the rapture

[th1b.taylor]

Perhaps you should read the OP, posted by me? The Thessalonian passage, as has been noted by others, is not an exclusive passage but with any Chain Reference Bible it is easily connected with the other relevant passages.

 

[Prince]

Do you believe that the church will be gathered off the earth as described in Matt 24?

Matthew 24 does not describe that...

Please post the scripture...

 

[warfrog]

Perhaps you should read the OP, posted by me? The Thessalonian passage, as has been noted by others, is not an exclusive passage but with any Chain Reference Bible it is easily connected with the other relevant passages.

Greetings, i did read the opening post before, i did not notice the scripture refrence given there before, thank you.

So what do you say then to when the rapture is given in responce to those scriptures posted when i say refrence those scripture to 1 Corinthians 15:20-28?

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[warhorse]

Matthew 24 does not describe that...

Please post the scripture...

This is what he is likely refering to.

Mathew 24v29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Prince]

This is what he is likely refering to.

Mathew 24v29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hello warhorse, you know my bands name is double DArkhorse (a work in procress)

1st) it says AFTER the tribulation, so anyone who thinks you will be flying out of here - even if you were to fly (you wont) you still must wait till after the tribulation....

Do you mind if I use Mark 13 for a moment.

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Notice that people are being gathered on the earth "AFTER THE TRIBULATION"

So of course my 1st question in debunking this theory would be ,,When does the rapture happen - before or after the tribulation?

 

[Hitch]

This is what he is likely refering to.

Mathew 24v29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Acts 2:5
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven

 

[warfrog]

Acts 2:5
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven

Are you using Acts 2:5 in connection to the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31?

If so, you are saying the Gentiles are denied in the gathering at the coming of the Son of Man.
Also saying the Holy Spirit is the blessed hope of resurrection, the Holy Spirit is a promise in the body, as Jesus rose so shall He raise us at His coming is what is being spoken of in Matthew, the inheritance of the spiritual body, the blessed hope in Christ.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hitch]

Are you using Acts 2:5 in connection to the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31?

If so, you are saying the Gentiles are denied in the gathering at the coming of the Son of Man.

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

LMBO

 

[warfrog]

LMBO

I dont know what that means Hitch, LMBO

 

[jasoncran]

laughing my but off

 

[Sam21]

Matthew 24 does not describe that...

Please post the scripture...

Sigh! In point of fact Matt 24 DOES describe the church being gathered off the earth after the wrath of satan that Jesus called the great tribulation...people will make up stories to void out this teaching of Jesus gathering the church but it is still a description of Jesus gathering the church if you will accept what is in the bible and reject the extra biblical opinions of men.

 

[Stormcrow]

Are you using Acts 2:5 in connection to the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31?

Amended: Acts 2:5 happened about 40 years before the events of Matthew 24, just to set the record straight.

In the context of Acts 2, there is an "Ingathering", but it was well before Matthew 24:31.

 

[Stormcrow]

"Be saved from this perverse generation!"

Why would Peter tell them that (Acts 2) if he didn't know what that generation was going to face?

{36} "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36 (NASB)

{30} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

 

[Stormcrow]

In point of fact Matt 24 DOES describe the church being gathered off the earth after the wrath of satan that Jesus called the great tribulation

You've been shown repeatedly that the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24 is the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans in 70 AD.

You've been shown - in fact - how the gospel was preached throughout the whole world, and how Tiberius Caesar himself helped facilitate that!

The great tribulation of Matthew 24 is God's vengeance on Jerusalem for killing His Son! Satan had nothing to do with it!

 

[n2thelight]

Sigh! In point of fact Matt 24 DOES describe the church being gathered off the earth after the wrath of satan that Jesus called the great tribulation...people will make up stories to void out this teaching of Jesus gathering the church but it is still a description of Jesus gathering the church if you will accept what is in the bible and reject the extra biblical opinions of men.

What verse or verses in this chapter show Christ rapturing the church?

 

[Sinthesis]

Today's pop culture definition of the rapture is the result of the blending of several separate scriptural ideas into a single errant idea which, being errant, satisfies nobody's desire for truth. Thus we get all this rancor between well meaning Christians who are simply yet vigorously defending their favorite beliefs about a puzzling prophecy which God didn't actually proclaim, at least in the way they so desire.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." :fencing Inigo Montoya

Verses such as Matt 24:31 are in fact describing the emergent Christian church which coalesced out of the aftermath of 70AD.(In figurative language of course):yes

 

[warhorse]

Hello warhorse, you know my bands name is double DArkhorse (a work in procress)

1st) it says AFTER the tribulation, so anyone who thinks you will be flying out of here - even if you were to fly (you wont) you still must wait till after the tribulation....

Do you mind if I use Mark 13 for a moment.

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Notice that people are being gathered on the earth "AFTER THE TRIBULATION"

So of course my 1st question in debunking this theory would be ,,When does the rapture happen - before or after the tribulation?

I just Gave you the scripture, i am post trib myself. i do believe we will meet him in the clouds though before returning with him to Jerusalam.

1 thess 4v17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hello Warhorse,
I'm Pre-Trib nut I'm also smart enough to admit that, on the timing, I can be wrong! No matter, the timing, I'll be there, and I'll bet you will also!

 

[warfrog]

Hello Warhorse,
I'm Pre-Trib nut I'm also smart enough to admit that, on the timing, I can be wrong! No matter, the timing, I'll be there, and I'll bet you will also!

Ok, thats fair, so if i told you right now God is giving you His grace and knowledge and i am speaking to you through the Holy Spirit to show you when He will raise you up in the gathering with the saints, will you give it a clear thought of mind?


1 Corinthians 15:22-24 That is when the "rapture" takes place my brother, that is when we shall be gathered up into Him together with Him forever and ever.Amen.
Christ returns here:
Revelations 19:11-21 that is the day of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ when we are gathered up into Him.

We will not be taken out prior.
To be "raptured" is to change from the flesh to the spiritual am i correct in that understanding my brother?
Brother Paul shows us the 3 times this occurs, when the flesh is made spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28

1st time:is Christ, the firstfruits.
2nd time: is the saints, "His" at His coming
3rd time: is the dead, who are being judged in Revelation 20:11-15

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Prince]

Ok, thats fair, so if i told you right now God is giving you His grace and knowledge and i am speaking to you through the Holy Spirit to show you when He will raise you up in the gathering with the saints, will you give it a clear thought of mind?


1 Corinthians 15:22-24 That is when the "rapture" takes place my brother, that is when we shall be gathered up into Him together with Him forever and ever.Amen.
Christ returns here:
Revelations 19:11-21 that is the day of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ when we are gathered up into Him.

We will not be taken out prior.
To be "raptured" is to change from the flesh to the spiritual am i correct in that understanding my brother?
Brother Paul shows us the 3 times this occurs, when the flesh is made spiritual in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28

1st time:is Christ, the firstfruits.
2nd time: is the saints, "His" at His coming
3rd time: is the dead, who are being judged in Revelation 20:11-15

Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 That is when the "rapture" takes place my brother, that is when we shall be gathered up into Him together with Him forever and ever.Amen.

There is no mention of a rapture in these verses...


Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
I Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming."
I Corinthians 15:24 "Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."