• Love God, and love one another!

    Share your heart for Christ and others in Godly Love

    https://christianforums.net/forums/god_love/

  • Want to discuss private matters, or make a few friends?

    Ask for membership to the Men's or Lady's Locker Rooms

    For access, please contact a member of staff and they can add you in!

  • Wake up and smell the coffee!

    Join us for a little humor in Joy of the Lord

    https://christianforums.net/forums/humor_and_jokes/

  • Need prayer and encouragement?

    Come share your heart's concerns in the Prayer Forum

    https://christianforums.net/forums/prayer/

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes coming in the future!

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

The Sin Nature!

iLOVE

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
4,708
Reaction score
944
What exactly is the sin nature?

Can the sin nature reign in the life of a Believer?

Can Satan override the will of a Believer?

Romans 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
 
the sin as a whole is the causing/infliction of evil (to/on the neighbor/soul), but the spiritual iniquity is the primal sin, because it is the original sin, the very sin, and even the only one, for it is the cause of all other (possible) evils and iniquities, God is a Spirit, and His kingdom is basically Spiritual, the manifestation of the "darkness"(the "wicked one") is also a spirit, and its kingdom is essentially spiritual too, and the spiritual is (in) the base of all things in the universe, that's why there is talk of three main kinds of sin in the Bible(Exodus 34:6-7):

1. the "sin", which is the spiritual iniquity, in other words, the causing/infliction of harm/affliction to/on the neighbor in a spiritual/occult way

2. the "crime", which is the rest of the causing/infliction of harm/evil to/on the neighbor i.e. in all other possible ways

3. the "mistake", which is the self-inflicted harm/affliction

in the longest possible run/term (of the eternity), "sin" is also a "crime" and a "mistake", the "crime" is also a "mistake" but may not necessarily be a "sin", though it is a secondary "sin", and the "mistake" may not necessarily be a "sin" or/and a "crime" (e.g. on the part of the suicide that was completely irreligious and non-occult), though it is a secondary or/and tertiary "sin"

Blessings
 
What exactly is the sin nature?

Can the sin nature reign in the life of a Believer?

Can Satan override the will of a Believer?

Romans 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
This is the lounge so no scirpture - which is what I prefer anyway.

1. The Sin Nature is that natural nature in man that tends to make him lean toward evil. Man, naturally, is not good. This is why salvation is necessary. We are saved from different things, but the Sin Nature is one of them.
It's this nature that makes one sin. The sin nature is what was in the Tree of the Knowledge of God and Evil back in the Garden. This is a complicated subject matter and I won't get into it too much. But, yes, when Adam bit on the forbidden fruit, the sin nature entered into man and it's been here ever since. You will see in articles: sin and Sin. Sin (capital S) is always referring to the sin nature. Sins are the sins we commit every day and are a RESULT of the sin nature.

2. The sin nature remains even in a believer. But it cannot reign. Jesus died to put the dominion of the sin nature to death. Some on these threads will go so far as to say that the actual sin nature has been put to death, but then what is it that would make us sin? This could be studied further and should be. It's pivotal for understanding Christianity. So yes, it remains, but does not reign and its dominion has been put to death.

3. Satan can override the will of a believer. If he couldn't, we'd never sin! It's the WILL of a believer to never sin - so then how come we do? It's satan influencing the sin nature and our weakness (as a normal human being) to sometimes give in to temptation. Jesus is the only human being (His human part) who never caved to temptation. We're not Jesus. This is what the book of Romans is all about. When we sin, it's the flesh sinning and not our spirit. Our spirit is always directed toward God. This is a good reason why satan should not be taken lightly and should be respected - in the sense that he's strong and can always cause us to fail.

4. Romans 7:14 As above.
Check out: Romans 7:24-25 and
Romans 8:1-2

Conversion and freedom!

Wondering
 
What exactly is the sin nature?

Can the sin nature reign in the life of a Believer?

Can Satan override the will of a Believer?

Romans 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
How can a Believer have victory over the sin nature?
 
2. The sin nature remains even in a believer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" (2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB bold mine)

7The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ." (Romans 8:7-9 NASB)

The sin nature is the mind governed by the flesh. It is the old mind set on sin that we had before we were born again. Paul says if you still have the mind set on, and ruled by, the flesh--the sin nature--then you do not have the Holy Spirit and you do not belong to God. IOW, you are not born again.
 
