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Bible Study The Revelation, a verse by verse systematic study

kbmonday said:
An interpretation is not 'fact'. I believe in scripture, it is THE truth. But the very ones who taught others Messianic scriptures missed Jesus themselves. I will not totally discount the parenthetical idea, I just haven't seen support in scripture. The destruction of the temple was the end of that 70 week period. The second 70 weeks started with the decree of Sultan Suleiman around 1537 to rebuild Jerusalem, specifically the plaza and mote. I think this applies twice, just as the coming of Messiah applies twice. Remember even the disciples thought Jesus would fulfill all of the Messianic promises in His first coming as well, yet that was untrue. The decree is in
Daniel 9:24-26 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Remember, we should be watching always, but prophecy may not unfold as our traditions say, nor as we think they will. I could be wrong, but I could be right brother.
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Again, I do not agree. I did not start this study to argue these points. I hope you follow along, but I will not debate. Explain, yes...debate...NO.
 
for_his_glory said:
1. The 1260 Years Begin with the Implementation of Emperor Justinian's Decree

Justinian's Decree of the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Church could actually be implemented, beginning the prophetic 1260 years of temporal rule by the papacy.

Pope Pius IX gave this remarkable testimony:

"It is, therefore, by a particular decree of Divine Providence that, at the fall of the Roman Empire and its partition into separate kingdoms, the Roman Pontiff, whom Christ made the head and center of his entire Church, acquired civil power." − Pius IX, Apostolic Letter Cum Catholica Ecclesia, March 26, 1860.

2. The 1260 Years End with a Head Wound to Papal Power

The "head wound" to papal power was inflicted in 1798 when General Berthier of France captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799.

3. Wound Heals and Papal Power is Restored

Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy, its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican (a church), has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.


TIME, TIMES AND A HALF

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Prophecy of coming Messiah)

A Day Equals One Year

The 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24, however, establishes a principle related to prophetic time that few completely understand. Virtually everyone acknowledges that the 70 weeks are not literally 70 weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years, or 490 years. The principle is that in Bible prophecy, you must substitute a period of a year in place of a day. This is the day=year principle. This equation is clearly established in scripture-

Num 14:34 after the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

In this verse, a relationship between day and year is clear, each day will equate to a literal year. For the forty days that Israel spied in Canaan in unbelief, they would be punished by wandering forty years in the desert.

Ezek 4:6 and when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Here again, the equation is stated quite openly, a prophetic day represents a literal year. So to return to the 70 weeks of Daniel, you must first determine the number of days represented. Seventy weeks is 70 x 7 or 490 days, which will then equate to a literal 490 years in the fulfillment of the prophecy.

The Lunar Calendar

So now to apply this formula to the 3 1/2 times we must first establish just exactly how many days this represents. The Jews did not use a solar calendar as we do today, they used instead a lunar calendar, as indicated in Psalms-

Psalms 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.

The length of the lunar month can be determined from Genesis

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:24 and the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:4 and the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Note that the there were exactly 5 months from the point where the flood began and the ark came to rest on Ararat, and that this was a period of 150 days. This demonstrates that the lunar calendar set forth in the Bible has a 30 day month; therefore the year is counted as 360 days. (This 360 day lunar year also accounts for the reason that there are 360 degrees in the compass).

The 1260 Days

Returning to the 3 1/2 times, which we now know represents 3 1/2 lunar years of 360 days each, using the same methodology as is used for the 70 weeks of Daniel we calculate it to actually represent 1260 literal years. So, Time, Times and half a Time in prophecy is really 1260 years! To confirm this formula we need only to look to the 12th chapter of the book of Revelation-

Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Here the woman represents the faithful church, which flees into the wilderness for 1260 days. Again using the day=year formula, this actually speaks of 1260 years that the church would be persecuted. Now look at this next verse from the same chapter-

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Here the exact same time of persecution is referred to as 3 1/2 times, again meaning the same period of 1260 days/years as found in verse 6. In the book of Daniel, this exact same period of persecution in church history is found-

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This verse in context is referring to a period of time that the little horn or antichrist will persecute the true believers or true church, again for 1260 years. The same is true for this next verse-

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The 42 Months

This same period of persecution is found in the following verses-

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Again as in Rev 12, we have a strong relationship between these 42 months of verse 2 and the 1260 days of Rev 11: 3. Forty two months calculates as 42 x 30 (30 days in a lunar month) which equals 1260 days/years. This verse is saying that the Gentiles or unbelievers would trample the people of God (the holy city) for 1260 years. Again this same time period of 42 months is found in Revelation 13-

Rev 13:5 and there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 and it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This passage speaks of the great and terrible beast from the sea, which actually is the same as the little horn of Daniel, which is to say the antichrist power that would persecute the people of God for 1260 years.

