The resurrection

[reba]

You lost me again but I'm not quitting.
Someday I might understand you and then I will know if I will agree with you. Until then, I stand where I am.

PERF! Wonderful quote....

 

[John 8:32]

Hi John 8:32 and Doulos Thanks for giving me an understanding of you doctrinal beliefs.

Consider thefollowing

John’s quote

There is NO second chance. However, if God were gracious enough to give a second chanceor a third, WOULD IT ANGER YOU? It angers some and that seems odd to me. If asecond chance would save someone from eternal death, so what? Bottom line:There is one opportunity and only one opportunity for salvation, so all of oursupposes and $1.79 will get us a coffee at Mickey D's.

Take note John ;how is your coffee at Mickey D’s J

“So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, THEY BEGAN TO GRUMBLE AGAINSTTHE LANDOWNER.

These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said,'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.' "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am notbeing unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay andgo. I WANT TO GIVE THE MAN WHO WAS HIRED LAST THE SAME AS I GAVE YOU”

John and Doulos I am trying to balance out your view on the following verses. By the way I don’t believe in a second chance salvation plan myself. However I think God can take the umbrella, atonement, of Christ over anyone he cares to.

For example a new born baby, a person who doesn’t have the mental composites to understand etc. Do you have any thoughts on this!

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I see a conflict in this verse and the Great Controversy doctrine most believe and teach. The real answer lies in the second resurrection. Not all have had an opportunity for salvation including newborns who die, mentally invalid and those who were just not given a chance. There is a first chance for them.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The time for this is after the Millenium and after Satan has his final judgment...

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Now at this time is a resurrection. It is not the first resurrection, that was 1000 years prior...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

These are the dead resurrected to physical life, the books are opened...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

What books? Certainly not the Book of Life, it is mentioned separately. What is not opened to most today and in the past?

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

There were people in the past who, through no fault of their own, could not understand the truth of God...

Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Israel did not understand...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

God laments the fact that Israel did not have the heart to obey Him and fear Him.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

God has concluded people in unbelief and who can resist Him? Why? So that at a later time, He could have mercy on them.

Even His very close friends, His disciples, did not understand until a special miracle was performed in them...

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Until that time the books were not opened to them. At the time of the second resurrection, commonly called the Great White Throne Judgment, all who have not been able to understand and comprehend will be given life again and have the opportunity to understand. People read judgment here and automatically think sentencing. This is a time of determination, a time of deciding. The church is being judged today...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Anyhoo, for these people in the second resurrection the books, all 66 of them, will be opened.

How long will they have? Doesn't really say, but there is a clue...

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

This verse says several things. One thing it says is that there will not be any more babies born during this time: "There shall be no more thence an infant of days". The lifespan will be 100 years. At the end of 100 years sinners will be accursed. And that leads right in to Rev 20:13-15, the third resurrection, the resurrection to damnation.

What happens to babies who die in infancy, they are given 100 years to make a choice...

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

THE NATURE OF GODON THE JUDGMENT DAY ON THE RESURRECTION DAY

I find it sad today there are many Christians walking around thinking they got it made with God because of their faith. Just like the Jew of Old thinking because they were Jewish they had it made. Kind of puts God in a box! HE CAN TAKE THE UMBRELLA OF CHRIST AND PUT IT OVER ANYONE HE CARES TO.“For

God does not show favoritism” Consider the following. “But IF YOU SHOW FAVORITISM, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers”

“Religion that God our Father accepts as pureand faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress”

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required bythe law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,since they show that the requirements of the LAW ARE WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS,their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

"This will take place on the day when GOD WILL JUDGEMEN'S SECRETS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, as my gospel declares".

“THEREFORE JUDGE NOTHING BEFORE THE APPOINTED TIME; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose themotives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil. Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins. “Therefore God has mercy on WHOM HE WANTS TO HAVE MERCY and he hardens whom he wants to harden BUT WHO ARE YOU, O MAN, TO TALK BACK TO GOD?