Last edited:
How can a Believer have victory over the sin nature?
Be born again, receiving the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps what you want to discuss is how a believer can have victory over his flesh, where sinful desires come from, but which no longer controls the mind of the born again person, because he has a new mind, the mind of Christ that longs for and desires righteousness. The old mind that desired sinful satisfaction is gone for the Christian. Temptations to sin come from the body, not from an old mind set--an old nature--that he no longer has.
 
Last edited:
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" (2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB bold mine)

7The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ." (Romans 8:7-9 NASB)

The sin nature is the mind governed by the flesh. It is the old mind set on sin that we had before we were born again. Paul says if you still have the mind set on, and ruled by, the flesh--the sin nature--then you do not have the Holy Spirit and you do not belong to God. IOW, you are not born again.
I agree!

Wondering
 
Be born again, receiving the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps what you want to discuss is how a believer can have victory over his flesh, where sinful desires come from, but which no longer controls the mind of the born again person, because he has a new mind, the mind of Christ that longs for and desires righteousness. The old mind that desired sinful satisfaction is gone for the Christian. Temptations to sin come from the body, not from an old mind set--an old nature--that he no longer has.
Right Jethro.
Sinful satisfaction is gone for the Christian. In fact, we only feel satisfied when we are following Christ.
This reminds me of:
Romans 12:2
And HOW is the mind renewed? By prayer, by studying the Word, by attending church, by fellowshiping with other Christians and by following the advice of:
Philippians 4:8

Wondering
 
By Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

The sin nature is a result of the Fall. When the believing sinner comes to Christ, the sin nature is made ineffective (Rom. 6:6).

It will remain ineffective if the Believer maintains unceasing Faith in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14). If the Believer ceases to look to Christ and the Cross, but rather makes something else the object of his faith, no matter how good the something else might be, the Holy Spirit will not function in such an atmosphere. He demands exclusively that our Faith be in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 8:1-2,11). If faith is moved to something else, the Believer will find himself once again being ruled by the sin nature. That's why Paul said, "Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (which refers to God's Way, which is Christ and the Cross)" (Rom. 6:3-5, 13). Otherwise, the sin nature will rule the Believer.

The sin nature is one of the single most important subjects for the Believer. To not understand the sin nature, how it works, and how it is controlled, is to invite disaster.
 
By Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

The sin nature is a result of the Fall. When the believing sinner comes to Christ, the sin nature is made ineffective (Rom. 6:6).

It will remain ineffective if the Believer maintains unceasing Faith in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14). If the Believer ceases to look to Christ and the Cross, but rather makes something else the object of his faith, no matter how good the something else might be, the Holy Spirit will not function in such an atmosphere. He demands exclusively that our Faith be in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 8:1-2,11). If faith is moved to something else, the Believer will find himself once again being ruled by the sin nature. That's why Paul said, "Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (which refers to God's Way, which is Christ and the Cross)" (Rom. 6:3-5, 13). Otherwise, the sin nature will rule the Believer.

The sin nature is one of the single most important subjects for the Believer. To not understand the sin nature, how it works, and how it is controlled, is to invite disaster.
Hi IL
Want to know something interesting?
I've been following Jimmy S. from when I was still Catholic. The 80's. My husband and I went to see him twice as Madison Square Garden in NYC. We lived in Queens. For me, it was as much fun as going to a concert.
Then I remember when Donnie came on board - he must have been about 30?

Two weeks ago, my daughter and I and my 2 granddaughers drove up to Milan because Donnie was going to preach at an Assembly of God church. It was great. Maybe I just enjoyed being with other believers - all Catholics around here. They're okay. Some are really saved - but the doctrine makes me a little crazy.

Anyway, yes, everything you've said is correct and in keeping with mainline Protestant theology. You've stated that if the sin nature is understood, it makes understanding everything else easier. Christianity seems so simple tome, but we love to complicate it...

This is for you: :clap

Thanks for reminding me of those great services, rallies, whatever they were!

Wondering
 
To the OP:
1 John 3:9
No one who is a child of God is habitually guilty of sin. A God-given germ of life remains in him, and he cannot habitually sin--because he is a child of God.
 
By Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

The sin nature is a result of the Fall. When the believing sinner comes to Christ, the sin nature is made ineffective (Rom. 6:6).

It will remain ineffective if the Believer maintains unceasing Faith in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14). If the Believer ceases to look to Christ and the Cross, but rather makes something else the object of his faith, no matter how good the something else might be, the Holy Spirit will not function in such an atmosphere. He demands exclusively that our Faith be in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 8:1-2,11). If faith is moved to something else, the Believer will find himself once again being ruled by the sin nature. That's why Paul said, "Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (which refers to God's Way, which is Christ and the Cross)" (Rom. 6:3-5, 13). Otherwise, the sin nature will rule the Believer.

