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The Seal of God and the Mark of the beast.

Let's have some dialog as to what you think the Mark or Seal is? It seems that God's people have a Seal in their forehead and right arm, and yet the ungodly have a Mark in their forehead and right arm.
 
Revelation is ripe with OT theology and imagery. I feel the "mark" of this beast may be a counterfeit of this:

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

I haven't given much thought to why Revelation keys in on the right arm. :chin
 
Vic C. said:
Revelation is ripe with OT theology and imagery. I feel the "mark" of this beast may be a counterfeit of this:

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

I haven't given much thought to why Revelation keys in on the right arm. :chin

If it counterfits anything im thinking this......

15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
 
Vic C. said:
Revelation is ripe with OT theology and imagery. I feel the "mark" of this beast may be a counterfeit of this:

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

I haven't given much thought to why Revelation keys in on the right arm. :chin
The bible repeatedly speaks of right arm works. I presume that right hand or arm has to do with works. The things we do. Our brain is between our eyes, and so it must be what we think. But what could be the mark of the beast (nation,) where people cannot buy, sell, or trade without it?
 
Since Rev.9 mentions God's sealing in the forehead of His servants also, that lets us know the mark of the beast is especially a spiritual mark in the mind. On the right hand does represents doing its works.

Compare God's sealing with those of Ezekiel 9.

Do I believe a false one will come and setup a beast image for all to bow to, like what the king of Babylon did in Daniel's days? (see end of Rev.13). Yes. And there we're warned about a connection with buying and selling also.
 
veteran said:
Since Rev.9 mentions God's sealing in the forehead of His servants also, that lets us know the mark of the beast is especially a spiritual mark in the mind. On the right hand does represents doing its works.

Compare God's sealing with those of Ezekiel 9.

Do I believe a false one will come and setup a beast image for all to bow to, like what the king of Babylon did in Daniel's days? (see end of Rev.13). Yes. And there we're warned about a connection with buying and selling also.
Ezekiel 9:3. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."

5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark.
God commands the man in linen to mark or seal some of the people. Revelation 9:4. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,...
 
There seems to be two different marks; those who are Gods people, and those who are not. I noticed in scripture that those who are not by the fact of material wealth, paganism, and immorality. So who is the riches church with forms of Paganism, and noticeably have problems with sexual immorality?
 
jasoncran said:
maybe its the new id system that uses trackers like the ones put in dogs, and store medical and id info.
I have given that some thought also. Perhaps history will repeat it's self, but this time in a modern way. The Beast out of the Earth
Revelation 13:11.
Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
The nation that rises up out of the earth (ALSO) causes people to receive a mark.
 
Some things to ponder:

When are believers sealed? Can a believer be unsealed? If a believer cannot be unsealed, can they assume the mark? Is this mark for us, or was it for some other generation?

I'm not condoning one position over another. I'm just thinking out loud. I don't know; maybe Luther was right. :chin
 
i'm a pretribber and i approach that from that view still we should be watching after all we like to fear monger and spread paranoia :shades
 
:biglol

I fear (awe) only the Lord.

Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. :yes
 
jasoncran said:
i'm a pretribber and i approach that from that view still we should be watching after all we like to fear monger and spread paranoia :shades

I agree, i will not have to make that decision... but if i didnt know how to stand on the word, and the promisies of God, and i didnt know that the righteous will never be forsaken and His seed doesnt have to beg for bread, and all the heavenly manna had ran out. then i beleive the decision should be pretty easy. suffer for a short time and spend eternity in heaven.
 
1 Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

:amen
 
If the day should come that you can not buy sell or trade without some kind of Id, then I would say that is it! Any notion that we had to the contrary will obviously will have been wrong. When people have to answer to the government for every transaction in life, then you have become nothing more than a product. That is what we do to our ranch animals is mark them like a product.
 
you are right when you say that a mark on the right hand signifies an action and forehead means in the mind. bible prophecy is written in code so that only those who seek truth will find it. there is a website that explains everything so perfectly and is biblically sound. most of us have already taken the mark, but it has not yet been enforced. the 4th commandment is to honor the sabbath day, the one God most high set apart as holy, saturday. the catholic church changed it to sunday the first day as "a mark of their authority" in their own words. the 4th commandment contains God's seal, so of course satan would try to change anything to counterfeit and discredit God. only those who are faithful and keep ALL of God's 10 commandments will receive his seal. go to the website and check it out, it has changed my life and opened my eyes. the antichrist is already here, and we have all been deceived.
http://www.pacinst.com/nslaw/chapter1/sunday.html
 
klight said:
you are right when you say that a mark on the right hand signifies an action and forehead means in the mind. bible prophecy is written in code so that only those who seek truth will find it. there is a website that explains everything so perfectly and is biblically sound. most of us have already taken the mark, but it has not yet been enforced. the 4th commandment is to honor the sabbath day, the one God most high set apart as holy, saturday. the catholic church changed it to sunday the first day as "a mark of their authority" in their own words. the 4th commandment contains God's seal, so of course satan would try to change anything to counterfeit and discredit God. only those who are faithful and keep ALL of God's 10 commandments will receive his seal. go to the website and check it out, it has changed my life and opened my eyes. the antichrist is already here, and we have all been deceived.
http://www.pacinst.com/nslaw/chapter1/sunday.html