I think there is going to be many surprises on judgment day!

What’s your take!

Larry

 

[Larry H]

Hi John Good stuff

You said:

Isa 65:20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath notfilled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinnerbeing an hundred years old shall be accursed.

This verse says several things. One thing it says is that there will not be anymore babies born during this time: "There shall be no more thence aninfant of days". The lifespan will be 100 years. At the end of 100 yearssinners will be accursed. And that leads right in to Rev20:13-15, the third resurrection, the resurrection to damnation.

What happens to babies who die in infancy, they are given 100 years to make achoice..

The chapter in Isaiah is referencing the New Heaven and Earth. However there will be no death! No death, no resurrection!

Revelation 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order ofthings has passed away."

Isaiah 65:17 "Behold, I will create NEW HEAVENS AND ANEW EARTH. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalemto be a delight and its people a joy.

19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.

20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

There will be no more marriage in the New Heavens and Earth.

Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; they will be like the angels in heaven.

And if so there will be children born out of wedlock.

Larry

 

[John 8:32]

Hi John Good stuff

You said:

Isa 65:20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath notfilled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinnerbeing an hundred years old shall be accursed.

This verse says several things. One thing it says is that there will not be anymore babies born during this time: "There shall be no more thence aninfant of days". The lifespan will be 100 years. At the end of 100 yearssinners will be accursed. And that leads right in to Rev20:13-15, the third resurrection, the resurrection to damnation.

What happens to babies who die in infancy, they are given 100 years to make achoice..

The chapter in Isaiah is referencing the New Heaven and Earth. However there will be no death! No death, no resurrection!

Revelation 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order ofthings has passed away."

Isaiah 65:17 "Behold, I will create NEW HEAVENS AND ANEW EARTH. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalemto be a delight and its people a joy.

19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.

20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

There will be no more marriage in the New Heavens and Earth.

Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; they will be like the angels in heaven.

And if so there will be children born out of wedlock.

Larry

Isaiah gave us this principle...

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Now for Isa 65, is this part of the NH and NE?

Isa 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
Isa 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
Isa 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

We agree it is not.

Now verse 20

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

With the former verses in mind God says that He will create a NH and NE and the FORMER sorrows will not be remembered.

OK, but does everything that follows fall under that?

Now, the NW and NE are at the same time as the New Jerusalem aren't they? Doesn't the New Jerusalem fit into the NH and NE?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

So, back to Isa 65.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

This cannot be the time of the NH and NE because at that time there is no death...

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So, what we see here is another change in thought (here a little, there a little) back to the time of the Millenium and GWTJ.

Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

This is describing humans in the Millenium enjoying the wonderful fruits of the government of God on earth when the following occurs...

Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Why?

Isa_2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

 

[Deborah13]

This is the Great Controversy doctrine of the SDAs.

What does SDA stand for, please? Thanks

 

[John 8:32]

This is the Great Controversy doctrine of the SDAs.

What does SDA stand for, please? Thanks

Sorry, I thought everyone knew that the Great Controversy doctrine is the mainstay of Seventh Day Adventist teachings.

***Edit*** Now that did not come out the way it was suppose to. It sounds like I am being condescending there. What I meant was that I assumed too much in thinking it was known at large. I did not mean it to sound as it did. My apologies.

 

[Deborah13]

Now that did not come out the way it was suppose to

lol, I didn't take it that way either but thanks for being concerned, we all need to be that away.

 

[Larry H]

Hi John

I said;

The chapter in Isaiah is referencing the New Heaven and Earth. However there will be no death! No death, no resurrection!

Revelation21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order ofthings has passed away."

Isaiah65:17 "Behold, I will create NEW HEAVENS AND ANEW EARTH. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.

19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be

20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, oran old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will bethought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

There will be no more marriage in the New Heavens and Earth.

Matthew22:30 At the resurrection people will NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE; they will be like the angels in heaven.

And if so there will be children born out of wedlock.

John said:

Isaiah gave us this principle...