The sin nature is one of the single most important subjects for the Believer. To not understand the sin nature, how it works, and how it is controlled, is to invite disaster.
Swaggart would be more accurate if he dropped off the word 'nature' from the places he says 'sin nature'.
For the believer, sin does not come from the sin nature. They don't have that anymore. It comes from the desires of their flesh bodies. But he is making a valid point in regard to maintaining faith. The believer who rejects faith and, as a result, serves the flesh again will eventually lose the Holy Spirit and be turned over to a reprobate mind (again). He will be turned over to a mind set on the desires of the flesh just as it was before he was born again. But this time there will be no opportunity offered for repentance. He is lost forever. If it's any consolation to anyone, I think God takes a long, long, long time before he does that in a person because he does not want anyone to perish, but to have life, but his long suffering does not mean forever.
 
I've been following Jimmy S. from when I was still Catholic. The 80's.
I listened to, and supported him after getting saved in 1986. But I dropped him like a hot potato when he got caught with those women. Sorry, Jimmy. I'm confident God can restore you, and probably did, but your credibility and trustworthiness as a teacher is gone forever for me. It's a shame, too. He was so incredibly gifted.
 
What exactly is the sin nature?

Can the sin nature reign in the life of a Believer?

Can Satan override the will of a Believer?

Romans 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The flesh of everyone has sin dwelling therein and evil present with us. These are the conditions of the flesh, believer or unbeliever. It is a flesh world that is set in direct and opposing contrast to the Spirit. The world of flesh is the world of domination and survival of the fittest.

The Spirit works the exact opposite direction and is in opposition to the flesh and against the flesh.

This "internal reality" is what caused Paul to see his own "wretched man" factual condition.

Romans 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

The answer is in the statement itself. The Hope of the Gospel is to be delivered from the body of death, into the Spiritual Body of Christ, which is the promise that we bear in the flesh currently. Some think it's a reality currently, but it's not. It's a partial reality and a promise of change, when that change actually transpires.

Paul, seeing the opposition to the Spirit in his own body, took himself to the lowest rung on the sin totem pole, understanding this principle, claiming the opposite of what the majority of christians claim, that being "sinners, of whom I am chief." And he made this statement in direct recognition of his situation of being in a wretched body of death.

So, yeah, there is a state of warring in our own body. Romans 7:23. It's quite pointless to say otherwise when anyone who is in truth knows it. IF there is a war, and there is, then there is also an enemy or enemies internal. And that's where the sights of all fleshly/carnal minded believers gets dicey, because few will see our adversary in the flesh is the tempter.

But if they do, at that point the war really begins, and we question every thought, bringing them CAPTIVE and into submission in our own BODY/MIND, as we are supposed to. This battle can turn against us and get ugly quickly however, into a myriad of traps of our adversary. Very few believers are truthful in this arena. And if they are they are generally led to "hide" the enemy in their own flesh, rather than expose same. They will instead seek to justify the contrary and against the Spirit flesh and the workings therein. They will pretend their flesh isn't contrary and they will never see that the flesh bears our adversary.

It can't be done, legitimately. And rather than lining up for eventual judgment of our adversary, we defer that judgment to everyone else but ourselves. That is not how the Promise will transpire. We as believers will be judged FIRST, just as Isaiah stated in:

Isaiah 3:14
The Lord will enter into judgment with
the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.

Peter spoke identically, here:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Obedience to the Gospel is obedience to what it says about our condition. I doubt that there will be any liars and hypocrites lining up for adverse judgments. But I suspect it will fall upon all flesh, regardless, to greater and greater degrees, in the intensity of the war. It is a progressive war. Sin does become "utterly sinful" by the Laws of God. Sin is strengthened by the law, Gods Words, to RESIST God in Christ.

That is the strangle hold that is meant to fall upon all flesh, believers first. And from my seat this strangle hold on the flesh is already upon us, easily observed by everyone pointing fingers at everyone else in potential condemnations. This activity has already scourged the churches and cut them all up into little pieces, each one justifying themselves as totally right when the opposite is true.

That house is not the church buildings. It is our own wretched dead body.

IF we seek our Promise, we may want to examine what/who we are delivered from. Where the enemy(s) really do reside, and seek that ADVERSE Judgment of Him, rather than laying it off and blaming other spiritually blinded people.

I have great HOPE however, that it is in Gods Sights to deliver, one by one, in Truth and the reception of HIS MERCY, which is the greatest gift of God, sorely needed. When we enter into HIS MERCY there is no turning back.

