The Rapture Deception

[BlessedCreator]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.

 

[daninthelionsden]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.

Yep. I was raised in Pre-Trib, but it never seemed correct(didn't sit right). In my teens I decided to read only the red words in a red letter edition of the Bible and had the sobering realization that this pie-in-the-sky pre-Trib teaching was starting to fall apart in my understanding. For decades I felt alone in my beliefs of Post-Trib. I gradually ran across more and more Post-Tribbers and there are several on this forum. Blessings.

 

[JLB]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.

Amen.


The Rapture takes place just after the Resurrection of the dead in Christ, at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



The other main thing that happens at His coming is the destruction of the antichrist.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8





JLB

 

[lecoop]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end. Yes, of course some teach this, because Paul taught it. don't stop in chapter 4; read chapter 5 and notice that Paul taught the rapture will come a moment before the Start of the Day of the Lord. This start of THE DAY comes in Revelation at the 6th seal that is sealing a book that contains the 70th week of Daniel. Therefore OF COURSE the rapture will come before the 70th week. It comes before the start of Wrath also.

They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early. Sorry, but this comment is ridiculous. In all my life I have never heard any pretribber teach this. OF COURSE we will have persecution! We love Jesus and they persecuted HIM. We live in a world whose ruler is Satan, so of course believers are persecuted. You really must learn the difference between persecution and the wrath of God. posttribbers imagine God is going to protect them during His wrath, which is OPPOSITE of what God has said: the real truth during God's wrath, and scripture any believer can put their faith on, is this: during the days of great tribulation saints are GOING to be overcome. Period and end of story. There will be no "get out of persecution" card for those left behind. God's will is for all to BELIEVE there is an escape clause from His wrath (the pretrib rapture) and TAKE IT. It seems there are so many that think they know better.

Of course Satan will do his best to convince people to miss the rapture. He wants a crack at all believers: he is convinced he can convince many of those left behind to take his mark and be doomed. He KNOWS that all fresh water will be turned to blood, and the only water to drink must be purchased. That is why he will close up all stores to those without the mark. He KNOWS thirst will be a great persuader.

The dead in Christ rise first. Yes, OF course the Dead in Christ rise first: it is so written.
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens. Yes, the resurrection of those "in Christ." It will certainly come before those who are alive and in Christ are caught up - but only a split second before.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion There IS no confusion in what Paul wrote, when one understands the other end times scriptures. Confusion could occur if one imagines the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture....but it is NOT. Confusion also could occur if one imagines the "first" or chief of resurrections happens only at one time after the 70th week has ended - but it is NOT just a one time event: Jesus was the first to partake of the "first" resurrection. The dead in Christ of the church will be second. Then the dead of the Old Covenant plus the beheaded's turn will come.

The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place. Correction, when A resurrection will take place: John shows us there are TWO resurrections, one for the just, and one for the damned.

Then we could ask, what did Jesus mean by "the last day?" The "day of the Lord" will be last - as the way the Jewish age of the 70th week will end: inside the Day of the Lord. Was Jesus speaking of the Day of the Lord? Or perhaps He was thinking of the last 24 hours of the Jewish age, or the last 24 hours of the 70th week. That is when all the Old Testament saints and the beheaded will be resurrected. (that 24 hours will also be inside the Day of the Lord. Since we have other scriptures that make it very clear that is ANOTHER resurrection, and that different groups at different times partake of the "First" resurrection, it pretty much proves what Jesus had in mind was the Day of the Lord.

In other words, this argument of "the rapture deception" is "dead on arrival." It is human reasoning without a clear understanding of end times scriptures. It also ignores the wisdom of forming doctrine - not from isolated verses - but from ALL the end times scriptures.

 

[JLB]

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end. Yes, of course some teach this, because Paul taught it. don't stop in chapter 4; read chapter 5 and notice that Paul taught the rapture will come a moment before the Start of the Day of the Lord. This start of THE DAY comes in Revelation at the 6th seal that is sealing a book that contains the 70th week of Daniel. Therefore OF COURSE the rapture will come before the 70th week. It comes before the start of Wrath also.

To be biblically correct, the rapture, resurrection and the destruction of the wicked, including the antichrist occurs at His coming, which is the Day of the Lord.


JLB

 

[JLB]

In other words, this argument of "the rapture deception" is "dead on arrival." It is human reasoning without a clear understanding of end times scriptures. It also ignores the wisdom of forming doctrine - not from isolated verses - but from ALL the end times scriptures.