So, here is a complete listing of the passages that deal with the same 1260 year time period of persecution-

* 3 1/2 Times - Rev 12:14, Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7
* 1260 days - Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6
* 42 Months - Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5
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Nope!.

Way to loong of a post!
 
for_his_glory said:
Sorry you do not want to learn about TIME, TIMES AND A HALF. You have a good day.
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I'm glad you responded. I had forgotten to unwatch this 'conversation', which is not that at all but instead just preaching an individuals learned manmade tradition. He's got his soapbox, but this will be my last message here. I just forgot to unwatch it.
 
kbmonday said:
I'm glad you responded. I had forgotten to unwatch this 'conversation', which is not that at all but instead just preaching an individuals learned manmade tradition. He's got his soapbox, but this will be my last message here. I just forgot to unwatch it.
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I know you did not start this thread but we all need to be mindful for when one starts a thread it is opened to discussions between all of us and not just the one who started the thread. To all there is no soapbox preaching, but to give what you understand and be opened to discuss it with others.

God bless and have a great day :)
 
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for_his_glory said:
I know you did not start this thread but we all need to be mindful for when one starts a thread it is opened to discussions between all of us and not just the one who started the thread. To all there is no soapbox preaching, but to give what you understand and be opened to discuss it with others.

God bless and have a great day :)
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God bless and keep you brother.
 
Rodger said:
My dear friend. I did not say that I did not what to learn. Why would I need to learn something that I am already very familier with, Biblically.
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Well, hopefully others will gain knowledge by what I posted. You have a good day :)
 
Revelation 1:5-6
"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

In these two verses we have the titles which are given to the Lord Jesus Christ and notice that there are SEVEN titles. SEVEN (7) is the Bible number for "complete".

1.
"Faithful Witness"------Jesus Christ is the only trustworthy witness to the facts of this book we call the Bible. The facts are about Him. He testifies of Himself.

2.
"First begotten of the dead"------"Firstborn" has to do with resurrection. He is the first to rise from the dead, never to die again. So then, death was a womb which bore Him. He came out of death into life. No one else has come that route yet. However, we who believe him are going to follow Him in resurrection power.

3.
"The Prince (Ruler) of the kings of the earth"----------This title refers to His position during His 1000 year rule that we call the Millennium.

Philippians 2:9-11 validate that fact...…..
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father."

4.
"Unto Him that loved us"----------That is the PRESENT tense and tells us of His attitude toward us, His own. Jesus did not just love us when He died for us.
He loved us before the Creation was ever done.

5.
"Washed (Loosed) us from our sins in His own blood"------------The blood of Jesus is not a symbol in the book of the Revelation. There are many symbolism in the book, but this is NOT one of them. ALL of the Old Testament sacrifices of animals, and all of the blood they shed was a shadow of what was coming. They were NOT the real thing...……..But the blood of Jesus IS THE REAL THING. It is what the animal sacrifice were pointing to all the way back to Adam and Eve when Jesus killed animals to obtain a covering for the sin of Adam and Eve.

1 Peter 1:18-19...…
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot".

6.
"And he hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father"...…………...Believers are never called KINGS. They are a kingdom of priests and in that sense will rule with Christ.
Jesus comes again as the BRIDEGROOM for His bride which is the company of born again believers. He comes as the lover of our spirits.

7.
"To Him the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. AMEN."-------------- "Forever and forever" can be translated literally as, "Ages of the Ages".
That emphasizes eternity. Christ is the AMEN. That is a title. Jesus Christ is both the subject and the object of the Revelation. HE is the mover of all events and because of that, THERE IS NO SUCH THIN AS A COINSIDENCE.

Jesus is the agent of creation. All things were made by Him, for Him and the universe exists for Him.

Colossians 1:16-17...…….
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
 
Revelation 1:7 ......….
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This verse flashes forward to the 2nd Coming of Christ at Armageddon.

"Every eye shall see Him" is made possible today by world wide tele-communications. Orbiting satellites and computers has made this possible today as never before.

"Clouds" =

Daniels 7:13.....
"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."

Jude 14...…….
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,”

Hebrews 12:1...…..
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,"

"Which pierced Him" = Israel as a nation.

Zech. 12:8-14...……..
"I, God, will begin by restoring the common households of Judah so that the glory of David’s family and the leaders in Jerusalem won’t overshadow the ordinary people in Judah. On the Big Day, I’ll look after everyone who lives in Jerusalem so that the lowliest, weakest person will be as glorious as David and the family of David itself will be godlike, like the Angel of God leading the people.
“On the Big Day, I’ll make a clean sweep of all the godless nations that fought against Jerusalem.

