The Prize

[wayseer]

We are speaking here of 1 Cor 9:24. Salvation is based on works....how do you obtain salvation without doing anything.

We can't. There is nothing - nothing - we can do to gain God's mercy. Why - because it is a gift freely offered by the creator to the created. We can do nothing but accept that gift without thinking of some trade-off.

Grace is a gift that was given to all men by God. Grace and peace sum up all the blessings in Christ, the wealth of God's gracious giving, the results of man's full acceptance. Grace will not save you but obedience will.

If Grace cannot save us then nothing will.

The whole story of Jesus was to finish the whole sacrificial system once and for all. The system was open to abuse and corruption. Jesus circumvented the system by making a sacrifice 'sufficient' for all, forever. 'It is finished' - so stop trying to bring it back.

Without doubt, obedience is the steppingstone to righteousness; disobedience, to unrighteousness. To obey Jesus Christ, the Lord, is to be his servants. If we obey him, by the obedience to him we come to the state of righteousness into life.

If that is your calling then that is what you must do. Myself, I have not been called to follow 'righteousness' - whatever they may mean. But none of this has anything to do with Grace.

 

[BornAgain]

We can't. There is nothing - nothing - we can do to gain God's mercy. Why - because it is a gift freely offered by the creator to the created. We can do nothing but accept that gift without thinking of some trade-off.



If Grace cannot save us then nothing will.

The whole story of Jesus was to finish the whole sacrificial system once and for all. The system was open to abuse and corruption. Jesus circumvented the system by making a sacrifice 'sufficient' for all, forever. 'It is finished' - so stop trying to bring it back.



If that is your calling then that is what you must do. Myself, I have not been called to follow 'righteousness' - whatever they may mean. But none of this has anything to do with Grace.

Grace is a gift but alone will not save us. Please read my previous post....#18.

 

[John 8:32]

I think what Paul is alluding to is something like a doing PB - you are 'running' against yourself. The 'prize' is that you beat yourself in being more Christ like.

So to gain the prize, all I have to do is be better than myself? ???

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I think what Paul is alluding to is something like a doing PB - you are 'running' against yourself. The 'prize' is that you beat yourself in being more Christ like.

Paul said the purpose of the running is to obtain, obtain the prize (incorruptible crown/eternal life)..."Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] (run) to obtain a corruptible crown; but we (run to obtain) an incorruptible. "

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

1 Corinthians 9:24 (KJV)
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

Paul refers to his own conduct as an illustration of the lesson which he is teaching, and reminds the us that the chapter has been a vindication of his own self-denial, and that he has a clear and definite object in view.

No man can run as Paul did who has no definite object to be gained. We must be resolved to win and have no thought of defeat, of failure, or of doing something better. It is the absence of deliberate choice and a strong determination which causes such uncertain running on the part of many who claim to be in the race.

It is possible for every one who runs the Christian race to receive this crown, which shall forever be unto him a joy as at the moment of receiving it.

...and the work of running is required to receive/obtain the prize/the incorruptible crown/eternal life.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

to get to the prize. we must follow the instructions of Hebrews 12:1-3

Paul said to run to obtain so the prize can never be obtained without running.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It does say in Ephesians 2.9, 'not of works'. The previous verse says salvation is 'by grace'.

"Not of works" of Eph 2:9 referes to works of merit and not the work of obediently running for Paul said to run to obtain. So the prize cannot be obtained without the required obedient running. So running is a work but it does not earn the prize for the prize is free. But the running is a conditional work that is required to receive the free prize.

 

[for_his_glory]

It amazes me how many think they have to work to get something that is already free to them.

We now have an intercessor (Jesus) who sits at the right hand of the Father and hears our confession that we are sinners and need his salvation as we believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word that we can indeed become righteous again not of our own righteousness, but that righteousness that is God whom through his Spirit is promised to dwell in us. All we have to do is believe and confess that we are sinners and allow Gods righteousness to cleanse us and renew our spirit man. Jesus wants us to come as we are and allow him to make the changes that need made in our hearts. People want to clean the fish before they catch them, but Jesus says come as you are I will clean you from the inside out.

John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
the Father, but by me.

Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is not by our works or good deeds that save us for if that was all it would take then Gods word would be made void in our lives and Jesus would have died in vain, but because we are all sinners, it is by Gods grace and mercy that forgives our sins and washes us clean by the atoning blood of the Lamb (Jesus) so we can be made renewed again and free from our old sin nature.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[farouk]

It amazes me how many think they have to work to get something that is already free to them.

