The Rapture and the Law

[hawkman]

I want the white robe.

I thought of a song .

We shall wear a robe and crown

Watching, therefore, you know not the day
When the Lord shall call your soul away
If you're fighting, striving for the right
You shall wear a robe and crown

Watching, therefore, you know not the day
When the Lord shall call your soul away
If you're fighting, striving for the right
You shall wear a robe and crown

I'm gonna wear a crown (I'm gonna wear a crown)
I'm gonna wear a crown (I'm gonna wear a crown)
When the trumpet sounds (When that trumpet sounds)
When the trumpet sounds (When the trumpet sounds)
(I'm gonna wear a crown)
I'm gonna wear a crown (I'm gonna wear a crown)

 

[JLB]

stand in the holy place" (Mat. 24:15) reads the same as 'stand in the saint's place.'

Here are 61 verses where "saints" hagios is equivalent to "holy" hagios (same Greek word):

Here the holy of holies is called the Holy Place… it’s where the Ark of the Covenant was placed and where God would appear before the high priest.


Now the LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered profane fire before the LORD, and died; and the LORD said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat. Leviticus 16:1-2

 

[RedPill]

I thought of a song .

Did you just make that up, just now?

(Too much talent in this room!)

...Leviticus 16:1-2

OT vs. NT. Old covenant vs. new covenant.

Salient point remains: standing is not the same as stand. IOW, someone's "version" is incorrect.

 

[JLB]

I thought of a song .

We shall wear a robe and crown

Watching, therefore, you know not the day
When the Lord shall call your soul away
If you're fighting, striving for the right
You shall wear a robe and crown

Watching, therefore, you know not the day
When the Lord shall call your soul away
If you're fighting, striving for the right
You shall wear a robe and crown

I'm gonna wear a crown (I'm gonna wear a crown)
I'm gonna wear a crown (I'm gonna wear a crown)
When the trumpet sounds (When that trumpet sounds)
When the trumpet sounds (When the trumpet sounds)
(I'm gonna wear a crown)
I'm gonna wear a crown (I'm gonna wear a crown)

After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”
And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Revelation 19:1-8

The context is about the righteous acts of the saints who loved not their lives unto death during the tribulation, and were martyred.

There are two scriptures in the Bible that explain mankind’s purpose for being here.

They are the contextual “book ends” of our purpose for being.

One of them is found in the passage above.


It’s not good for man (Man) to be alone. Genesis

The bride has made herself ready. Revelation

 

[JLB]

OT vs. NT. Old covenant vs. new covenant.

Salient point remains: standing is not the same as stand. IOW, someone's "version" is incorrect.

The third temple will be built soon.

The antichrist will go there and put an end to animal sacrifices and proclaim himself as God; as the Messiah.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

 

[hawkman]

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[Keraz]

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and he told him no one has ascended to heaven AND come back down , but He being Jesus came from heaven . Jesus is the only one with heavenly knowledge . "No one goes to heaven" is not even said !

The Revised English Bible, trusted by the Wickliffe translators, says: No-one has gone up to heaven, except the one who has come down from heaven.
This statement of truth, makes a rapture to heaven impossible. To interpret it as you do, requires other support, but instead of support for a rapture, we find verses like John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10 and Proverbs 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed, but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
The theory of a rapture to heaven of the Church, pre, mid or post; is simply not scriptural and will never happen.

I do not find any of these words in 1Cor15:50-56 , Great , White , Throne or Judgement . Explain if you can .

I did prove that 1 Cor 15:50-56, is a Prophecy about the GWT Judgment. It is only then that Death will be no more, Revelation 21:4 AFTER the Millennium.
All the Prophesies about body change, like ; We shall be like He is, refer to the state of Eternity.
The verses which describe the Millennium, make it clear people are still mortal, living in a physical world. Albeit; living for much longer. Isaiah 56:20

 

[hawkman]

The Revised English Bible, trusted by the Wickliffe translators, says: No-one has gone up to heaven, except the one who has come down from heaven.
This statement of truth, makes a rapture to heaven impossible.