“Next I’ll deal with the family of David and those who live in Jerusalem. I’ll pour a spirit of grace and prayer over them. They’ll then be able to recognize me as the One they so grievously wounded—that piercing spear-thrust! And they’ll weep—oh, how they’ll weep! Deep mourning as of a parent grieving the loss of the firstborn child. The lamentation in Jerusalem that day will be massive, as famous as the lamentation over Hadad-Rimmon on the fields of Megiddo:

Everyone will weep and grieve,
the land and everyone in it:
The family of David off by itself
and their women off by themselves;
The family of Nathan off by itself
and their women off by themselves;
The family of Levi off by itself
and their women off by themselves;
The family of Shimei off by itself
and their women off by themselves;
And all the rest of the families off by themselves
and their women off by themselves.”

Revelation 1:8...…………..

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Here Christ proclaims Himself to be the Alpha and Omega.

Those are the 1st and last letters of the Greek alphabet.

So He is telling us that He is the beginning and the end. All things began with Him and all things will end with Him.
He - Christ is the agent/person of Creation. Jesus Christ is the one who created all things and all things were created for Him and by Him.

Then after this He says that He is the "ALMIGHTY". That is a name that is used in connection with the Father....48 times in the Old Testament. Christ and the Father are truly ONE in the same.
(John 10:38.....14:8-11 and 17:21).
 
Continuing we see in Revelation 1:9...…….
"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

This verse tells us several things.

1). First it confirms that John is the author.

2). Second it tells us that he is our brother in the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.

3). Third, we understand that he is on the island of Patmos.

4). Then fourth, we see that he is in "trouble".

The "trouble" we see here is NOT the Great Tribulation which is yet to come. He is referring to the persecution that was already befalling believers in his day.

John was exiled to Patmos from 86 AD to 96 AD and it was there on a rocky, volcanic, lonely island that God gave him this great vision when he unlocked the book of Daniel.

What that means is that God can and will speak to us when He chooses, no matter where we are.
 
Obviously, there seems to be no interest in this study. That being the case, I am going to suspend this as it takes too much time for no return.
 
Rodger

You have had 559 views not knowing if all have read your long postings or not, but yet telling me you refuse to read my post #20 because it was to long, but yet very relevant to the OP. All your postings in this thread are very long and you expect all to read them. You have also been involved with five of us that have replied so far, not really being interested in discussing with us, seeming to only use this forum for a soapbox.

Word of advice and not coming against you by any means, when making so many post as now we are on page to with very little interaction from you discussing anything with others, it is best to make an OP and wait for any responses as no one is going to read through two pages of your postings as there is to much to address.

God bless :)
 
Rodger said:
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
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Amen.

However we can know the season because of the signs He gave for us to watch for.

The key is to watch.

The Day of the LORD will not come as a thief in the night for the watching Christian.


But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:4



JLB
 
for_his_glory said:
Rodger

You have had 559 views not knowing if all have read your long postings or not, but yet telling me you refuse to read my post #20 because it was to long, but yet very relevant to the OP. All your postings in this thread are very long and you expect all to read them. You have also been involved with five of us that have replied so far, not really being interested in discussing with us, seeming to only use this forum for a soapbox.

Word of advice and not coming against you by any means, when making so many post as now we are on page to with very little interaction from you discussing anything with others, it is best to make an OP and wait for any responses as no one is going to read through two pages of your postings as there is to much to address.

God bless :)
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I am not sure how to resond to your post. I have had NO questions asked of my postings and the one from you was answered with....."I do not agree with you".

Someone posted......."I agree with Trevor on this and do not believe in the parenthetical gap."

To that I responded..."It is called the church age".

YOUR post seemed to me to be an attempt to highjack the thread because your post was so convoluted and just all over the place.

"Systamatic", which is the method I use means an "orderly process of information. By posting the way I have been it allow the person reading it to absorb all of the ramifications of the said Scripture which then allow for context to be applied.

Your "long" post did not addrees anything in the Scripture I used but instead went off on your own tangent.

Thank you for your help!
 
Rodger

I am sorry you feel this way and in no way was I trying to hijack this thread as I was only trying to encourage you to post a little at a time instead of so many postings and wait until you got any responses in order to discuss and then post more. Like I said, you had 559 views and that in its self should show you that even if they do not reply at least the possibility is that they are reading them. I've made many post that have been viewed, but no replies and that's just fine with me.

BTW, you said my replies were to long for you to read, but yet your postings are very long. If you are not going to read what others post in hopes of having a good discussion that deals with what you have written, then do not expect others to read your long ones. Nothing against you, but just saying.
 
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