Bible Study The Revelation, a verse by verse systematic study

[Rodger]

Just to do something different and to try and get some input and responses I thought that I would go verse by verse in the book of The Revelation.

As I have talked with and taught people now for longer than I can remember, it seems that everyone knows all about the 2nd Coming of Christ and the Revelation He gave to John...……..until they begin to talk. So with that in mind I thought I would share with you what I believe and if we get some responses I will continue. However if there is no response or input then I will discontinue this effort.

Revelation 1:1...….
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

The theme of the book is clearly given and also who gives it.

1). The theme is to give those people who are alive just before Christ comes again the signs or things happening at that time.

2). The author is the Lord Jesus Christ.

First of all, no one knows the exact day of the Second Coming. Do not allow yourself to fall into the trap of Satan and believe what some person tells you. When someone wants you to buy there book or CD, they are LIEING!!!!!

First of all it must be understood that YOU or ANYONE else does not know when this event will take place.

Matthew 24:36...…...

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

This is not up for debate. When Jesus says NO ONE knows, then NO ONE KNOWS.


Now lets consider Matthew 24:34...……….
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

"This generation" is the key for Context. No one living when Jesus spoke those words lived to see "ALL THESE THINGS" come to pass.

The original Greek word used here can mean...."RACE" or FAMILY". That makes perfect sense in this context as the Jewish race has been preserved now for the past 2000 years. In spite of terrible persecution the Lord Jesus has kept that race of people and they exist now in the Promised land of which He gave to them going all the way back to Exodus.

"Revelation" means …….Uncovering or unveiling. So the question then must be----what is the revealing of?

The "THINGS" or EVENTS are those found in Daniels 70th Week or "Jacobs Trouble and some call this coming time as "The Tribulation Period".

If you are inclined to study deeply the Word of God, I would suggest at this time you read Daniel 7 thru 12 or at least have your Bible open to those passages.

Secondly, the key of understanding then is given to us in Matthew 24:32-34...……………..

'Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

I am one who believes that this happened on May 14th, 1948. On that day, the U.N. Security Council voted 15-0 to give Palestine back to the Jews and named that land "ISRAEL". It is of course -- The Promised Land. That act placed the nation of Israel back into the Land just as God promised them.

That act then has set in motion God's prophetic time clock. You see, we have been living in the Day of Grace or as some say, the Church Age which began when Jesus died and rose from the dead. God placed a "Time out" as you will or a GAP which is the time between the 69th and 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy.
(Read Daniel 9:23-27).

Messiah Jesus was "Cut Off" / Crucified exactly as Daniel said after the 62nd Week. So the SEVENTY WEEKS seen in Daniel 9:24 has not yet been lived hence the Church Age or Day of Grace we now live in. The EVENTS of Revelation 1:1 or the "Things" are then those events which will take place AFTER the 69th Week is completed which will actually be the 70th Week of Daniel.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Rodger,

As I have talked with and taught people now for longer than I can remember, it seems that everyone knows all about the 2nd Coming of Christ and the Revelation He gave to John...……..until they begin to talk.

Yes, there must be many different views and I will be interested to see how you develop this thread and your particular understanding of this important and remarkable Bible book.

God placed a "Time out" as you will or a GAP which is the time between the 69th and 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy.

This is an important part of your OP, but I do not accept the concept of a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

I am one who believes that this happened on May 14th, 1948. On that day, the U.N. Security Council voted 15-0 to give Palestine back to the Jews and named that land "ISRAEL". It is of course -- The Promised Land. That act placed the nation of Israel back into the Land just as God promised them.

I agree that May 14th 1948 is an important date as it is the day that David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the establishment of the Jewish State and he revealed that they would call their territory Israel. The UN vote was not on that day, but
Resolution 181 was adopted by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, with 33 countries voting in favor, 13 countries against, and with 10 countries abstaining. The vote was not to give Palestine back to the Jews, but a sub-division of the Land or Palestine, one portion Jewish, the other portion Arab. It was NOT the UN that called this Jewish territory allocation "Israel".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[kbmonday]

I agree with Trevor on this and do not believe in the parenthetical gap. Personally, I believe we are close to the end of the 2nd 70th week as many prophecies throughout the Bible have multiple fulfillments. I, likewise, am interested to see where this goes and engage in this discussion. If I may make a suggestion, which would be to also use Matt 24 as a parallel source when studying Revelation. The events that Yeshua describes there match the order of events during the breaking of the seals. I also agree with both of you that 1948 was a fulfillment of prophecy, but I don't believe it is complete yet. Truly intrigued to have this discussion brothers.

