the rapture

[Sam21]

For some time since my salvation I have been presented with a variety of ideas as to just what a Christian is and it has become very popular to lower the standard to allow greater numbers to come into the fold and to disregard what the Bible, the revelation of God and f His will for His people. Before I became a follower of my LORD, Jesus, the Christ, I thought the idea of any of the scripture being the truth. Since my conversion in 1990 my entire out look and my complete life has been regenerated and it is my firm position that every word of the scriptures, contained in the Christian Bible, is the God inspired truth.

Now you have my statement of faith and we'll move on to the subject matter. The variety of beliefs today that attempt to be labeled 'Christian' run a very wide range from my position to 'the Bible is not the Word of God but the Word of God can be found there.' After the past 21 years of study, the one thing that I know for certain is that a saved man, woman or child are indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God! Now, on that basis and God's knowledge of what each of His Children needs I understand that the applied meaning of any scripture or group of scriptures will vary from Child of God to Child of God.

As I have studied and as I have matured in my faith over the past two decades I have read and reread the scriptures. On each reading God has revealed new truths and all of them from the same scriptures. Not one lesson learned disagrees with any other lesson from a certain point in scripture but rather each lesson clarifies and magnifies the other. As the years have passed I have learned some great points I had not discovered yet and at the same time I have been used of God to teach some points others had missed until God revealed them through me.

From all of this we have, what I am instructed to understand as twelve points of Christianity. I submit to you;

Twelve Points That Show Christianity is True
Truth about reality is knowable.
The opposite of true is false.
It is true that the theistic God exists.
If God exists, then miracles are possible.
Miracles can be used to confirm a message from God
(i.e., as an act of God to confirm a word from God).
The New Testament is historically reliable.
The New Testament says Jesus claimed to be God.
Jesus' claim to be God was miraculously confirmed by:
a. His fulfillment of many prophecies about Himself;
b. His sinless and miraculous life;
c. His prediction and accomplishment of His resurrection.
Therefore, Jesus is God.
Whatever Jesus (who is God) teaches is true.
Jesus taught that the Bible is the Word of God.
Therefore, it is true that the Bible is the Word of God
(and anything opposed to it is false)
Copied from theologyweb.com
Now we are at my point concerning the Rapture! The term rapture is not found in the English translations I have read, rather the term is used to codify the teaching of Paul in 1Thes. 4;13-18. In a recent post, in response to one of mine a slippery accusation was leveled at me that fell just short of accusing the person of not being saved. While in my post I had not even alluded to such I am guilty of believing every word of the scriptures and I have serious doubt of anyone that does not hold that position.

So we have arrived at the point where I usually recommend self examination because I am not God and I can condemn no one, that is God's providence. As per Matt. 7, all of it, it is my place to judge/discern the truth and the criteria I am to use is to inspect their fruit. If a person tells me they do not believe anything the Bible teaches, their fruit is suspect! It all comes down to one point, if the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, teach it we must believe it by faith or we need to nourish our faith a bit more, one or the other.
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Hi,I hope you do not get discouraged in this forum,there are a number of folks in here who know the bible reasonable well but don't really have a clue about honest interpretation of scripture, for them it is all about manipulation and ego,they are really easy to spot. There are also folks in here who really know God and are searching for what God has to say to us through the scriptures so if you have any ideas present them,however there are some who will attack you for saying your name(be prepared). In defense of this particular forum, the attacks have to be low key.

 

[Hitch]

Did i say they did not?
Certianly i posted His word regarding the saints and you came to your first question, so then where in that scripture did i say anything else regarding saints having eternal life and that they didnt? i posted His word, you came up with your question.
Why are you asking that question?

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

LOl Its still not a question Frog;

Originally Posted by Hitch
Seems I recall Jesus saying the believer has eternal life.

Thats not a question Frog.

 

[warfrog]

LOl Its still not a question Frog;
Thats not a question Frog.

I said this:

"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"
"Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You said this:

Seems I recall Jesus saying the believer has eternal life.

So I said this asking where does what i wrote from scripture say they will not have eternal life:

Where does that say they will not already be in eternal life?
Does it say they will be seperated from Him ever?

"Over such the second death has no power"

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then you said:

I think you need to review my post.

Off for a smoke I'll check in later

And i said:

I dont know what to review, you said, "it seems to me the Jesus says the believer has eternal life"

And you then replied:

You need to review whatever is required to make sense of your questions;


No. You need to review why you said "Seems I recall Jesus saying the believer has eternal life."
Why did you say that? you never answered that from me.
I never said anything indifferent from the believer having eternal life.
At His coming when He gathers His into Him they are taken from corruption to incorruption, they are given eternal life and begin eternal life with "They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years" and "Over such, the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

They are eternal through Him and will never be seprated from Him, when He gathers His they recieve the inheritance because they will never be apart from Him, they are made incorruptible.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hitch]

I said this:

"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"
"Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You said this:

Seems I recall Jesus saying the believer has eternal life.

So I said this asking where does what i wrote from scripture say they will not have eternal life:

Where does that say they will not already be in eternal life?
Does it say they will be seperated from Him ever?