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, lineupon line; here a little, and there a little:

Now for Isa 65, is this part of the NH and NE?

Isa 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought menot: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by myname.
Isa 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walkethin a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
Isa 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth ingardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

We agree it is not.

Now verse 20

Isa 65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not beremembered, nor come into mind.

With the former verses in mind God says that He will create a NH and NE and the FORMER sorrows will not be remembered.

OK, but does everything that follows fall under that?

Now, the NW and NE are at the same time as the New Jerusalem aren't they? Doesn't the New Jerusalem fit into the NH and NE?

There are three resurrection and two different judgment periods divided by thousands of years? If the Holy City,New Jerusalem contains only the righteous after the final resurrection, where does the bad guy come from?

Revelation 21:27 and there may not at all enter into it [ NewJerusalem] any thing defiling and doing abomination, and a lie, but — those written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb. YLT

I think you may have taken these verses out of context in Isaiah chapter 28 It is referring to a situation of the proud city of Samaria, the drunks of Israel being trampled beneath its enemies' feet. Verse 3 And then they say in arrogance."Who does the Lord think we are?" they ask. "Why does he speak to us like this?

Are We LITTLE CHILDREN, just recently weaned? “He tells thing over and over one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there!" verses 9 and 10

You asked John doesn’t New Jerusalem fit into the New Heavens and Earth. It does however what’s you take on the city. What does it represent?

Larry

 

[John 8:32]

Hi John

I said;



John said:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, lineupon line; here a little, and there a little:

Now for Isa 65, is this part of the NH and NE?

Isa 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought menot: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by myname.
Isa 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walkethin a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
Isa 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth ingardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

We agree it is not.

Now verse 20

Isa 65:17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not beremembered, nor come into mind.

With the former verses in mind God says that He will create a NH and NE and the FORMER sorrows will not be remembered.

OK, but does everything that follows fall under that?

Now, the NW and NE are at the same time as the New Jerusalem aren't they? Doesn't the New Jerusalem fit into the NH and NE?

There are three resurrection and two different judgment periods divided by thousands of years? If the Holy City,New Jerusalem contains only the righteous after the final resurrection, where does the bad guy come from?

Revelation 21:27 and there may not at all enter into it [ NewJerusalem] any thing defiling and doing abomination, and a lie, but — those written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb. YLT

What bad guy? The incorrigibly wicked are destroyed prior to the New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. That is the final resurrection in Rev 20:13-15. The Lake of Fire that burns up all evil adn purifies the earth. The next event then is the coming of the New Jerusalem. Now as far as...

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

This verse does not say there are bad guys lurking around outside the gates at all. What it says is that they won't be there. Of course they won't, they have already been burned up in the Lake of fire.

I think you may have taken these verses out of context in Isaiah chapter 28 It is referring to a situation of the proud city of Samaria, the drunks of Israel being trampled beneath its enemies' feet. Verse 3 And then they say in arrogance."Who does the Lord think we are?" they ask. "Why does he speak to us like this?

Are We LITTLE CHILDREN, just recently weaned? “He tells thing over and over one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there!" verses 9 and 10

Are we little children?

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I hope and pray God sees me as a little child...

Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

As far as not understanding the context of Isa 28, I think I do.

You asked John doesn’t New Jerusalem fit into the New Heavens and Earth. It does however what’s you take on the city. What does it represent?

Larry

God Himself tells us...

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[Larry H]

Hi John

Are we little children?

Mat 18:3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become aslittle children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

1Jn 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if anyman sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 4:4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I hope and pray God sees me as a little child...

Mat 18:4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 18:17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

As far as not understanding the context of Isa 28, I think I do

Isn’t Isaiah chapter 28 A MESSAGE CONCERNING SAMARIA/EPHRAIM he penned to a then citation? And not about children of God as you are. I can see your zeal and love for our heavenly Father in your posting.