 

[Rodger]

Greetings Rodger,

Yes, there must be many different views and I will be interested to see how you develop this thread and your particular understanding of this important and remarkable Bible book.

This is an important part of your OP, but I do not accept the concept of a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks.

I agree that May 14th 1948 is an important date as it is the day that David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the establishment of the Jewish State and he revealed that they would call their territory Israel. The UN vote was not on that day, but
Resolution 181 was adopted by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, with 33 countries voting in favor, 13 countries against, and with 10 countries abstaining. The vote was not to give Palestine back to the Jews, but a sub-division of the Land or Palestine, one portion Jewish, the other portion Arab. It was NOT the UN that called this Jewish territory allocation "Israel".

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor.....the "gap" is the Church age.

The key to discovering if there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel is to carefully read Daniel 9:24. The verse tells us that at the end of the seventy weeks several things stop and something else will begin. Here is the verse.

“Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

Notice what It says which is that at the end of the seventy weeks, wrong doing, sin, and atonement for guilt will come to an end. At that time, everlasting righteousness will begin. So, has that occurred yet? Obviously, everlasting righteousness has not started, and sin still exists. Also, wrongdoing is still occurring. This means that Daniel’s 70th week has not yet occurred. Everlasting righteousness does not exist yet.

 

[Rodger]

Revelation 1:2
"who testifies to everything he saw-that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."

John is told to bear record of 3 things...…….

1). The Word of God.
2). The testimony of Christ.
3). All the things he saw.

Lots and lots of people accept ESP. Many believe the rantings of Nostradamus. Some people just believe anything that is said to them and of course we all know that everything on the internet is always the truth.

What sets apart our God and His book of truth from all the other gods and nonsense and religious dogma, is that Gods book tells the future with 100% accuracy.

There are four principle viewpoints concerning the interpretation of the Revelation.

1). Preterist.
This view says that the events in the book were already fulfilled in the early history of the church.

2). Historical.
This view sees the book as portraying a panorama of the history of the church from the days of John to the end of time.

3). Idealist.
This view considers the book as a pictorial unfolding of great priciples in constant conflict without reference as prophecy at all.

4. Futurist.
This view sees most of the book, chapters 4 to the end as prophecy yet to be fulfilled. The Futurist view is the one I entertain. I have studied all the others, and the Futurist view is the one that fits together completely with no work or manipulations to make anything understandable.

Christ Jesus is the center of the prophecy. Everything revolves around Him and for Him.

Colossians 1:16-17 ..............
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

So then, that being understood we see in verse 2...….."Bare record".

That means John was a witness of what he wrote. He SAW the revelation and wrote down what he saw.

Now allow me to give you what I believe is the key to understanding why some of the Revelation seems to be complicated.

John, while on the island of Patmos was allowed to SEE the events that were to take place in the future. Some believe that he was seeing a vision and some believe that he was actually transported by the Holy Spirit into the future and then told to record what he saw. Either one of those explanations is acceptable to me.
The problem is that he did not understand what he was seeing. He was faithful to write it all down as best he could with the mind set he has as a man living in the 1st century.

What he was seeing was 2000 years in the future so he did not have the ability to translate what he SAW to what he knew how to describe in the language he then had.

After we leave chapter 3, that will become more obvious as he will then be talking about future things and events.

Having said that, then YES, there is a lot of symbolic language in the Revelation.

 

[hawkman]

The problem is that he did not understand what he was seeing. He was faithful to write it all down as best he could with the mind set he has as a man living in the 1st century.

As God intended .

 

[Rodger]

As God intended .

Agreed.

 

[Rodger]

Revelation 1:3...…….
'Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.'

Why read the Revelation???? Why do the study of a book so filled with symbols and innuendos??? Why study things that are so hard to understand?