Where is your statement of truth ?
I agree with the bible verse , they are the words of Jesus . Here they are again .
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
"no man hath ascended " does not mean they will not ever go up !

I did prove that 1 Cor 15:50-56, is a Prophecy about the GWT Judgment. It is only then that Death will be no more, Revelation 21:4 AFTER the Millennium.
All the Prophesies about body change, like ; We shall be like He is, refer to the state of Eternity.
The verses which describe the Millennium, make it clear people are still mortal, living in a physical world. Albeit; living for much longer. Isaiah 56:20

We are at an impasse on Isaiah 56:20 can you quote it so we can resolve the problem ?

 

[Keraz]

Where is your statement of truth ?

Jesus is the truth. His Words stand.
He said that no one goes to heaven. which means past. present and future. He does not contradict Himself.

We are at an impasse on Isaiah 56:20 can you quote it so we can resolve the problem ?

Sorry, typo.
Isaiah 65:20 No child there will die in infancy, no old man fail to live out his span of life. He who dies at 100 is just a youth and if he does not attain 100, he is thought accursed.
So it is mortal people who will be with Jesus in the Millennium. They procreate and die, but infant deaths may never happen and people will live as long as the Patriarchs did.
I believe; due to an increased proportion of oxygen in the atmosphere.

 

[JLB]

Jesus is the truth. His Words stand.
He said that no one goes to heaven. which means past. present and future. He does not contradict Himself.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 7:9-17


Here is a great multitude of people in heaven before the throne of God worshipping Him.

 

[Keraz]

Here is a great multitude of people in heaven before the throne of God worshipping Him.

Oh really?
Where exactly does that scripture, or any other; say - the great multitude are in heaven?

Gods Throne and heaven are Spiritual and can be seen by people on earth, if God wills it. Ezekiel 1:1, Acts 7:56
Revelation 7:1-3 set an earthy scene and there is no indication of a change in location.

I view the opinion that the vast multitude are in heaven, as an attempt to support the theory of a rapture to heaven of the Church, It fails miserably, as nowhere is it said any living person will be taken to heaven.
Those peoples will be all who have emigrated to the holy Land, soon after all that area is cleared and cleansed. To our Christian heritage and destiny. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

Note; that Revelation 7:15-17, is a Prophecy about the Eternal state. Proved by how then; God will wipe away every tear. Revelation 21;4

 

[hawkman]

Jesus is the truth. His Words stand.

We have a translation of His words in the Bible . Jesus is Truth . Man is not truth . Are you a man ?

He said that no one goes to heaven. which means past. present and future. He does not contradict Himself.

There is NO support of what you are saying so you need to stop saying this ! Jesus DID NOT say no one goes to heaven .
Proverbs 30:6

 

[JLB]

Oh really?
Where exactly does that scripture, or any other; say - the great multitude are in heaven?

I quoted the scripture from Revelation 7 which showed a great number of people in heaven.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 7:9-17

The LORD is in His holy temple,
The LORD’s throne is in heaven;
His eyes behold,
His eyelids test the sons of men.
Psalm 11:4


The LORD has established His throne in heaven,
And His kingdom rules over all. Psalm 103:19



Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. Revelation 4:2





JLB

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jesus is the truth. His Words stand.
He said that no one goes to heaven. which means past. present and future. He does not contradict Himself.

Keraz, you are engaging in a form of dodging here, and also rewriting scripture to say what it does not say. ἀναβέβηκεν is perfect indicative active, which properly translated is indeed, "No man has ascended." It does NOT say "no one does," it says "no one has," and according to the teachings of the early church that statement was 100% true at the time Jesus said it, because He had not yet descended to the Underworld and led captivity captive into Heaven with Him after the resurrection. You violate a mountain of scripture to teach this doctrine. You at least ought to give him the respect of not deflecting and ignoring his argument altogether.