I believe it’s concerning the child like attitude,†Who does Isaiah think he is," the people say, "to speak to us like this! “ARE WE LITTLE CHILDREN, barely old enough to talk?†Isaiah 28:9 TLB

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: KJV

13 So the Lord will spell out his message FOR THEM AGAIN, one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there, so that they will stumble and fall. They will be injured, trapped, and captured.

14 Therefore, listen to this message from the Lord, YOU SCOFFING RULERS IN JERUSALEM

If you want to tag on children/Christians being told things more than once than I agree!

What bad guy? The incorrigibly wicked are destroyed prior to the New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. That is the final resurrection in

Rev20:13-15. The Lake of Fire that burns up all evil and purifies the earth.

The next event then is the coming of the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

This verse does not say there are bad guys lurking around outside the gates at all. What it says is that they won't be there. Of course they won't, they have already been burned up in the Lake of fire.

I’m assuming your taking Chapters 20-22 literally so my questions may seem odd.

Revelation 22 speaks of an ALREADY EXISTING CITY New Jerusalem and those bad guys are outside of it.

Revelation 22:15 Outside [the city] are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters andeveryone who loves and practices falsehood.

“By contrast, judgment is pronounced on those who are unsaved (dogs refers to people; Philippians 3:2â€

In what point in time does this judgment commence. Or is it taking place as humanity out lives their lives.

Larry

 

[John 8:32]

I’m assuming your taking Chapters 20-22 literally so my questions may seem odd.

Literally: There will be three resurrections, a Millenium, New Heavens and a New Earth and a New Jerusalem.

Chronologically: Satan will be bound, the Millenium begins with the resurrection of the saints, they rule for 1000 years, the second resurrection or GWTJ, the Lake of Fire (II Pet 3:10-12, Mal 4:1-3, etc.), the earth is cleansed, New Jerusalem and eternity.

Revelation 22 speaks of an ALREADY EXISTING CITY New Jerusalem and those bad guys are outside of it.

Revelation 22:15 Outside [the city] are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters andeveryone who loves and practices falsehood.

Yep, and their goose is cooked, literally. They are well done. No longer alive, that is the reward of the wicked.

“By contrast, judgment is pronounced on those who are unsaved (dogs refers to people; Philippians 3:2”

In what point in time does this judgment commence. Or is it taking place as humanity out lives their lives.

Larry

The church is being judged today...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Humans in the Millenium are judged as they live.

Those who never had a chance, are judged in the GWTJ.

Those who in full knowledge have rejected God are burned in the lake of fire.

There is more than one time of judgment.

Don't confuse judgment, sentencing and reward/execution. They are all different occurrences.

 

[John 8:32]

Hi John



Isn’t Isaiah chapter 28 A MESSAGE CONCERNING SAMARIA/EPHRAIM he penned to a then citation? And not about children of God as you are. I can see your zeal and love for our heavenly Father in your posting.

I believe it’s concerning the child like attitude,” Who does Isaiah think he is," the people say, "to speak to us like this! “ARE WE LITTLE CHILDREN, barely old enough to talk?” Isaiah 28:9 TLB

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: KJV

13 So the Lord will spell out his message FOR THEM AGAIN, one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there, so that they will stumble and fall. They will be injured, trapped, and captured.

14 Therefore, listen to this message from the Lord, YOU SCOFFING RULERS IN JERUSALEM


Larry

Are you a Preterist? If so, what I am about to say will be meaningless and we probably can't come to an understanding of each other. If not, let's look at Isa 14...

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Suddenly we see a complete change of thought, we fade from a description of Millenial times to...

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Satan and in verse 20, we begin to change thoughts again...

Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
Isa 14:28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

To the destruction of Babylon. Three different thoughts in one chapter. Ya think Isa 28 could be the same?

Christ shows that those of His time were fulfilling this...

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

And it continues to this day.

 

[Larry H]

Hi John

Wow was it something I said!

“Are you a Preterist? If so, what I am about to say will be meaningless and we probably can't come to an understanding of each other. If not, let's look at Isa 14...â€

Did some one tell you that or did you figure it out for yourself. I don’t like to be labeled a preterist, nevertheless aren’t we all too some extent.