Some people who believe in the "Catching Away" or the RAPTURE say...……
"We will not be here so why be concerned?"

The answer is right here in front of us and it is only found in this one verse.
"BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO READS AND THOSE THAT HEAR THE WORDS OF THIS PROPHESY".

The book of the Revelation is the only book in the Bible that promises a "Blessing" to those who read it!!!!

God promises a blessing to those who read this book and those who hear. Now think for just a moment.
Why would God promise a blessing to us if the words are too hard to understand???

Another very important reality is that in John's day, the early church, there were only a few people who could read. So the more who read the Revelation blessed those who could not read.

Our understanding the Revelation is not the problem...IMO.
The problem is a lack of STUDY on our part so as to be able to grasp what God has said.

That can also be said of the other Scriptures in the Bible. Sometimes.....we must get rid of wrong teaching so as to be able to understand correct exegesis and that is the problem of a lot of people. Some people are so convinced in what they know that they become UNTEACHABLE. In other words......
they know what they like and like what they know, even if what that is......IS WRONG.

50 years ago I was a District manager of a large retail chain. One of the things that we saw from people we hired is that they would bring experience from another retail business but some of it was WRONG. The new associates had to be taught to FORGET the wrong stuff before they could learn the RIGHT stuff.
In that reality, it was better to know nothing about retail sales than to incorporate the OLD WRONG stuff with the NEW RIGHT stuff.

Bible study for some people can be the same way.

Example...…..Verse 3 we see these words----"Because the end is close at hand".

Now some people will say that means Jesus is coming next week or next year. However that is not the way it is to be understood.

What it means in the CONTEXT of all the prophetic Scriptures is that WHEN those things begin to take place, they will move very quickly because there will be only 7 years until Armageddon.

Daniel 9:27 tells us...…………..
"And he (A/C) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

"COVENANT" here is a peace treaty.
"HE" in verse 27 is the coming Anti-Christ.
"ONE WEEK" here is Seven (7) Years.
"Even until the consummation" is Armageddon.

So then, and some have already said that they did not agree with a "GAP -Church Age" but right here we see that the coming A/C will make a peace treaty for 7 years between Israel and those at war with them.

I would suggest right here a good reading for CONTEXT would be Ezekiel 38. ……..

"And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee."

For there to be a PEACE TREATY there must 1st be a war/conflict. It seems to me that Ezekiel 38 is describing that very event to us.

The ABOMINATIONS are the judgments of God that will fall unto the people left on the Earth after the Catching Away. From the Catching Away to Armageddon is 7 years.

That...…..again means when the events start, they will move very fast.

When we watch the news today, we can see that "things" are indeed moving very fast right now.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Rodger,

4. Futurist.
This view sees most of the book, chapters 4 to the end as prophecy yet to be fulfilled. The Futurist view is the one I entertain. I have studied all the others, and the Futurist view is the one that fits together completely with no work or manipulations to make anything understandable.

The following Wiki article shows that the Futurist view was mainly initiated by two Jesuit Priests and this was to deflect attention away from the Reformation Protestants who claimed that the Catholic Church was the Little Horn Antichrist of Daniel 7.

"Two Catholic Jesuit writers, Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801) and Francisco Ribera (1537–1591), proposed the futurist view. Lacunza wrote under the pen name "Ben-Ezra", and his work was banned by the Catholic Church. Up until the 19th century, the futurist view was generally shunned by non-Catholics, being seen as a self-defense of the papacy against the claims of the historicist reformers.

"The futurist view has grown in popularity in the 19th and 20th centuries, and is currently followed by millions of Christians. However, while this interpretation is popular among U.S. Evangelicals, it is generally rejected by adherents of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, and Reformed Christianity."

I support the Continuous Historic view of Daniel and Revelation. I consider the Seals are judgements on the Pagan Roman Empire AD 96-312 the overthrow of the Pagan Roman Empire and its replacement by the corrupt Catholic Church under Constantine , the Trumpets are judgements from say AD 340 to AD 1789 the French Revolution, and the Vials are judgements on West and East from AD 1785 until the return of Christ. We are now in the 6th Vial period.