"Over such the second death has no power"

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then you said:

I think you need to review my post.

Off for a smoke I'll check in later

And i said:

I dont know what to review, you said, "it seems to me the Jesus says the believer has eternal life"

And you then replied:

You need to review whatever is required to make sense of your questions;


No. You need to review why you said "Seems I recall Jesus saying the believer has eternal life."
Why did you say that? you never answered that from me.
I never said anything indifferent from the believer having eternal life.
At His coming when He gathers His into Him they are taken from corruption to incorruption, they are given eternal life and begin eternal life with "They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years" and "Over such, the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

They are eternal through Him and will never be seprated from Him, when He gathers His they recieve the inheritance because they will never be apart from Him, they are made incorruptible.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The believer having eternal life today is free from the power of the Second Death. that same believer is part of the royal prieshood. That same believer riegns in life through one Jesus Christ, no waiting a current reality.

 

[warfrog]

The believer having eternal life today is free from the power of the Second Death. that same believer is part of the royal prieshood. That same believer riegns in life through one Jesus Christ, no waiting a current reality.

I am not saying they are not, if they abide in Him and He in them, they are certianly going to have eternal life, but they are still in a corruptible body, i am in a corruptible body.

When Christ comes He gathers all of His to Him and they are given a new body an incorruptible body, we go from corruption to incorruption through Him and the second death has no power over them, blessed and holy are they.


We are awaiting, Everyone in Him is awaiting, Paul, Peter ext were waiting for that blessed Day to come!
They will be raised at His coming with all that are His that are a sleep, and those that remain will also be gathered up into Him, putting on incorruption from corruption.
It is the first resurrection and from there we shal live and reign with Christ a thousand years and after a short time inherit the new heaven and earth, New Jerusalem and God Himself shall dwell with us, and we shall be God and Christ and His forever and ever. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ

 

[warhorse]

Watch out!!! here they come like sharks to the chum. ha ha i prefer post trib myself, i just think its funny to watch them school in for the fresh meat.

 

[Hitch]

I am not saying they are not, if they abide in Him and He in them, they are certianly going to have eternal life, but they are still in a corruptible body, i am in a corruptible body.

When Christ comes He gathers all of His to Him and they are given a new body an incorruptible body, we go from corruption to incorruption through Him and the second death has no power over them, blessed and holy are they.


We are awaiting, Everyone in Him is awaiting, Paul, Peter ext were waiting for that blessed Day to come!
They will be raised at His coming with all that are His that are a sleep, and those that remain will also be gathered up into Him, putting on incorruption from corruption.
It is the first resurrection and from there we shal live and reign with Christ a thousand years and after a short time inherit the new heaven and earth, New Jerusalem and God Himself shall dwell with us, and we shall be God and Christ and His forever and ever. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ

The first reusrrection is when the believer is called from death unto life.

 

[warfrog]

The first reusrrection is when the believer is called from death unto life.

No.

The first ressurection is recieving the blessed hope of incorruption through the Lord Jesus Christ.
being called from death to life is salvation and it is in salvation that we live for our blessed hope, that we may be raised as He was raised.

The first ressurection occurs at His second coming, when we are gathered to the Lord.
"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years"

Paul also speaks of the resurrections of God, which are 3.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death."

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hitch]

No.

The first ressurection is recieving the blessed hope of incorruption through the Lord Jesus Christ.
being called from death to life is salvation and it is in salvation that we live for our blessed hope, that we may be raised as He was raised.

The first ressurection occurs at His second coming, when we are gathered to the Lord.
"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years"

Paul also speaks of the resurrections of God, which are 3.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death."

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The resurrection is at the last day.

Do you need to see the quotes?

 

[warfrog]

The resurrection is at the last day.

Do you need to see the quotes?

Where did i say the resurrection was not on the last day?
In fact i have been saying it is on the last day.

Christ will return, the beast and false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire, Gods angel will bind and seal Satan for a thousand years.
All in Christ shall live and reign with Him for a thousand years, recieving incorruption through Him when He gathers them to Him at His second coming.
We shall forever be with the Lord and shall live and reign with Christ a thousand years, it is the first resurrection, over such the second death has no power.
When the thousand years end, Satan shall be released, decieve the nations in the four corners of the earth, surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city and God shall devour them all with fire from heaven.
Satan shall be cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are.
God shall resurrect all the dead and judgement shall be made, the last enemy judged is Death, God will cast death into the lake of fire.
When that is done, He will create a new heaven and earth, present New Jerusalem and dwell with the Lord Jesus Christ and all who were raised in Him forever and ever.Amen.

So how is being raised eternal in Him at His second coming not the last day?
We shall all inherit the new heaven and new earth, be presented new Jerusalem and dwell with God and Christ forever and ever. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[reba]

How does one count time after the last day?

 

[Hitch]

Where did i say the resurrection was not on the last day?

Below in red

In fact i have been saying it is on the last day.

