posting to give truth, not to receive glory... doesn't matter if I wrote it or not when it is my belief as well. Care to show a certain amount of respect to posters? Don't talk to people like that who have not personally attacked you.

 

[(THE)]

I'm posting to give truth, not to receive glory... doesn't matter if I wrote it or not when it is my belief as well. Care to show a certain amount of respect to posters? Don't talk to people like that who have not personally attacked you.

NOthing in my words have indicated you are glory seeking.......I dont think anyone minds you using sources,,,,I surely dont mind......

Respect????

Im not disrespected you,,,and im not talking to you sideways,,,,im asking a question,,,,,,and the the question is can ask you some things????????? and the questions I ask you,,,,you will not find it in this commentary.....

Anyhow,,,if your hear to spread truth,,,then spread,,,,all true christians seek truth.........

But I can tell you straight up,,,there is no rapture,,,,,and there is not one verse in the whole bible that indicates there is,,,,,actually in short,,,,the whole point of christians living in the end days,,is to face satan,,,not run............

Again Im not thrashing you,,,,,I dont even know you,,,,but this doctrine can get it......

SO I ask,,,,Will this rapture happen before the antichrist arrives or after????????????

 

[Cornelius]

I use to love Dakes and I have a Dakes Bible , until I realized he only saw the letter of the Word. But its still a good reference work if you want to look up a subject.

Here is the Bible version of the rapture/resurrection timing :

Mat 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We shall go into tribulation:

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.
Joh 16:33 These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye may have peace. In the world ye have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


But we are not going into the Wrath which follows the Tribulation:

1Th 5:9 For God appointed us not into wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,



So we will go into the tribulation and be hated by all nations. We can see how the USA at this very moment is starting to lead the world in the "its not PC to be a Christian" attitude. Everybody is correct except Christians. Then , after the tribulation, God will resurrect the dead and take those who are still alive at the coming of the Lord and change them in a twinkling of an eye(Some call this rapture, but that word is not in the Bible)
Then He brings His wrath against the whole unsaved world which are now on their own, left behind. He destroys this earth , before starting the new one.

 

[(THE)]

The rapture gives the notion we will be taken,,,,,but this is false,,,,,,Christ returns to earth......The elects are gathered toghether from the earth.......We are not going anywhere nor or we being taken anywhere.......The very idea of a rapture is sick.......

 

[Cornelius]

What people call "rapture" is actually the whole event that includes the resurrection .Some Christians will be alive at that moment of the resurrection and God will have to change them as they stand in a twinkling of an eye.1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is the "rapture"

 

[(THE)]

What people call "rapture" is actually the whole event that includes the resurrection .Some Christians will be alive at that moment of the resurrection and God will have to change them as they stand in a twinkling of an eye.1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is the "rapture"

Alright C il give ya that,,,but you know my age group as been taught the rapture is ,,,,,,well,,,not what you just said,,,,,most people I know think the rapture is just God taking people of the earth to protect them from a bunch of bad stuff........

 

[Cornelius]

)

Alright C il give ya that,,,but you know my age group as been taught the rapture is ,,,,,,well,,,not what you just said,,,,,most people I know think the rapture is just God taking people of the earth to protect them from a bunch of bad stuff........

LOL my "age group" too. I am 53 so I have been there , done that too. But God has revealed the truth to those who are willing to just simply look at the Word. There is no "rapture" as taught traditionally. A "rapture" as taught is SO against the nature of God Who ALWAYS have taken His people into captivity and then showed them that He is indeed able to save them (after they repented) from the beast kingdom.

Always, always , always. Its very clear throughout the "types and shadows" in the Old Testament, that this is the way God uses the Beast kingdoms: to purify His people.

Lets face it: Any sane Christians will know that the church today needs purification. We are rotten to the core with false doctrines and evil teachings of men. We are proud. We sell the gospel for money. We have chucked out the five fold ministry. We deny miracles and healing. We deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit. We preach a powerless jesus.We preach the "other Jesus" the "other gospel" that Paul warns us about and we do not realize he was speaking about us .

God knows the only way to get us to run to the truth again, is to place us in a terrible tribulation where we have no hope ,other than Him, to be saved from. Something so terrible is coming our way and the other gospel people are saying :Oh no never.God loves us. He will never allow hardship like that to happen to His beloved.

Yea, tell that to the rest of the world where it is already happening.

Soon, VERY soon, we are going to go into the tribulation and when there is no "rapture" millions of Christians are going to either deny the tribulation or loose their faith, because this false doctrine did not happen to them.

Scary times are here and most of us do not even know the real gospel yet, that is able to save us in and through anything.

Just imagine if indeed a time comes upon us where we have no medical help. Look at Haiti at this moment ! NO HELP. In the first day, there was not even one ambulance to be seen anywhere.No professional assistance.Those who have the powerless gospel.................die.