I consider that many Pentecostals and Evangelicals will oppose Christ when he returns, mainly because of their Futurist view and other associated ideas.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Rodger]

Greetings again Rodger,

The following Wiki article shows that the Futurist view was mainly initiated by two Jesuit Priests and this was to deflect attention away from the Reformation Protestants who claimed that the Catholic Church was the Little Horn Antichrist of Daniel 7.

"Two Catholic Jesuit writers, Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801) and Francisco Ribera (1537–1591), proposed the futurist view. Lacunza wrote under the pen name "Ben-Ezra", and his work was banned by the Catholic Church. Up until the 19th century, the futurist view was generally shunned by non-Catholics, being seen as a self-defense of the papacy against the claims of the historicist reformers.

"The futurist view has grown in popularity in the 19th and 20th centuries, and is currently followed by millions of Christians. However, while this interpretation is popular among U.S. Evangelicals, it is generally rejected by adherents of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, and Reformed Christianity."

I support the Continuous Historic view of Daniel and Revelation. I consider the Seals are judgements on the Pagan Roman Empire AD 96-312 the overthrow of the Pagan Roman Empire and its replacement by the corrupt Catholic Church under Constantine , the Trumpets are judgements from say AD 340 to AD 1789 the French Revolution, and the Vials are judgements on West and East from AD 1785 until the return of Christ. We are now in the 6th Vial period.

I consider that many Pentecostals and Evangelicals will oppose Christ when he returns, mainly because of their Futurist view and other associated ideas.

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor, while I appreciate your personal view, with all due respect, I do not agree with it.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Rodger,

while I appreciate your personal view, with all due respect, I do not agree with it.

I would be quite happy for you to proceed, but unless some of the things that you will state are in any way convincing to me then I will turn my attention elsewhere. What you seem to advocate represents that the last 2000 years are relatively silent concerning anticipated prophecy in these 2000 years and also there are no fulfilled prophecies in the same period.

I will leave you with one suggestion that I consider valid and it endorses my understanding of the Continuous Historic view. I consider that there is much figurative language in the Seals, Trumpet and Vials. One figure that I suggest is used is the concept that when a nation or Empire expands its territory by conquest, it is said to be in flood. The following is the example of the Assyrian Power:
Isaiah 8:6–8 (KJV): 6 Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah’s son; 7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: 8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

I believe that we are in the period of the 6th Vial, and the details of this period start with a similar figure, that of the drying up of a particular river.
Revelation 16:12 (KJV): And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
I consider this to represent the drying up of the Ottoman Empire especially as a result of the First World War, opening up the Holy Land for the return of the Jews and then the establishment of the Kingdom of God when Christ returns. The attached is a map of the Ottoman Empire in 1914 and its possession of the Euphrates River, which she was soon to lose.

I find great comfort in this, and also my particular understanding of the rest of the 6th Vial, especially the indication of the return of Christ in our present period of the 6th Vial.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[for_his_glory]

That act then has set in motion God's prophetic time clock. You see, we have been living in the Day of Grace or as some say, the Church Age which began when Jesus died and rose from the dead. God placed a "Time out" as you will or a GAP which is the time between the 69th and 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy.
(Read Daniel 9:23-27).

Messiah Jesus was "Cut Off" / Crucified exactly as Daniel said after the 62nd Week. So the SEVENTY WEEKS seen in Daniel 9:24 has not yet been lived hence the Church Age or Day of Grace we now live in. The EVENTS of Revelation 1:1 or the "Things" are then those events which will take place AFTER the 69th Week is completed which will actually be the 70th Week of Daniel.

I'm intrigued to see how this develops. I want to first touch on the 69 and 70 weeks.

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call The Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolation of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

 

[for_his_glory]

Daniel 9:27 tells us...…………..
"And he (A/C) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

"COVENANT" here is a peace treaty.
"HE" in verse 27 is the coming Anti-Christ.
"ONE WEEK" here is Seven (7) Years.
"Even until the consummation" is Armageddon.