Amen.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Today Christians are the most murdered , tortured , imprisoned , persecuted faith on the planet .
This From the git-go with 90% of the Lord's Apostles being tortured & executed .
If you say they are not the most murdered , Tortured , Imprisoned faith you are then calling Jesus a liar .

" The world will hate you " ( Jesus )

So the claim that that the pre-trib stance constitutes some sort of getting out persecution clause shows a profound ignorance both of the what Jesus says,
and world events .
Make whatever claim you want but to base it on the current charmed life enjoyed by Christians only shows that you need to educate yourself in both what Jesus says, and how the world has shown what Jesus says to be true :
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5550404.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/ISIS-Beheading-1.jpg

 

[JLB]

Today Christians are the most murdered , tortured , imprisoned , persecuted faith on the planet .
This From the git-go with 90% of the Lord's Apostles being tortured & executed .
If you say they are not the most murdered , Tortured , Imprisoned faith you are then calling Jesus a liar .

" The world will hate you " ( Jesus )

So the claim that that the pre-trib stance constitutes some sort of getting out persecution clause shows a profound ignorance both of the what Jesus says,
and world events .

Amen. Well said.

 

[for_his_glory]

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end. Yes, of course some teach this, because Paul taught it. don't stop in chapter 4; read chapter 5 and notice that Paul taught the rapture will come a moment before the Start of the Day of the Lord. This start of THE DAY comes in Revelation at the 6th seal that is sealing a book that contains the 70th week of Daniel. Therefore OF COURSE the rapture will come before the 70th week. It comes before the start of Wrath also.

They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early. Sorry, but this comment is ridiculous. In all my life I have never heard any pretribber teach this. OF COURSE we will have persecution! We love Jesus and they persecuted HIM. We live in a world whose ruler is Satan, so of course believers are persecuted. You really must learn the difference between persecution and the wrath of God. posttribbers imagine God is going to protect them during His wrath, which is OPPOSITE of what God has said: the real truth during God's wrath, and scripture any believer can put their faith on, is this: during the days of great tribulation saints are GOING to be overcome. Period and end of story. There will be no "get out of persecution" card for those left behind. God's will is for all to BELIEVE there is an escape clause from His wrath (the pretrib rapture) and TAKE IT. It seems there are so many that think they know better.

Of course Satan will do his best to convince people to miss the rapture. He wants a crack at all believers: he is convinced he can convince many of those left behind to take his mark and be doomed. He KNOWS that all fresh water will be turned to blood, and the only water to drink must be purchased. That is why he will close up all stores to those without the mark. He KNOWS thirst will be a great persuader.

The dead in Christ rise first. Yes, OF course the Dead in Christ rise first: it is so written.
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens. Yes, the resurrection of those "in Christ." It will certainly come before those who are alive and in Christ are caught up - but only a split second before.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion There IS no confusion in what Paul wrote, when one understands the other end times scriptures. Confusion could occur if one imagines the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture....but it is NOT. Confusion also could occur if one imagines the "first" or chief of resurrections happens only at one time after the 70th week has ended - but it is NOT just a one time event: Jesus was the first to partake of the "first" resurrection. The dead in Christ of the church will be second. Then the dead of the Old Covenant plus the beheaded's turn will come.

The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place. Correction, when A resurrection will take place: John shows us there are TWO resurrections, one for the just, and one for the damned.

Then we could ask, what did Jesus mean by "the last day?" The "day of the Lord" will be last - as the way the Jewish age of the 70th week will end: inside the Day of the Lord. Was Jesus speaking of the Day of the Lord? Or perhaps He was thinking of the last 24 hours of the Jewish age, or the last 24 hours of the 70th week. That is when all the Old Testament saints and the beheaded will be resurrected. (that 24 hours will also be inside the Day of the Lord. Since we have other scriptures that make it very clear that is ANOTHER resurrection, and that different groups at different times partake of the "First" resurrection, it pretty much proves what Jesus had in mind was the Day of the Lord.

In other words, this argument of "the rapture deception" is "dead on arrival." It is human reasoning without a clear understanding of end times scriptures. It also ignores the wisdom of forming doctrine - not from isolated verses - but from ALL the end times scriptures.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[for_his_glory]

A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a Great Tribulation. No one will know the day or the hour of Christ return, Matthew 24:36, but scripture does give us signs to watch for, especially Matthew 24:29-31. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. IMO, there is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through including God's great wrath to come before the new heaven and new Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven. Matthew 24:36, 37; Deuteronomy 4:29-31; Matthew 24:21; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:17; Matthew 24:13.

