The Sin Nature!

[iLOVE]

Malachi
WHAT is making the flesh up there DO all those horribly wicked things??

The answer is the sin nature. God has only one way for victory, and that way is maintaining faith in Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. This gives the Holy Spirit latitude to carry out this great work within our lives. Remember, Romans 4:5 says, "God awards righteousness only on the basis of faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Paul says in 1 Cor. 1:23 NKJV, "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;"

There are millions of spirit filled Believers that love the Lord who are divorce, separated, in a sexless marriage, have addictions, in debt, and the like mentioned in Gal. 5:19-21. They are ruled by the sin nature because of works, self, and performance.

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

 

[iLOVE]

Pastor Jimmy Swaggart - The Expositor's Study Bible

And He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water (symbol of the Holy Spirit [John 7:37-39]), that brings forth his Fruit in His Season (John 15:1-8); His Leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever He does shall prosper ("His Leaf" corresponds with the "Tree of Life"; everything that man does dies; everything Jesus does lives forever and is blessed). Psalm 1:3

 

[GodsGrace]

No.
Paul explains what is 'new' about us in Romans 8. We have a different mind set. Not a body that doesn't sin anymore.

I agree Jethro.
Our body will always sin.
But our mind set will keep it to a minimum.
Had I posted Romans 12.2 ...?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

"The flesh" is a metaphor, in direct contrast to "the spirit" (which is not a metaphor). It is not muscles and sinews, but the heart and soul of the unregenerate sinner. So the flesh MAKES ITSELF do everything sinful.

Malachi
It's a concept. We agree here.
The body = flesh
We sin with the body. With the REAL body sometimes (doing drugs) and sometimes we sin with the heart, as CE pointed out. From your example: Envy, wrath. But it's still the "body", it's not the SPIRIT that sins.
The spirit is of God and does not sin. The body sins. Anything that is not sin, is body.
Am I not explaining it in a way that is understood??
You know, carnal - meat - of the body.
Carne means meat. It's also literal.

Our Spirit affects both the Body and the Soul.
If one doesn't have the spirit, he'll tend to do more damage his body.
If one doesn't have the spirit, he'll tend more to have a hard-conscience or be amoral. (soul)

In the O.T. times they thought the heart was the keeper of emotions, but it's understood to be the soul today.
Same difference.

Disagreement?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

What mankind inherited from Adam and Eve is the tendency to avoid holding oneself accountable for sins. Hence self-deception is what makes the heart deceitful. Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the Serpent, and the Serpent blamed God.

Yes. Well, they inherited that too. Man hates responsibility and is always trying to pass the buck.
But do you believe this is what was in the fruit of the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Wasn't it EVIL that was in that tree? And the knowledge of evil?

Your concept is new to me -- if you care to expound.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

The answer is the sin nature. God has only one way for victory, and that way is maintaining faith in Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. This gives the Holy Spirit latitude to carry out this great work within our lives. Remember, Romans 4:5 says, "God awards righteousness only on the basis of faith in Christ and His Finished Work. Paul says in 1 Cor. 1:23 NKJV, "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;"

There are millions of spirit filled Believers that love the Lord who are divorce, separated, in a sexless marriage, have addictions, in debt, and the like mentioned in Gal. 5:19-21. They are ruled by the sin nature because of works, self, and performance.

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

GREAT!
You've said it all.
And I love The Way of the Spirit and
Man's Way

Gee. Wonder where you got that!! :yes

Wondering

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One who is not saved. They belong to Satan. Their sin nature is dominant. They either don't want to fight it...

No, you're still misunderstanding.
The 'don't want to fight it' in them, that IS the sin nature.

The sin nature is the mind set on the desires of the flesh. Being born again, your mind is no longer set on the desires of the flesh. The 'don't want to fight it' is gone and has been replaced with a 'I want to fight this (but I'm weak)'. Paul says, if this is not true, then you are simply not born again...you do not have the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're saying it's the flesh that makes us sin.

I'm saying sin comes from the flesh in the believer, not from a mind set on the flesh. How do I know that? Because Paul said that because of the Spirit we do NOT have a mind set on the flesh anymore. If we do, we simply do not have the Holy Spirit and, thus, are not born again and don't belong to Christ.

Do you remember the difference between how it was before you were born again and how it is now? Before being born again righteous things were the invading enemy force in my mind. They got in the way of my sinning. But now that I'm born again UNrighteous things are the invading enemy force in my mind. They get in the way of my righteous living. As long as I have the Holy Spirit it will always be this way, because I have been changed. The old is gone, the new has come, as Paul says. Does that mean Jethro will never again entertain the desires of the flesh? No, it means when he does he is acting against the new mind set on the Spirit he received when he was born again and received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So just because we have a flesh, doesn't explain WHAT makes it sin - or tend toward sin, or be inclined toward sin.

At your age (no offense intended) I'm surprised that you haven't learned through experience and observation as your body ages how much sin originates in the simple biology of your human flesh and brain. I have. It was a stunning revelation to me.

