The Prize

[Ernest T. Bass]

I have seen Ernest T. Bass and you go over this again and again, you simply put the cart before the horse... completely ignore the "through faith", the word "through" by implication says something must be done... if you have faith and not do his commands your faith is in vain, if you have not done and do not do his commands you cannot have faith, does not matter which way you look at it there is work involved.

God GIVES salvation to ALL THAT OBEY Him, he does NOT give you salvation and expect you then to OBEY HIM. it is a conditional gift not of merit but of worthiness... if your not worthy FIRST, you DON'T GET IT...

You constantly and consistently put the cart before the horse!

Hi,

Let me add that the verse says "through faith in His blood" and not "through faith only in His blood". Martin Luther added the word "only" in his translation. Adding to God's word was the only way he could get it teach faith only. There is a black and white, nite and day difference between "faith in His blood" and "faith only in His blood".

 

[rrowell]

Hi,

Let me add that the verse says "through faith in His blood" and not "through faith only in His blood". Martin Luther added the word "only" in his translation. Adding to God's word was the only way he could get it teach faith only. There is a black and white, nite and day difference between "faith in His blood" and "faith only in His blood".

AMEN!

If people would only understand that "faith" and "love" is not just a mind thing they would understand it, it comes from miss understanding what is the meaning of "faith" and "love"

with every "AMEN" we have a show of faith "let it be so" we cannot have faith in someone we do not "love":

John 14:15 (KJV)
15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Here is a list I found of all the things the bible says saves.

God's grace (Ephesians 2:4-10; 1:7; Titus 2:11,12; Acts 15:11)
Jesus' death and resurrection (Ephesians 1:7; Romans 5:6-10; 1 Peter 1:18,19; Revelation 1:5;1 Corinthians 15:17; 1 Peter 3:21)
The gospel (Romans 1:16; 1 Peter 1:23-25; Acts 11:14; James 1:18,21; 1 Corinthians 15:1,2; John 8:31,32)
Learning God's will (Acts 11:14; John 6:44,45; Romans 10:17; 1:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21)
Faith (see the verses listed above)
Love (1 Corinthians 16:22; 13:1-3; Galatians 5:6; 1 John 4:7,8)
Hope (Romans 8:24)
Repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30; Luke 13:3,5; 2 Peter 3:9)
Obedience (Hebrews 5:9; Romans 6:17,18; 1 Peter 1:22; Acts 10:34,35; 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9; Galatians 5:6; James 2:14-26)
Confession of Christ (Romans 10:9,10; Matthew 10:32)
Baptism (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Romans 6:3-7; Galatians 3:26,27; Colossians 2:12,13)
Faithfulness (Matthew 10:22; Revelation 2:10; 1 Corinthians 15:58; Matthew 28:20; Titus 2:11,12; 1 John 2:1-6)
Church membership (Acts 2:47; 20:28; Ephesians 5:23,25)


To say "faith only" saves is ignoring the bible when it say all these other things save for they contribute as much to being saved as faith does. Obviously faith is part of what saves but far from the only thing that saves. From this thread faith must include running to obtain the prize.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have seen Ernest T. Bass and you go over this again and again, you simply put the cart before the horse... completely ignore the "through faith", the word "through" by implication says something must be done...

What comes 'through' your faith is God's grace. The conduit through which righteousness is bestowed is your faith in God's forgiveness.

It only makes sense: You are made righteous by having your your unrighteousness removed, not by adding an abundance of righteous work to your unrighteous work. That is what it means for it to be impossible to atone for sin through works and then somehow win the prize of salvation. That is what the false religions of the world believe...that your good works outweigh your bad works and on that basis you are saved. That is the damnable 'gospel' that crept into the church that Paul assailed and warned the church not to fall back into and away from Christ's righteousness.