God's great wrath during the sounding of the seven trumpets in Revelations is poured out into the world in hopes all would turn back to Him as He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. This is the ending of God's long suffering and patience like that of Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis 18, 19. We are kept by God during these times of temptation during His great wrath that we not turn away from Him, but stand strong in faith that is Christ Jesus and our promised inheritance of the kingdom of God, 1 Peter 1:5-23. We are not to fear that which must come first nor what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28, and also forewarned to flee when we see the abomination that causes desolation that Daniel in Daniel Chpater 7spoke of, Matthew 24:15-21, Rev 13. God does not want us to fear those things which must come, but be prepared for those things which have to come first before Christ returns. If we are truly indwelled and sealed by the Spirit of God through repentance and faith that is Christ Jesus then we need not fear what man can do to the flesh as we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. We have died to self and we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. We will be the witness of Christ to the world when the last of the abominations take place and our only concern needs to be of us being the witness to the nations that God has called us to be.

It is so imperative to understand the full context of scripture so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns on the last day with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21. (Note: No saints return with Him as no one has ever died and ascended up to heaven other than Christ who descended down from heaven to seek and save the lost, John 3:13-21. At that time every eye will see Him come in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven, even those who pierced Him, Acts 1:11; Rev 1:7. Notice where it says even those who pierced Him as they are even now in their grave. On the last day after the seventh trumpet has sounded and the beast and false prophet are destroyed and cast into the lake of fire Satan is then bound for a time as the one and only resurrection of all who are in their grave will hear His voice calling them to come forth out of them. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29; 6:40.

At the great white throne judgement Jesus will be seated on His throne of glory as God commits all judgment unto the Son, John 5:22. The books will be opened, including the Lamb's book of life, and all will be judged as Jesus will then gather all nations (people) before Him and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. The sheep will hear Jesus say: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". The goats will hear Jesus say: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", Matthew 25:31-46.

Pretrib teachers twist and add to Rev 4:1, 2 to show we are caught up to Jesus before the great tribulation (God's great wrath). This is a deceptive teaching as it is only John being caught up in the Spirit while being a prisoner on the isle of Patmos as he sees a vision of a door opening before him. The first voice he heard speaking to him was that of great power and authority similar to the powerful sound a trumpet makes. The voice tells John to draw in closer to Gods Spirit to see the visions of those things that are yet future. After hearing this voice John was immediately immersed (slain) in the Holy Spirit and the visions were revealed to him. Being slain in the Spirit is like those disciples in John 18:6 who fell backwards when they realized the Spirit of Christ as being the I Am. It's also like that of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:3-8. Many, including myself, that have ever experienced this knows what I am talking about.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it. And every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation, Ephesians 1:13-14 and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Consecrated Life]

[/QUOTE]

A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a Great Tribulation.
... We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse...

Wow worse than this :

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5550404.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/ISIS-Beheading-1.jpg

Once you are having your head chopped off how does it get "worse" ?
Really?
Where is this alternate universe you speak off where Christians are not being beheaded, tortured , raped , imprisoned TODAY more than any other faith on the face of the earth ?
I would like to see that place .

 

[GodsGrace]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Some are teaching that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the coming Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned.

Don't know much about eschatology....
but tell me this:

If one happens just after the other...
What's the difference between the rapture and the resurrection?

Just to let you know...
I don't believe in the rapture...
No such animal in the N.T.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Don't know much about eschatology....
but tell me this:

If one happens just after the other...
What's the difference between the rapture and the resurrection?

Nicodemus asked Jesus essentially the same question :
How can a man come out of his mothers womb twice ?
Your confusion is identical to his .
Nothing wrong in honest questioning, Jesus always dealt tenderly with honest questions.
The difference is that one speaks to a specific physical transformation ( resurrection ) , while the other is speaking to a spiritual transformation ( rapture ).
The sin nature that we all still live with being removed in the twinkling of an eye .

 

[GodsGrace]

Nicodemus asked Jesus essentially the same question :
How can a man come out of his mothers womb twice ?
Your confusion is identical to his .
Nothing wrong in honest questioning, Jesus always dealt tenderly with honest questions.
The difference is that one speaks to a specific physical transformation ( resurrection ) , while the other is speaking to a spiritual transformation ( rapture ).
The sin nature that we all still live with being removed in the twinkling of an eye .