Where in Daniel 9:27 does it speak of a seven year peace treaty? Here is my understanding.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

Daniel 9:27 shows us exactly when after the total of 69 weeks (483 days/483 prophetic years in the day as a year principle) Jesus was cut off, but not for Himself for He was cut off for us as He died for our sins. Note that it states that He, Jesus, caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease in the middle of the final week (7 years), which is 3.5 years of course. When Jesus, the Lamb of God, died on the cross, He became our one and final perfect sacrifice and put an end to the temple sacrifices. This was signified by the temple curtain being torn from top to bottom.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seventh trumpet, not a seven year tribulation, as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 1/2 years or 3 Times as the Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 1/2 years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

No where in scripture does it mention a seven year tribulation, but only seven trumpets of God's fierce wrath as scripture says we will always have tribulations as the last time will be such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, Matthew 24:21; Deut 4:30-31; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1 Samuel 26:24; Matthew; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6.

 

[Rodger]

Where in Daniel 9:27 does it speak of a seven year peace treaty? Here is my understanding.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

Daniel 9:27 shows us exactly when after the total of 69 weeks (483 days/483 prophetic years in the day as a year principle) Jesus was cut off, but not for Himself for He was cut off for us as He died for our sins. Note that it states that He, Jesus, caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease in the middle of the final week (7 years), which is 3.5 years of course. When Jesus, the Lamb of God, died on the cross, He became our one and final perfect sacrifice and put an end to the temple sacrifices. This was signified by the temple curtain being torn from top to bottom.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seventh trumpet, not a seven year tribulation, as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 1/2 years or 3 Times as the Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 1/2 years.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

No where in scripture does it mention a seven year tribulation, but only seven trumpets of God's fierce wrath as scripture says we will always have tribulations as the last time will be such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, Matthew 24:21; Deut 4:30-31; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1 Samuel 26:24; Matthew; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6.

You are correct. There is NO "Specific" phrase of a Seven Year Tribulation Peroid. However, there is also no SPECIFIC word of TRINITY either. They both come from Implied Truth.

In Daniel 9:26 & 27 God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. The “sevens” are groups of years, so 70 sevens is 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 “weeks” of years.)

In Daniel 9:25 and 26, the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total sevens), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens (483 years) after the decree to rebuild is issued, the Messiah will die. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology, have the above understanding of Daniel’s 70 sevens.

God said that 70 weeks had been determined (490 years), but, with the death of the Messiah, we only have 69 weeks accounted for (483 years). This leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy” (Daniel 9:24). This final seven-year period is what we call the tribulation—the time when God finishes judging Israel and brings them back to Himself.

 

[Rodger]

Greetings again Rodger,

I would be quite happy for you to proceed, but unless some of the things that you will state are in any way convincing to me then I will turn my attention elsewhere. What you seem to advocate represents that the last 2000 years are relatively silent concerning anticipated prophecy in these 2000 years and also there are no fulfilled prophecies in the same period.

I will leave you with one suggestion that I consider valid and it endorses my understanding of the Continuous Historic view. I consider that there is much figurative language in the Seals, Trumpet and Vials. One figure that I suggest is used is the concept that when a nation or Empire expands its territory by conquest, it is said to be in flood. The following is the example of the Assyrian Power:
Isaiah 8:6–8 (KJV): 6 Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah’s son; 7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: 8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

I believe that we are in the period of the 6th Vial, and the details of this period start with a similar figure, that of the drying up of a particular river.
Revelation 16:12 (KJV): And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
I consider this to represent the drying up of the Ottoman Empire especially as a result of the First World War, opening up the Holy Land for the return of the Jews and then the establishment of the Kingdom of God when Christ returns. The attached is a map of the Ottoman Empire in 1914 and its possession of the Euphrates River, which she was soon to lose.

I find great comfort in this, and also my particular understanding of the rest of the 6th Vial, especially the indication of the return of Christ in our present period of the 6th Vial.

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor.....I have never in 50 years ever taught the Bible to impress anyone or to in some way have you turn your attention to or from anything.

I teach the Bible as it is to those who want to learn and grow. If that is you then wonderful, but do not in anyway think that I will teach anything other than the Word of God. If you do not like what is taught.......
then by all means, have a great day my friend!

 

[kbmonday]

Show anywhere in scripture where there is a parenthetical pause in prophetic timing. Personally I think it is more likely a cyclical 70 weeks, with us being in the second 70. But that's just me.

 

[Rodger]

Revelation 1:4...………….
"John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne".