Justification is a free gift. It comes through the 'work' of faith in Christ's blood. How we accept it is by believing (trusting) in Christ's blood to make us righteous and prepared for the Day of Wrath. To depend on our own righteous work (outside of faith in Christ--which is in itself given to us by God) is to do exactly what the blood of Christ was sent to do--save us from the impossible effort of saving ourselves through righteous works.

if you have faith and not do his commands your faith is in vain, if you have not done and do not do his commands you cannot have faith, does not matter which way you look at it there is work involved.

That is what James says. If you don't have works attached to your declaration of faith in Christ...ultimately, you don't really have faith in Christ, the faith that saves. He says that. He said he will show you his faith, the faith that saves, by what he does. So should we. Or be found to have a faith that can not validate itself through what it does as able to save.

God GIVES salvation to ALL THAT OBEY Him...

Right, because the faith that justifies, apart from righteous works is evidenced by the righteous things it does. Those who don't obey him don't have the faith that makes a person righteous and qualified for salvation.

he does NOT give you salvation and expect you then to OBEY HIM. it is a conditional gift not of merit but of worthiness... if your not worthy FIRST, you DON'T GET IT...

You have just defined the damnable works gospel that Paul warned the church about. If you think you do good to merit salvation you are trusting in the wrong thing and will be lost on the Day of Wrath. Christ will be of no use to you. I didn't say it. Paul did.

You constantly and consistently put the cart before the horse!

[/quote]
Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6). The power of faith comes first. Faith to put your trust in Christ's blood and then be saved by that faith. And then to live for him through that same faith. We KNOW who has this saving faith by what they do.

 

[rrowell]

What comes 'through' your faith is God's grace. The conduit through which righteousness is bestowed is your faith in God's forgiveness.

JB,

Just look close at the following verses:

Romans 1:16-17 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. <-- the faith here is clearly described as the "Gospel of Christ"

The faith, the righteousness of God is found in the gospel of Christ (have to seek it, believe it, and obey it), once you have, like the Greek Olympian that every game strives for the prize, the Christian strives to keep it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JB,

Just look close at the following verses:

Romans 1:16-17 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. <-- the faith here is clearly described as the "Gospel of Christ"

The faith, the righteousness of God is found in the gospel of Christ (have to seek it, believe it, and obey it), once you have, like the Greek Olympian that every game strives for the prize, the Christian strives to keep it.

How do these passage show that faith is not the conduit through which we lay hold of the grace of God given to us in the gospel of Christ? That gospel being the good news that what could not be forgiven under the law is now forgiven in Jesus Christ (Acts 13:39 thereabouts).

 

[rrowell]

How do these passage show that faith is not the conduit through which we lay hold of the grace of God given to us in the gospel of Christ? That gospel being the good news that what could not be forgiven under the law is now forgiven in Jesus Christ (Acts 13:39 thereabouts).

These passages say the Gospel is the conduit, your standing on one side of it, salvation is on the other, and in it is "faith and obedience" which means "through faith and obedience of all it commands" you get the prize.

 

[for_his_glory]

And it amazes me how many think that because it is free, means they just get it when in fact they refuse to accept THE FACT that they did have to do something to in fact get it... there is an undeniable even logical fact that there is reciprocation involved with every "gift", I can offer you a gift till the end of days, but you must accept "receive" the gift... "receive" is the reciprocal of "give" one can give NOTHING if another one will not receive it.

Just the fact of accepting it is in fact a work! (righteous or not)

I have put emphasis on your quote that include righteous work, by your confession and repenting (both works) that we have sinned. And again "believe in our heart that he was truly sent from God as the living word" is again something you must do (a work) if you do not do it (believe) then you reject the "gift" (grace) given to you!, then you say "we can indeed become righteous again" and how is that? righteous work, like that of Abraham, working (running in the race) to "receive" the crown!

I have annotated your quote above (emphasis mine) where you yourself have described the righteous work that Ernest T. Bass has been talking about for months. it is those that think "faith only saves" are the ones that clean the fish before they are caught.