The above doesn't really answer my question.
I know what the resurrection is and I know what the rapture is.

What I'm asking, and maybe JLB could help me out IF he agrees with you, is this:

You said the rapture happens and then the resurrection.
If one happens right after the other,,,then there is NO RAPTURE....

Jesus comes back, when He's supposed to, and the living are taken up and the dead are resurrected and taken up.

It's all ONE ACTION.

??

 

[jasonc]

Don't know much about eschatology....
but tell me this:

If one happens just after the other...
What's the difference between the rapture and the resurrection?

Just to let you know...
I don't believe in the rapture...
No such animal in the N.T.

Neither is the word trinity .

The word to be caught up in Latin is raptos,.

The root word for rapture,raptor,to catch,to detain,to arrest.

I think,the return is gonna be very much the arrest of his people from the earth as he judges,hands moving us to safety as the wrath is poured out

 

[GodsGrace]

Neither is the word trinity .

The word to be caught up in Latin is raptos,.

The root word for rapture,raptor,to catch,to detain,to arrest.

I think,the return is gonna be very much the arrest of his people from the earth as he judges,hands moving us to safety as the wrath is poured out

Like I said,,,I don't know too much about the end times.

I'm just wondering how the rapture and the resurrection could happen at the same time.
I would go ahead and call this the resurrection.

I don't believe any rapture is going to happen BEFORE Jesus comes back.

 

[jasonc]

Like I said,,,I don't know too much about the end times.

I'm just wondering how the rapture and the resurrection could happen at the same time.
I would go ahead and call this the resurrection.

I don't believe any rapture is going to happen BEFORE Jesus comes back.

Those that are alive at His return shall be caught up to meet him in,the air..

 

[GodsGrace]

Those that are alive at His return shall be caught up to meet him in,the air..

Agreed !!

 

[Consecrated Life]

The above doesn't really answer my question.
I know what the resurrection is and I know what the rapture is.

What I'm asking, and maybe JLB could help me out IF he agrees with you, is this:

You said the rapture happens and then the resurrection.
If one happens right after the other,,,then there is NO RAPTURE....

Jesus comes back, when He's supposed to, and the living are taken up and the dead are resurrected and taken up.

It's all ONE ACTION.

??

The above doesn't really answer my question.
I know what the resurrection is and I know what the rapture is.

What I'm asking, and maybe JLB could help me out IF he agrees with you, is this:

You said the rapture happens and then the resurrection.
If one happens right after the other,,,then there is NO RAPTURE....

Jesus comes back, when He's supposed to, and the living are taken up and the dead are resurrected and taken up.

It's all ONE ACTION.

Let me try another way .
Jesus bringing Lazarus forth from the grave after death & decomposing for several days was more the example of the Resurrection .
" resurrection " by definition excludes the involvement of living breathing flesh :

" res-ur-rec-tion 1. The state of one who has risen from the dead , returned to life ."
( American Heritage College dic-tion-ary , fourth edition )

Jesus transforming deformed living flesh that still had living oxygenated blood flowing through it, in the twinkling of eye is more the example of rapture :

"Then He saith to the man , stretch forth thine hand, And he stretched it forth,
and it was restored whole ." ( Matthew 12: 13-14 )

And for the record I never said that these two different things cannot happen simultaneously . They can, and they will .
I hope this helps . Kind regards , Consecrated Life

 

[GodsGrace]

Let me try another way .
Jesus bringing Lazarus forth from the grave after death & decomposing for several days was more the example of the Resurrection .
" resurrection " by definition excludes the involvement of living breathing flesh :

" res-ur-rec-tion 1. The state of one who has risen from the dead , returned to life ."
( American Heritage College dic-tion-ary , fourth edition )

Jesus transforming deformed living flesh that still had living oxygenated blood flowing through it, in the twinkling of eye is more the example of rapture :

"Then He saith to the man , stretch forth thine hand, And he stretched it forth,
and it was restored whole ." ( Matthew 12: 13-14 )

And for the record I never said that these two different things cannot happen simultaneously . They can, and they will .
I hope this helps . Kind regards , Consecrated Life

So you're saying the rapture....the living
and the resurrection....the dead
takes place at the same time....
OK,,,,I agree.


1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.