Using the term preterist is like saying I am a Trinitarian. They are biblical expressions and not denominations. Unless one wants to say I am a Baptist. I consider myself hopefully a, bible student,child of God with resurrection promises. I never felt the scriptures or what someone had to say meaningless.

Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, andhe began by saying to them, "TODAY THIS SCRIPTURE IS FULFILLED in your hearing." Luke 4:20, 21

“Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author's meaning by the text. We only accept double-fulfillments where the Scriptures plainly declare them or justify them.

If we allow or promote double-fulfillments, then why not encourage triple-fulfillments? If we allow or promote double-fulfillments, then we can create any fulfillment we wishâ€

For example Isaiah said verse 28 said;

"Who does the Lord think we are?" they ask. "Why does he speak to us like this? Are we little children, just recently weaned?

You said

Are welittle children?

Mat 18:4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

The verse in Isaiah and the one you referenced has nothing to do with each other. Those verses are contradictory. “Since they, [the bad guy], hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the Lordâ€

Isaiah 28:9

[whom shall he teach knowledge?] This verse commences astatement respecting another form of sin that prevailed among the people of Judah. That sin was contempt for the manner in which God instructed them by the prophets and a disregard for his communications as if they were suited to children and not to adults. Albert Barnes

Isaiah 28:9

What, say they, doth he treat us as mere infants justweaned? doth he teach us like little children, perpetually inculcating the same elementary lessons, the mere rudiments of knowledge; precept after precept,line after line, here and there, by little and little? Imitating at the same time, and ridiculing, Adam Clark

“Are youa Preterist? If so, what I am about to say will be meaningless and we probablyc an't come to an understanding of each other. If not, let's look at Isa 14...â€

Since you gave mean ultimatum feel free to end our discussion. Thanks for your time!

A brother inChrist



Larry

 

[John 8:32]

Hi John

Wow was it something I said!



Did some one tell you that or did you figure it out for yourself. I don’t like to be labeled a preterist, nevertheless aren’t we all too some extent.

Using the term preterist is like saying I am a Trinitarian. They are biblical expressions and not denominations. Unless one wants to say I am a Baptist. I consider myself hopefully a, bible student,child of God with resurrection promises. I never felt the scriptures or what someone had to say meaningless.

Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, andhe began by saying to them, "TODAY THIS SCRIPTURE IS FULFILLED in your hearing." Luke 4:20, 21

“Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author's meaning by the text. We only accept double-fulfillments where the Scriptures plainly declare them or justify them.

If we allow or promote double-fulfillments, then why not encourage triple-fulfillments? If we allow or promote double-fulfillments, then we can create any fulfillment we wish”

For example Isaiah said verse 28 said;

"Who does the Lord think we are?" they ask. "Why does he speak to us like this? Are we little children, just recently weaned?

You said



The verse in Isaiah and the one you referenced has nothing to do with each other. Those verses are contradictory. “Since they, [the bad guy], hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the Lord”

Isaiah 28:9

[whom shall he teach knowledge?] This verse commences astatement respecting another form of sin that prevailed among the people of Judah. That sin was contempt for the manner in which God instructed them by the prophets and a disregard for his communications as if they were suited to children and not to adults. Albert Barnes

Isaiah 28:9

What, say they, doth he treat us as mere infants justweaned? doth he teach us like little children, perpetually inculcating the same elementary lessons, the mere rudiments of knowledge; precept after precept,line after line, here and there, by little and little? Imitating at the same time, and ridiculing, Adam Clark

“Are youa Preterist? If so, what I am about to say will be meaningless and we probablyc an't come to an understanding of each other. If not, let's look at Isa 14...”

Since you gave mean ultimatum feel free to end our discussion. Thanks for your time!

A brother inChrist



Larry

Twas not an ultimatum, it was simply a recognition of the fact we see things very differently. I do think there is type and antitype, a minor and major fulfillment. Thsi makes it difficult for us to come to an understanding. Sorry, if you are offended.

Over and out.