"if any man enter in", he must make a choice (a work)

Again Jesus states a condition "I am the way", only obedience to him is the way, no other way accept by him! (we must do ALL he commands to go through him)

Notice the "shall" (conditional) before you get to the "shall" (conditional) be saved

If, and, but are conjunction words not work words as in: if you believe in Jesus (no works), and make confession with your mouth (no works other then speaking from your heart), but if you do not (consequential actions not work). Conditional is not works, but only belief through that of faith which is Christ for an example. Look up the word condition in any dictionary and you will not find it as being any work. Now look up the word work as it is the action or labor required to accomplish something, something requiring physical or mental effort. Is the condition of my heart that of works to accomplish something as I can not accomplish Salvation apart from the grace God gives freely nor can I require something that is already freely given, but only to accept it in all thankfulness for which the gift was given.

 

[rrowell]

If, and, but are conjunction words not work words as in: if you believe in Jesus (no works), and make confession with your mouth (no works other then speaking from your heart), but if you do not (consequential actions not work). Conditional is not works, but only belief through that of faith which is Christ for an example. Look up the word condition in any dictionary and you will not find it as being any work. Now look up the word work as it is the action or labor required to accomplish something, something requiring physical or mental effort. Is the condition of my heart that of works to accomplish something as I can not accomplish Salvation apart from the grace God gives freely nor can I require something that is already freely given, but only to accept it in all thankfulness for which the gift was given.

"if" is conditional, "and" is conjunctive (meaning two or more things are true) "action" is a work, here is an example:

Your driving down the road, there is a fork in the road, the prize is to the right, dead end to the left and you know it, now you must turn one way or the other (conditional) the "action" (works) you take will determine your consequence.

If you try the experiment and rely on your belief only system, I am afraid ill have to call you a tow truck

 

[for_his_glory]

The free prize is not given randomly or unconditonally. One must meet the condition of running to receive the free prize. It seems you are suggesting everyone will receive the prize whether they run or not. In Jn 6:27 Jesus Himself said to work for the meat that endures unto everlasting life which the Son of man shall give. Jesus GIVES eternal life so it has been offered for free but one must meet the condition of working/believing to receive the free gift. Those that do not do the conditional work of believing will not receive the free gift. To say one does not have to conditionally do the work of running to receive the prize is the same as saying one does not have to conditionally do the work of believing to receive everlasting life.

John 6:
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

You have to put vs. 26 and 27 together to see Jesus is telling them that it is His word that we continue in as the works Jesus did we also are to continue in as we are sealed by Gods Spirit and it is by His Spirit that works in us and through us that we share in the works of Christ as laborers in the field. Other words Jesus was saying not to labor, or work, for those things that are temporal (earthly), but for those things which are from up above where God sits. Verse 26 meat means material things, vs 27 meat means the deeper word of God that is everlasting.

Is Gods love towards us conditional or is it unconditional that Christ took every persons sin upon himself so all can be made righteous by that righteousness that is God that if we confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the grave we can be saved by His grace through the blood of Christ as even yet while we were yet sinners Christ died for us that we are now justified through the blood of Christ that all who will call upon His name can be saved. Call is not a work, but an action to act upon that which one is being called to.

 

[ezra]

One must meet the condition of running to receive the free prize.

what kind of condition ? please post what these conditions are back by scripture

 

[for_his_glory]

"if" is conditional, "and" is conjunctive (meaning two or more things are true) "action" is a work, here is an example:

Your driving down the road, there is a fork in the road, the prize is to the right, dead end to the left and you know it, now you must turn one way or the other (conditional) the "action" (works) you take will determine your consequence.