We now have an intercessor (Jesus) who sits at the right hand of the Father and hears our confession that we are sinners and need his salvation as we believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word that we can indeed become righteous again not of our own righteousness, but that righteousness that is God whom through his Spirit is promised to dwell in us. All we have to do is believe and confess that we are sinners and allow Gods righteousness to cleanse us and renew our spirit man. Jesus wants us to come as we are and allow him to make the changes that need made in our hearts. People want to clean the fish before they catch them, but Jesus says come as you are I will clean you from the inside out.

John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
the Father, but by me.

Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is not by our works or good deeds that save us for if that was all it would take then Gods word would be made void in our lives and Jesus would have died in vain, but because we are all sinners, it is by Gods grace and mercy that forgives our sins and washes us clean by the atoning blood of the Lamb (Jesus) so we can be made renewed again and free from our old sin nature.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

for His glory:

Amen.

Good post.

This would be my general understanding, also, of what is Biblical.

What I would add also is that the justification of which Romans speaks is a case of reckoning: by faith the believer is reckoned to be righteous in His sight, through faith in Christ (and not only infused with a righteousness which might help us to attain some higher standard, supposedly).

 

[John 8:32]

"Not of works" of Eph 2:9 referes to works of merit and not the work of obediently running for Paul said to run to obtain. So the prize cannot be obtained without the required obedient running. So running is a work but it does not earn the prize for the prize is free. But the running is a conditional work that is required to receive the free prize.

Back to the $M on the table, some get it, some don't.

 

[wayseer]

Grace is a gift but alone will not save us. Please read my previous post....#18.

Read #18.

All I can say is that the reason for the incarnation was that the system of worshiping God was not working the way it should. God became man that we might become more like God (Athanasius).

There is nothing we could do. If there had been something we could have done to effect our salvation the sacrificial system would have been sufficient and not have needed to be superseded by Jesus. God recognized that we could not 'save' ourselves no matter how hard we tried.

So it is God gracious gift of his son which tipped the scales in our favour - and neither you nor I had anything to do with that - it was God's decision - alone.

All we have to do is accept it - which is perhaps harder than sacrificing bulls and goats.

 

[wayseer]

So to gain the prize, all I have to do is be better than myself? ???

Keep going ... that's Paul's message.

 

[wayseer]

Paul said the purpose of the running is to obtain, obtain the prize (incorruptible crown/eternal life)..."Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] (run) to obtain a corruptible crown; but we (run to obtain) an incorruptible. "

As far as I know Paul never did any running. Walked a lot - but no running. Don't confuse the metaphor.

 

[farouk]

...God, in time, became incarnate, to redeem sinners for eternity.

 

[BornAgain]

Read #18.

All I can say is that the reason for the incarnation was that the system of worshiping God was not working the way it should. God became man that we might become more like God (Athanasius).

There is nothing we could do. If there had been something we could have done to effect our salvation the sacrificial system would have been sufficient and not have needed to be superseded by Jesus. God recognized that we could not 'save' ourselves no matter how hard we tried.

So it is God gracious gift of his son which tipped the scales in our favour - and neither you nor I had anything to do with that - it was God's decision - alone.

All we have to do is accept it - which is perhaps harder than sacrificing bulls and goats.

I am not sure of the point here and am not familiar with Athanasius...maybe somebody that has more knowledge than me can reply to your post. Sorry...

 

[ezra]

Originally Posted by BornAgain
Grace is a gift but alone will not save us. Please read my previous post....#18.

Grace will save us if we accept it by faith. GRACE is what Jesus did for us. Faith is the key to Grace

 

[BornAgain]

Grace will save us if we accept it by faith. GRACE is what Jesus did for us. Faith is the key to Grace

If all we have to do is accept God's gift of grace through faith, then please explain what Jesus said in John:

John 3:5-6 (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

What, then, is meant by being born of water and the Spirit? To enter the kingdom is to be saved. Col 1:13-14.

 

[wayseer]

I am not sure of the point here and am not familiar with Athanasius...maybe somebody that has more knowledge than me can reply to your post. Sorry...

It is probably my fault that I can't explain it better than what I have attempted.

Forget Athanasius for the moment.

But let's go back to the Temple system of sacrifice. The whole system set up by Moses was to allow Israel access to God. But being 'impure' one could not have access to that which was 'pure' - God. So the idea of sacrifice was instigated whereby one offered to sacrifice bulls and goats, (pigeons for us poor people) rather than sacrificing sons and daughters as did the surrounding pagan nations. But over time it was apparent that the Temple system of worship was failing. Some indication of the corruption that taken hold is illustrated by Jesus taking a whip to the merchants inside the Temple precinct.