2 Chronicles 7
1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the Lord filled the house.
2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord had filled the Lord's house.
3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the Lord upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the Lord, saying,
For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

That external picture in 2 Chron. above was written for US. Every last one of us should seek the consumption of our own wretched body by the FIRE of Gods Mercy.


Isaiah 27:
12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.

Perhaps a little heavy for the lounge. But one by one, believers will see it.
 
Last edited:
I listened to, and supported him after getting saved in 1986. But I dropped him like a hot potato when he got caught with those women. Sorry, Jimmy. I'm confident God can restore you, and probably did, but your credibility and trustworthiness as a teacher is gone forever for me. It's a shame, too. He was so incredibly gifted.
Jethro
He's still gifted. He made a mistake -he's human.
Do you know anybody who's perfect?
I agree though that it was a terrible testimony.
Long discussion...

Wondering
 
Jethro
He's still gifted. He made a mistake -he's human.
Do you know anybody who's perfect?
I agree though that it was a terrible testimony.
Long discussion...

Wondering

Yet believers will still follow him around like horses with a bit in their mouths. I don't get it, but whatever.
 
Swaggart would be more accurate if he dropped off the word 'nature' from the places he says 'sin nature'.
For the believer, sin does not come from the sin nature. They don't have that anymore. It comes from the desires of their flesh bodies. But he is making a valid point in regard to maintaining faith. The believer who rejects faith and, as a result, serves the flesh again will eventually lose the Holy Spirit and be turned over to a reprobate mind (again). He will be turned over to a mind set on the desires of the flesh just as it was before he was born again. But this time there will be no opportunity offered for repentance. He is lost forever. If it's any consolation to anyone, I think God takes a long, long, long time before he does that in a person because he does not want anyone to perish, but to have life, but his long suffering does not mean forever.
Okay. I see why we disagree.
First, I don't know what church teaches that the sin nature is dead. I'm not going to ask where you go, but it would be interesting to know.
Here's the difference in what we believe:

I say there's a sin nature and it's put under dominion.
Romans 6:14
For SIN shall not be master over you. NASB
It's not saying the sin nature is dead, it's saying it's no longer the master.

Romans 8.3
He condemned sin in the flesh.
The SIN (nature) in the flesh was condemned. It was not eliminated.

Colossians 3:1-4
Paul is saying that we HAVE been raised up with Christ. We're saved. And then he goes on to tell us to keep our minds on things above, not on things on earth.
Colossians 3:8-10
Paul explains what "things" are no longer to be practiced.

What would make a saved person practice these things if the sin nature were dead?

And in Romans 7:14-18
His flesh is sold into bondage of sin.
verse 18. Nothing good dwells in his flesh and he says in
verse 17 that it's his SIN which INDWELLS that is causing him to commit sins and do what he does not want to do.

Do you separate the "flesh" from the "sin nature"?
Let's assume that you're correct and they are separate (although I do not believe Paul separates them)

So now we have this "flesh" that sins.
WHAT makes it want to sin??

Wondering
 
Yet believers will still follow him around like horses with a bit in their mouths. I don't get it, but whatever.
Smaller,
What does "follow around" mean?
Should we NOT listen to any preacher for fear of being labeled a follower?
We follow Jesus.
We listen to different preachers and teachers to learn about our Christianity.
Jesus told the apostles to into all the world and PREACH the gospel.
Mark 16:15

If there's no preaching, HOW would the gospel get seminated?

You suppose there's a preacher that's perfect?

Wondering
 
Smaller,
What does "follow around" mean?

It means the blind follow the blind. It means horses follow the one with the bit in their mouth.
Should we NOT listen to any preacher for fear of being labeled a follower?

I don't listen to anyone who can't speak truthfully. Nearly everyone in the pulpit speaks with half a loaf. The side that their followers like to hear and will pay to hear. That just ain't my gig.
We follow Jesus.
We listen to different preachers and teachers to learn about our Christianity.
Jesus told the apostles to into all the world and PREACH the gospel.

I don't belong to various "God bless me" clubs.
Mark 16:15
If there's no preaching, HOW would the gospel get seminated?

Don't get me wrong. Paul rejoiced however Jesus was preached. Even if done in pretence. That may even mean rejoicing if Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses proclaim their stuff. But I personally don't listen to the bulk of what is proclaimed because the bulk of it is in pretence, largely for CASH and institution building.
You suppose there's a preacher that's perfect?

Find one that will say otherwise. They are slim pickins. Nobody would pay for preaching if it was TOO truthful. That much is certain.
 
Back
Top