If you try the experiment and rely on your belief only system, I am afraid ill have to call you a tow truck

It's not by any work that I choose to take the right path, but of choosing which path takes me to the prize by reading the sign by which path I need to choose. It's like the word of God for Salvation that we have to first believe through faith by that which we can not see or touch with our own five senses to accept that which is Gods grace as none of us being a sinner is worthy of it, but it is freely given to anyone who chooses to accept it. Then when we accept it then we learn what is to be expected of us as far as learning that which is the mind of Christ and pick up our cross and follow him as we continue in the works of the Lord as laborers of the harvest.

 

[rrowell]

It's not by any work that I choose to take the right path, but of choosing which path takes me to the prize by reading the sign by which path I need to choose.

You have a man made doctrine that teaches you that "It's not by any work", yet God teaches through Paul "faith is work"


1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV)
3. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Man made doctrine has Paul saying "not any works" when the "works" he is talking of is the Mosaic Law in Eph. 2:8-9, the very people he was speaking these words to were going by the Jewish Law and not the Law of Christ, he is NOT saying "any works" he is saying "Jewish Law".

If Paul was saying "not any works" then we have a contradiction with the Apostle James. Now we know the Bible does not contradict its self, so we must have more than one kind of works, the works that was being done by those he was talking to (Jewish Law) and works of faith and labor of love (the works James talks about)

It's like the word of God for Salvation that we have to first believe through faith by that which we can not see or touch with our own five senses to accept that which is Gods grace

Again, man made doctrine has "faith" and "believe" to be some thing that just happens when in fact you must do something to have them 1 Thessalonians 1:3 I quoted above clearly shows "faith" a work as well as love.

as none of us being a sinner is worthy of it, but it is freely given to anyone who chooses to accept it.

"chooses to accept it", you just did a righteous work and man made doctrine has you believing you have not.

Then when we accept it then we learn what is to be expected of us as far as learning that which is the mind of Christ and pick up our cross and follow him as we continue in the works of the Lord as laborers of the harvest.

Now you just added the "without ceasing" to "your work of faith" in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, keep that up and you get the Prize.

 

[for_his_glory]

You have a man made doctrine that teaches you that "It's not by any work", yet God teaches through Paul "faith is work"


1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV)
3. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Man made doctrine has Paul saying "not any works" when the "works" he is talking of is the Mosaic Law in Eph. 2:8-9, the very people he was speaking these words to were going by the Jewish Law and not the Law of Christ, he is NOT saying "any works" he is saying "Jewish Law".

If Paul was saying "not any works" then we have a contradiction with the Apostle James. Now we know the Bible does not contradict its self, so we must have more than one kind of works, the works that was being done by those he was talking to (Jewish Law) and works of faith and labor of love (the works James talks about)

Again, man made doctrine has "faith" and "believe" to be some thing that just happens when in fact you must do something to have them 1 Thessalonians 1:3 I quoted above clearly shows "faith" a work as well as love.



"chooses to accept it", you just did a righteous work and man made doctrine has you believing you have not.

Now you just added the "without ceasing" to "your work of faith" in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, keep that up and you get the Prize.

I'm not into man made doctrines and for that reason I do not attend any Church or listen to teachings of others without Spiritual discernment as the only doctrine I need is that of Christ Jesus and His untwisted word. I do although share in fellowship with my friends as we study the Bible together allowing the Holy Spirit reveal its truth for us to grow by. I can say my mind is at work in those things I believe as it is a work to actually open my Bible and read it, but the understanding comes freely from the Holy Spirit if I am listening and trust that which he gives me as I am reading. You can not earn grace nor Salvation as it only comes by believing first and I see no work in believing, only acceptance of that which we have very little knowledge of and then the works come as we study the scriptures to know the mind of Christ and what God expects of us. Our works are that of what Christ left for us to continue in as we run the race to obtain those crowns to lay before the feet of Christ when we stand before Him during His judgement of those things we said and did at that time he will separate the sheep from the goats and our reward/prize will be that of eternal life with Him.