To overcome the corruption while keeping the system in tack required a sacrifice once and for all sufficient to do the job of making 'pure' that which is impure. Thus Jesus' death.

We - us humans - had nothing to do with that decision. We tried and we failed. Our 'works' of sacrifice had failed - we could not gain access to God through the attempts of making ourselves 'pure'. All had ended in corruption as the system became little more than robbery by another name. It was the elites that benefited. There was no redistribution of the tithes and sacrifices made to alleviate the poor. The system was about as unGodly as it could get.

There is nothing - nothing - we can do to save ourselves.

 

[rrowell]

It amazes me how many think they have to work to get something that is already free to them.

And it amazes me how many think that because it is free, means they just get it when in fact they refuse to accept THE FACT that they did have to do something to in fact get it... there is an undeniable even logical fact that there is reciprocation involved with every "gift", I can offer you a gift till the end of days, but you must accept "receive" the gift... "receive" is the reciprocal of "give" one can give NOTHING if another one will not receive it.

Just the fact of accepting it is in fact a work! (righteous or not)

We now have an intercessor (Jesus) who sits at the right hand of the Father and hears our confession that we are sinners and need his salvation as we believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word that we can indeed become righteous again not of our own righteousness, but that righteousness that is God whom through his Spirit is promised to dwell in us.

I have put emphasis on your quote that include righteous work, by your confession and repenting (both works) that we have sinned. And again "believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word" is again something you must do (a work) if you do not do it (believe) then you reject the "gift" (grace) given to you!, then you say "we can indeed become righteous again" and how is that? righteous work, like that of Abraham, working (running in the race) to "receive" the crown!

All we have to do <--(to the left is work, to the right is the work to be done)--> is believe and confess that we are sinners and allow Gods righteousness to cleanse us and renew our spirit man. Jesus wants us to come <--(we have to do something "come" a work) as we are and allow him to make the changes that need made in our hearts.<--(he will do as you say but on condition of the work) People want to clean the fish before they catch them, but Jesus says come as you are I will clean you from the inside out.

I have annotated your quote above (emphasis mine) where you yourself have described the righteous work that Ernest T. Bass has been talking about for months. it is those that think "faith only saves" are the ones that clean the fish before they are caught.

John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved.

"if any man enter in", he must make a choice (a work)

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
the Father, but by me.

Again Jesus states a condition "I am the way", only obedience to him is the way, no other way accept by him! (we must do ALL he commands to go through him)

Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice the "shall" (conditional) before you get to the "shall" (conditional) be saved

 

[rrowell]

It is probably my fault that I can't explain it better than what I have attempted.

Forget Athanasius for the moment.

A pope has nothing to do with any of it anyway.

But let's go back to the Temple system of sacrifice. The whole system set up by Moses was to allow Israel access to God. But being 'impure' one could not have access to that which was 'pure' - God. So the idea of sacrifice was instigated whereby one offered to sacrifice bulls and goats, (pigeons for us poor people) rather than sacrificing sons and daughters as did the surrounding pagan nations. But over time it was apparent that the Temple system of worship was failing. Some indication of the corruption that taken hold is illustrated by Jesus taking a whip to the merchants inside the Temple precinct.

To overcome the corruption while keeping the system in tack required a sacrifice once and for all sufficient to do the job of making 'pure' that which is impure. Thus Jesus' death.

The system as you call it was set up before the Mosaic law, you seem to state God had a change of mind because of the action of man when the Messiah was prophesied prior to the Mosaic law.

You see the problem with your analogy?

We - us humans - had nothing to do with that decision. We tried and we failed. Our 'works' of sacrifice had failed - we could not gain access to God through the attempts of making ourselves 'pure'. All had ended in corruption as the system became little more than robbery by another name. It was the elites that benefited. There was no redistribution of the tithes and sacrifices made to alleviate the poor. The system was about as unGodly as it could get.

Humans have never had anything to do with Gods plan, God did not change, man did. if the system was as you put it "unGodly" it was made that way by the continual disobedient human and it still goes on today even with the perfect sacrifice.

There is nothing - nothing - we can do to save ourselves.

We are lost without Christ, we were given a gift (by his Grace) but the "Grace" is not the gift, the gift is a way for man to "realign himself" <-- see the "must do" part?

If you run the race to salvation you can win the crown, but if you don't get in the race, you can't win.