Christ will return, the beast and false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire, Gods angel will bind and seal Satan for a thousand years.
All in Christ shall live and reign with Him for a thousand years, recieving incorruption through Him when He gathers them to Him at His second coming.
We shall forever be with the Lord and shall live and reign with Christ a thousand years, it is the first resurrection, over such the second death has no power.
When the thousand years end, Satan shall be released, decieve the nations in the four corners of the earth, surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city and God shall devour them all with fire from heaven.
Satan shall be cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are.
God shall resurrect all the dead and judgement shall be made, the last enemy judged is Death, God will cast death into the lake of fire.
When that is done, He will create a new heaven and earth, present New Jerusalem and dwell with the Lord Jesus Christ and all who were raised in Him forever and ever.Amen.

So how is being raised eternal in Him at His second coming not the last day?

Hey its your thousand years :D. You're pretty elastic with terns so maybe you have imagined years with out days,:o might as well that would be a realistic as the rest of this nonsense.

We shall all inherit the new heaven and new earth, be presented new Jerusalem and dwell with God and Christ forever and ever. Amen.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Last I looked a year was 365 days and you want a thousand of em .

 

[Hitch]

How does one count time after the last day?

It like carrots'

Carrot are divine

You get a dozen for dime

You know its

Magic

BugsBunny 1947

 

[warfrog]

How does one count time after the last day?

Because the last day isnt speaking of the sun and the moon or 24 hours.
The last day is speaking of being created eternally as Christ was, which is our promise through Him, that whoever believes in Him will have everlasting life.

We are corruption, we live in corruptible bodies, that is the flesh through the first man, Adam.

"So also is the first resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man."

When Christ returns and we are gathered to Him, raised from corruption, changed from corruption and given incorruption we are on the last day, because through Him, there are no more days, we are raised eternal like Him, we have no more days because we have immortality through Him.
It does not mean there will be no more time, but time will be nothing because we are eternal.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hitch]

Because the last day isnt speaking of the sun and the moon or 24 hours.
The last day is speaking of being created eternally as Christ was, which is our promise through Him, that whoever believes in Him will have everlasting life.

We are corruption, we live in corruptible bodies, that is the flesh through the first man, Adam.

"So also is the first resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man."

When Christ returns and we are gathered to Him, raised from corruption, changed from corruption and given incorruption we are on the last day, because through Him, there are no more days, we are raised eternal like Him, we have no more days because we have immortality through Him.
It does not mean there will be no more time, but time will be nothing because we are eternal.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

OK so how about some support from scripture, I can list all the scriptures that use the term 'last day' if you need them .


Personally I think you are more inclined to have private definitions when ever you think you need them

 

[warfrog]

OK so how about some support from scripture, I can list all the scriptures that use the term 'last day' if you need them .


Personally I think you are more inclined to have private definitions when ever you think you need them

That is because you sit before the throne waiting to throw out accusations, that is why you are inclined to believe what it is you believe when you cant even possibly know anything of the sort.

Please present each scripture.
If you cannot post appropriatley according to how a brethren should post, i will no longer respond to any of your postings until you apologize for your actions today.

Also i have used scripture, in fact in almost every post i present scripture, in many of my words where i dont " " scripture i still use words from scripture.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[freeway]

Because the last day isnt speaking of the sun and the moon or 24 hours.
The last day is speaking of being created eternally as Christ was, which is our promise through Him, that whoever believes in Him will have everlasting life.

We are corruption, we live in corruptible bodies, that is the flesh through the first man, Adam.

"So also is the first resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man."

When Christ returns and we are gathered to Him, raised from corruption, changed from corruption and given incorruption we are on the last day, because through Him, there are no more days, we are raised eternal like Him, we have no more days because we have immortality through Him.
It does not mean there will be no more time, but time will be nothing because we are eternal.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Nicely put..

 

[Hitch]

That is because you sit before the throne waiting to throw out accusations, that is why you are inclined to believe what it is you believe when you cant even possibly know anything of the sort.

Please present each scripture.
If you cannot post appropriatley according to how a brethren should post, i will no longer respond to any of your postings until you apologize for your actions today.

Also i have used scripture, in fact in almost every post i present scripture, in many of my words where i dont " " scripture i still use words from scripture.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Nehemiah 8:18
Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner

• John 6:39
  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
  John 6:38-40 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
• John 6:40
  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
  
  
• John 6:44
  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
  John 6:43-45 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
• John 6:54
  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
  John 6:53-55 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
• John 7:37
  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
  
  
• John 11:24
  Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
  
  
• John 12:48
  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

There ya go.:yes

 

[freeway]

How does one count time after the last day?

Exactly Reba... the first measure of time is called the 1000 yr reign of Christ.
the Second is called eternity, in which time is no longer measured.

 

[freeway]

Nehemiah 8:18
Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner

• John 6:39
  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
  John 6:38-40 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
• John 6:40
  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6:39-41&version=KJV
  
  
• John 6:44
  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
  John 6:43-45 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
• John 6:54
  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
  John 6:53-55 (in Context) John 6 (Whole Chapter)
• John 7:37
  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+7:36-38&version=KJV
  
  
• John 11:24
  Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11:23-25&version=KJV
  
  
• John 12:48
  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

There ya go.:yes

I'll see if warfrog wants to answer this simple question. If he does not I will...:D