John is addressing Seven local churches in Asia Minor or our present day Turkey.

Allow me to call your attention to the number Seven. Seven stands for "Complete". The number Seven has to do with God's covenant and dealings with Israel. The Sabbath, circumcision and worship are all hinged around the SEVENTH Day.

Some examples are...…….

1). Jericho was marched around SEVEN times.
2). Naaman was dipped in the Jordan River SEVEN times.
3). In Joseph's day, there was SEVEN years of plenty and SEVEN years of famine.
4). Nebuchadnezzar was insane for SEVEN years.
5). There are SEVEN Beatitudes in the New Test.
6). There are SEVEN petitions in the Lord's prayer.
7). There are SEVEN parabels in Matthew 13.
8). SEVEN loaves of bread fed the multitude.
9). Jesus spoke SEVEN times from the cross.
10).There are SEVEN Spirits.
11). SEVEN stars.
12).SEVEN candlesticks.
13).SEVEN Trumpets judgments.
14).SEVEN Bowl judgments.
15). SEVEN days in a week.
16).SEVEN basis colors.
17). SEVEN basic musical notes.
18).The cells in our bodies changes every SEVEN years.

IMO, the number SEVEN in the Revelation can not be ignored or thought to be an accident or coincidence. It is one of the KEYS to understanding the symbols contained in the book and if you miss that, you will come up with the wrong understanding.

So then, we see here in the 4th verse, SEVEN churches. That means the SEVEN churches are "Inclusive" of all churches.

John says...……"Grace be unto you and peace".

Peace flows from grace and grace is the source of all our blessings from God today. The Revelation reveals the grace of God and also peace from God.
That means we do not need neither should we be frightened as you read and study this book. We can and should have the peace of God in our hearts.

Then notice that the information is ……….
"From Him, and from the SEVEN Spirits. That brings the Trinity before us.

The..."SEVEN SPIRITS" refers to the Holy Spirit and IMO it also refers to the SEVEN branches of the Lampstand that was in the Tabernacle. More on that when we get to it.

Then we see...………"Which is, and which was and which is to come".

That emphasizes the eternity and immutability of God. Notice.

Notice now the mention of each member of the Trinity.
1). In the next verse #5 is Jesus Christ who is God the Son.
2). The "SEVEN Spirits is God the Holy Spirit.
3). "Him which is and which was and which is to come refers to God the Father.

 

[Rodger]

Show anywhere in scripture where there is a parenthetical pause in prophetic timing. Personally I think it is more likely a cyclical 70 weeks, with us being in the second 70. But that's just me.

I think that we can all agree that God said that 70 weeks had been determined which is 490 years.

I think that we ccn all then agree that with the death of the Messiah, we only have 69 weeks accounted for which is 483 years.

This leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy” (Daniel 9:24).

We know that the Messiah did not finish the transgression, and He did not put an end to sin and He did not bring in everlasting righteousness.

So then, This final seven-year period is what we call the tribulation—the time when God finishes judging Israel and brings them back to Himself.

I or no one else make "make" you or anyone else accept those Biblical facts.

 

[kbmonday]

I think that we can all agree that God said that 70 weeks had been determined which is 490 years.

I think that we ccn all then agree that with the death of the Messiah, we only have 69 weeks accounted for which is 483 years.

This leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy” (Daniel 9:24).

We know that the Messiah did not finish the transgression, and He did not put an end to sin and He did not bring in everlasting righteousness.

So then, This final seven-year period is what we call the tribulation—the time when God finishes judging Israel and brings them back to Himself.

I or no one else make "make" you or anyone else accept those Biblical facts.

An interpretation is not 'fact'. I believe in scripture, it is THE truth. But the very ones who taught others Messianic scriptures missed Jesus themselves. I will not totally discount the parenthetical idea, I just haven't seen support in scripture. The destruction of the temple was the end of that 70 week period. The second 70 weeks started with the decree of Sultan Suleiman around 1537 to rebuild Jerusalem, specifically the plaza and mote. I think this applies twice, just as the coming of Messiah applies twice. Remember even the disciples thought Jesus would fulfill all of the Messianic promises in His first coming as well, yet that was untrue. The decree is in
Daniel 9:24-26 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Remember, we should be watching always, but prophecy may not unfold as our traditions say, nor as we think they will. I could be wrong, but I could be right brother.