Can anyone keep all the 10 commandments?
I thought that was the reason Christ had to die... because we can't keep the law.
 
that has been a lie from satan as well, and people only look to Jesus instead of God. Jesus came to bring our focus back to God. God is the same yesterday today and forever. Jesus was a man so that he could be our example. he struggled with everything we do, and yet he did not disobey God. satan tells us it is impossible, but we must follow in the footsteps of Jesus. if God said to obey Him then, why dont we do it today? Jesus came to forgive our sins thru grace, but NEVER ONCE did he tell us he came so that we no longer had to obey God. and the Bible makes it very clear that if you break one commandment you break them all. it also makes it very clear, even from Jesus himself (so we know that we are still required to obey and Jesus did not change that) that if we do not obey God then we will not enter heaven.

Christ came to remove sin, not excuse sin…

I recently had a conversation with a church going woman, who was a leader in her church. It was about complete obedience to God and what He commands of us. However, she had a hard time agreeing with it on account of Jesus Christ. And then I realized, we have the wrong image of Christ and why He came. We have lost sight of it, and have turned it around to use Him for our own purpose, to excuse our sins in our minds instead of completely turning away from it, and consequently our hearts have become hard. So many of us worship Christ alone, failing to see God’s plan of why Christ came. God is the Father, and Christ His Son, they are the trinity with the Spirit, three in one. I will not deny that, because it is scriptural. However, Jesus himself makes it very clear several times that He had to submit to God.
“My Father has given me authority over everything,†Matthew 12:27
“My Father… your will be done,†Matthew 26:42
“What happens to me will be a sign that God has sent me, the Son of Man, to these people,†Luke 11:30
“I assure you, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son, and tells him everything he is doing…â€
“26The Father has life in himself, and he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge all mankind because he is the Son of Man. 30But I do nothing without consulting the Father. I judge as I am told. And my judgment is absolutely just, because it is according to the will of God who sent me; it is not merely my own,†John 5:26-27, 30
“…They (miracles) have been assigned to me by the Father, and they testify that the Father sent me,†John 5:36
“For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do what I want,†John 5:38
“I am not teaching my own ideas, but those of God who sent me,†John 7:16

That does not mean they are not equal, it means God the father is in higher rank than the son. Jesus sits at the right hand of God. God is a God of order, just like the world was set up with order from the creation of Adam and Eve, there was rank AND equality. But Christ had to submit His will to God, who, though equal, is higher in rank. Order. But it is as if believers today totally forget God, and focus on Christ, when Christ’s whole purpose on earth was to bring our focus back to God, so that we can be made clean before God, and approach Him boldly. Christ’s purpose was to become our high priest, to make us blameless before the Father (Hebrews chapter 7-10). He is the one that takes us to the Father, “…No one can come to the Father except through Me,†John 14:6. we are not perfect, and God can not look upon sin. so because we are born in sin, Christ died so that he could take it away and we could then approach God in obedience. But God himself says, “I am the same yesterday, today and forever.†So why are we not worshipping the one true God? Why have we put our focus solely on Christ? Christ came and died because we are not perfect. He never once told us He came so we can stop obeying God. Rather, He was pointing us back to God, by removing the veil between God and us. Yet, we excuse ourselves and our sins over and over again on the account of Christ, Justifying it in our minds that we do not have to obey anymore because Christ came to take away our imperfections, and that is all we need to approach God. But in doing so, our hearts have fallen away from God. We must come back to God – THROUGH Jesus – but still return to God and what he commands of us. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, so what He commanded us to obey then still stands today. His laws still stand. “Man can not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God,†Matthew 4:4. Well the Bible was inspired by God, but what came directly from God himself? What was written directly by Him? The Ten Commandments. Those are God’s laws. The Bible says that even the new heaven and earth will be based on them; they are His covenant, and his covenant lasts forever, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Christ says he came to fulfill the law, Gods covenant. But it could not be fulfilled because of our imperfections. So Christ came to take away our imperfections so that the covenant can be fulfilled, God’s Law. But He did not take away the Law. We must still obey every word of it!
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the Law of Moses…. No I came to fulfill them,†Matthew 5:17.
“But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached…. But that does not mean that the law has lost its force in even the smallest point. It is stronger and more permanent than heaven and earth.†Luke 16:16, 17
So even though Jesus came, that does not mean we can toss out the law! And He is not talking about the ceremonial or health laws in Moses laws; he is talking specifically about the Commandments of God, the Law of God. Only through the grace of Christ can we do so! Jesus says over and over again that no man will enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he OBEYS him. Not just accepts salvation and continues to sin, which is disobedience.
“…you can receive eternal life if you keep the commandments,†Matthew 19:17