 

[rrowell]

I'm not into man made doctrines and for that reason I do not attend any Church or listen to teachings of others without Spiritual discernment as the only doctrine I need is that of Christ Jesus and His untwisted word. I do although share in fellowship with my friends as we study the Bible together allowing the Holy Spirit reveal its truth for us to grow by. I can say my mind is at work in those things I believe as it is a work to actually open my Bible and read it, but the understanding comes freely from the Holy Spirit if I am listening and trust that which he gives me as I am reading. You can not earn grace nor Salvation as it only comes by believing first and I see no work in believing, only acceptance of that which we have very little knowledge of and then the works come as we study the scriptures to know the mind of Christ and what God expects of us. Our works are that of what Christ left for us to continue in as we run the race to obtain those crowns to lay before the feet of Christ when we stand before Him during His judgement of those things we said and did at that time he will separate the sheep from the goats and our reward/prize will be that of eternal life with Him.

You are doing the right thing by using only the Bible to find your way, many churches today have creeds and higher authorities (governing bodies) that dictate how they should understand the bible.

All required scripture needed to find salvation is only complex when this man made doctrine is put in place, God made it so even a child can understand it as Paul tells Timothy here:

2 Timothy 3:14-15 (KJV)
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Are there still hard verses and mystery? absolutely... I believe it is there purposely to give every man a book that will never become boring and forever interesting. but none of that is worth division in the Church, as long as "What must we do" is understood there is hope for all.

There is no age limit set as to when one is held accountable, it is when one knows the truth that the age of accountability kicks in, you first have to "hear" the Gospel, until you do you have nothing to believe, this may or should come from someone that has obeyed and by righteous works sheds this light on you.

Someone teaching you the Gospel is a righteous work, you hearing "learning" is a righteous work, then you obeying once you hear is a righteous work, then the cycle starts again, this is how He wants the kingdom to grow since the Apostles were commissioned (The Christian Dispensation does require works, the works James speaks of).

In the time of Paul he was dealing with those who tried to continue with the Mosaic Dispensation or mixing of the two and rebuked them for them keeping all or parts of the "works" of the Mosaic Dispensation.

If you keep using your Bible, doctrine of Christ ONLY and not man made doctrine you with the Guidance of the Holy Spirit will win the Prize!

 

[elijah23]

Phil 3:13-14 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

1 Cor 9:24-25 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. "


Is "the prize" something earned or merited by reaching, pressing, running or is the prize freely offered, freely received?

At some point, we need to accept responsibility for what we are doing. Jesus forgives us for our sins, but he expects us to learn from our mistakes and will discipline us if we don't.

Andy Taylor, sheriff of Mayberry, North Carolina, still hasn't thrown you in prison, Ernest T. Bass?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

At some point, we need to accept responsibility for what we are doing. Jesus forgives us for our sins, but he expects us to learn from our mistakes and will discipline us if we don't.

Andy Taylor, sheriff of Mayberry, North Carolina, still hasn't thrown you in prison, Ernest T. Bass?

The Mayberry jail cannot hold Ernest T.

 

[Adullam]

Phil 3:13-14 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

1 Cor 9:24-25 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. "


Is "the prize" something earned or merited by reaching, pressing, running or is the prize freely offered, freely received?

It is both. God grants us faith but we must learn faithfulness. Both are required to inherit the promises. So what God has begun in us..we must stand fast in.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It is both. God grants us faith but we must learn faithfulness. Both are required to inherit the promises. So what God has begun in us..we must stand fast in.

You answer "it is both". So you think the prize is something that is earned/merited?

 

[Adullam]

You answer "it is both". So you think the prize is something that is earned/merited?

We are equipped to overcome....but it remains our choices that keep us in the race. So I would say partly...YES...there is merit to putting oneself in a vulnerable place that requires faith.

Jesus said...if we do what the heathen do....what merit is there for us?

This does not take away from the Lord who calls us and visits and equips us. But what will we do with what the Lord has given to us? There are rewards in the kingdom. Those who remain faithful and patient will merit more than those who fold up when things get difficult.