 

[for_his_glory]

1. The 1260 Years Begin with the Implementation of Emperor Justinian's Decree

Justinian's Decree of the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Church could actually be implemented, beginning the prophetic 1260 years of temporal rule by the papacy.

Pope Pius IX gave this remarkable testimony:

"It is, therefore, by a particular decree of Divine Providence that, at the fall of the Roman Empire and its partition into separate kingdoms, the Roman Pontiff, whom Christ made the head and center of his entire Church, acquired civil power." − Pius IX, Apostolic Letter Cum Catholica Ecclesia, March 26, 1860.

2. The 1260 Years End with a Head Wound to Papal Power

The "head wound" to papal power was inflicted in 1798 when General Berthier of France captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799.

3. Wound Heals and Papal Power is Restored

Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican (a church), has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.


TIME, TIMES AND A HALF

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Prophecy of coming Messiah)

A Day Equals One Year

The 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24, however, establishes a principle related to prophetic time that few completely understand. Virtually everyone acknowledges that the 70 weeks are not literally 70 weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years, or 490 years. The principle is that in Bible prophecy, you must substitute a period of a year in place of a day. This is the day=year principle. This equation is clearly established in scripture-

Num 14:34 after the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

In this verse, a relationship between day and year is clear, each day will equate to a literal year. For the forty days that Israel spied in Canaan in unbelief, they would be punished by wandering forty years in the desert.

Ezek 4:6 and when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Here again, the equation is stated quite openly, a prophetic day represents a literal year. So to return to the 70 weeks of Daniel, you must first determine the number of days represented. Seventy weeks is 70 x 7 or 490 days, which will then equate to a literal 490 years in the fulfillment of the prophecy.

The Lunar Calendar

So now to apply this formula to the 3 1/2 times we must first establish just exactly how many days this represents. The Jews did not use a solar calendar as we do today, they used instead a lunar calendar, as indicated in Psalms-

Psalms 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.

The length of the lunar month can be determined from Genesis

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:24 and the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:4 and the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Note that the there were exactly 5 months from the point where the flood began and the ark came to rest on Ararat, and that this was a period of 150 days. This demonstrates that the lunar calendar set forth in the Bible has a 30 day month; therefore the year is counted as 360 days. (This 360 day lunar year also accounts for the reason that there are 360 degrees in the compass).

The 1260 Days

Returning to the 3 1/2 times, which we now know represents 3 1/2 lunar years of 360 days each, using the same methodology as is used for the 70 weeks of Daniel we calculate it to actually represent 1260 literal years. So, Time, Times and half a Time in prophecy is really 1260 years! To confirm this formula we need only to look to the 12th chapter of the book of Revelation-

Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Here the woman represents the faithful church, which flees into the wilderness for 1260 days. Again using the day=year formula, this actually speaks of 1260 years that the church would be persecuted. Now look at this next verse from the same chapter-

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Here the exact same time of persecution is referred to as 3 1/2 times, again meaning the same period of 1260 days/years as found in verse 6. In the book of Daniel, this exact same period of persecution in church history is found-

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This verse in context is referring to a period of time that the little horn or antichrist will persecute the true believers or true church, again for 1260 years. The same is true for this next verse-

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The 42 Months

This same period of persecution is found in the following verses-

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Again as in Rev 12, we have a strong relationship between these 42 months of verse 2 and the 1260 days of Rev 11: 3. Forty two months calculates as 42 x 30 (30 days in a lunar month) which equals 1260 days/years. This verse is saying that the Gentiles or unbelievers would trample the people of God (the holy city) for 1260 years. Again this same time period of 42 months is found in Revelation 13-

Rev 13:5 and there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 and it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This passage speaks of the great and terrible beast from the sea, which actually is the same as the little horn of Daniel, which is to say the antichrist power that would persecute the people of God for 1260 years.

So, here is a complete listing of the passages that deal with the same 1260 year time period of persecution-

* 3 1/2 Times - Rev 12:14, Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7
* 1260 days - Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6
* 42 Months - Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5