We can not excuse our sin on account of Christ. If we continue to sin, saying that Christ will forgive us, we are deliberately sinning, and therefore blaspheming the Spirit, as discussed before. And because we are no longer obeying God, and what God spoke through Christ, we will not enter heaven.
“29We must obey God rather than human authority. 31Then God put him (Jesus) in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior. He did this to give the people of Israel an opportunity to turn from their sins AND TURN TO GOD so their sins would be forgiven. 32 We are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who OBEY him,†Acts 5:29, 31-32

The woman told me that I was making this into a debate, but I told her how can what God says be debatable? If he says to obey Him, how can you say otherwise on account of Christ? You are missing the reason why He came, and are blaspheming His name! What are the Ten Commandments? What is it we must obey after we have received salvation through Christ? It is not by obeying these commandments alone that will save us, because the Lord gave them to His people as His covenant, yet His covenant still needed to be fulfilled. “This is my blood, poured out for many, sealing the New Covenant between God and his people,†Mark 14:24. We also need Christ to be saved. But neither can we rely solely on claiming salvation through Christ to save us, for He calls us also to obey. It is all through out scripture, how many times will He tell us?
1. “Honor the Lord your God, worship Him onlyâ€
Do we honor God by the way we live, speak, or think? If we do not, we are not obeying Him, and will not inherit heaven.
2. “Do not have any idols before me…. You must never worship or bow down to them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God who will not share your affection with any other god! …I lavish my love on those who love me and OBEY my commands…â€
How many of us put television, music, friends, partying, even our career, etc ahead of the Almighty Lord and obeying him? How many of us sit in front of a TV set for hours upon hours, watching nothing but people breaking God’s laws, and calling it entertainment?
3. “Do not misuse the name of the Lord your God. The Lord will not let you go unpunished if you misuse his name.â€
How many of us swear by the Lord, or say “oh my God†or “I swear to God�
4. Remember to keep the Sabbath Day holy. Six days a week are set apart for your daily duties and regular work, but the SEVENTH day is a day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God… the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.â€
Saturday is the Sabbath day, the day God set apart as holy, NOT SUNDAY!!! Sunday is the first day of the week, the day that was dedicated to worship of the sun god. The Catholic Church changed this (“and he will change God’s times and laws†Daniel 7:25). If you seek the truth and want your eyes opened, please click this link and read all 4 chapters. They are long, but THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!! We must obey God in EVERYTHING He says wholeheartedly, we cannot obey some and not all of His commandments. We will not enter heaven! This is your soul, your very life. Do not be lazy about taking action… once your time is up, can you ever go back to right your wrongs?

“3And why do you by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 8These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they replace God’s commands with their own man made teachings,†Matthew 15:3, 8-9. We violate God’s direct command to keep the Sabbath day, Saturday, and replace it with our own man made traditions with Sunday. If God set a specific day holy, who are we as mere men to change it?


5. “Honor your father and mother. Then you will live a long, full life in the land the Lord your God will give youâ€
6. “Do not murderâ€
7. “Do not commit adulteryâ€
8. “Do not stealâ€
9. “Do not testify falsely against your neighborâ€
10. “Do not covet your neighbor’s house. Do not covet your neighbors wife… or anything else he ownsâ€
Exodus 20:1-17

“But even more blessed are all who hear the word of God AND put it into practice,†Luke 11:28


He says to you, “Why do you call me Lord, when you won’t obey me?†Luke 7:46
“15If you love me, OBEY my commandments. 21Those who OBEY my commandments are the ones who love me, and because they love me, my Father will love them, and I will love them…23All those who love me will do what I say… ,†John 14:1
5, 21, 23

also, check out this link. it also explains the TRUTH of the Bible and God's word, and clears up the confusion of saved by grace or through works. many ministers today are ministers of satan, who is very clever, and we have all been deceived. open your eyes and see the truth!

http://www.pacinst.com/efh/chapter9/grace.html
 
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