I understood what sin's relationship is to the flesh of our bodies and minds. Life is all about hormones and the natural biological functions of these flesh bodies. The difference being now that my fundamental mind set is not in cohorts with those functions and desires anymore. I've learned, and am still learning, how it is the deceitfulness of the flesh (with satan's help) that leads us into sin. And without the Spirit our fundamental nature is to be in complete agreement with those deceitful feelings and desires. But now, in the Spirit, my fundamental nature is to be opposed to those deceitful feelings and desires that rise up in my flesh and mind and heart. The old mind set on the flesh is gone forever. The desires of the flesh continue on, though. But now I have the mind of Christ that moves and motivates me to fulfill his will, not the will of my deceitful flesh. Again, that doesn't mean Jethro always does that. When he fails to do that he is living contrary to what he really is in regard to his new mind set, his new nature--the new mind set on the things of Christ, not the things of the flesh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

we do not wish to grieve the Holy Spirit

That's your new nature, wondering. Your old nature was that you did not give a flip about the Holy Spirit. You did not even know who he was, and when he invaded your mind with righteous thoughts and convictions they were alien and offensive to you. But now, because you have a new nature, your fundamental mind set is to seek to know and please God. That old nature is gone forever....if one belongs to Christ, and if they do not later reject Christ.
Are you kind of getting this now?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The flesh is not making you sin - the flesh is your BODY. The term for flesh in Greek is "sarx", it means the physical body. Romans 7:14 states that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh. The physical body, in and of itself, cannot make you sin. It's just a thing. Something must give it the directive to sin.

I wish the whole church could see how incomplete, and as a result, inaccurate it is what you have set forth here really is. They'd have more success in their struggle with sin if they did see it. Look at this verse. It shows us how the source of sin really is very much biological and fleshly:

"22Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness..." (2 Timothy 2:22 NASB)

Aging in my body as I am, I began to realize that with that aging of my body so the desires of my body wane. You don't see many 90 year old men and women going clubbing, do you? That's because the deceitful desire for that brand of debauchery is a fleshly, bodily desire that drives a person to sin. And which my fundamental mindset, if I'm not born again, is in complete agreement with. But even in the not born again person that desire fades even as the flesh and brain fade. It demonstrates how truly accurate it is for sin to be about our flesh bodies and brains. And why we need a new mind set on the things of the Spirit to motivate and empower a battle with that flesh body and brain.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Malachi
It's a concept. We agree here.
The body = flesh
We sin with the body. With the REAL body sometimes (doing drugs) and sometimes we sin with the heart, as CE pointed out. From your example: Envy, wrath. But it's still the "body", it's not the SPIRIT that sins.
The spirit is of God and does not sin. The body sins. Anything that is not sin, is body.
Am I not explaining it in a way that is understood??
You know, carnal - meat - of the body.
Carne means meat. It's also literal.

Our Spirit affects both the Body and the Soul.
If one doesn't have the spirit, he'll tend to do more damage his body.
If one doesn't have the spirit, he'll tend more to have a hard-conscience or be amoral. (soul)

In the O.T. times they thought the heart was the keeper of emotions, but it's understood to be the soul today.
Same difference.

Disagreement?

Wondering

1 Corinthians 6:18;
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body".

 

[smaller]

I wish the whole church could see how incomplete, and as a result, inaccurate it is what you have set forth here really is. They'd have more success in their struggle with sin if they did see it. Look at this verse. It shows us how the source of sin really is very much biological and fleshly:

"22Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness..." (2 Timothy 2:22 NASB)

IF sin is biological, then reason might dictate it can be eliminated by CHEMISTRY.

Sin is not biological. It is anti-spiritual in nature. Evil, if you prefer.

Biological? You think an old man can't be a sinner because of different (aging) biology? I think not.

Biological? Can we reproduce it by putting chemicals in a skin bag? Uh, no. Can we cut open the flesh and find it? Uh, no. Can we examine the mind and find evil present therein? Uh, no.

Where do people get these ideas? From sin dwelling in their flesh.

Sin is presented as 3 things in the N.T.

1. Anything not of faith.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This also links sin to DOUBT.

2. Transgression of the law.

This one pretty much puts the nail in the coffin on everyone.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

3. Sin is of the devil. It is DEMONIC.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The DEVIL sins in every person by blinding them to the Gospel, and stealing Word from them, making ALL sinners in the processes, because that THEFT of Satan transpires IN them, in their own FLESH. This makes "sin" universal to every person because that theft does happen to ALL. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2.

We may not like to hear of number 3, but number 3 is a reality. And that one is one that the devil doesn't really like ANYONE to hear because it exposes his HOLD upon the flesh.

Sad but true. What did the Psalmist say:

Psalm 51:3
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

 

[iLOVE]

By Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

The sin nature is not removed when the believing sinner comes to Christ. While it is not removed, it is, in fact, made dormant. It's sort of like an electric appliance that is unplugged. So what causes it to be revived?

The Believer, in effect, now has three natures. They are:
1. The human nature;
2. The sin nature; and,
3. The Divine Nature.

The latter is obtained when you first come to Christ, and then the war begins, which is between the sin nature and the Divine Nature. In fact, that war, will continue until the Trump sounds or until you die.

The sin nature is revived in the Christian because the Christian places his or her faith in something other than the Cross of Christ. That being done, the Holy Spirit residing in the heart and life of the Believer is now greatly hindered in what He can do. Inasmuch as He works exclusively within the parameters, one might say, of the Finished Work of Christ, He demands total Faith in Christ and the Cross on our part. When our Faith is placed elsewhere, this is a direction in which He cannot work. That being the case, we are left on our own, meaning that now we are trying to live for God by self-effort, which is woefully inadequate.

Such a Believer will then begin to fail the Lord with a predominate sin taking place within his or her life, and doing so over and over again, which is what we mean by a recurring sin. That's when the sin nature is then ruling the Child of god, which makes life miserable, to say the least. That's what Paul was talking about when he said, "Oh wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Romans 7:24).

The only answer to the situation is for the Believer to come to understanding that Scripturally his victory is totally in Christ and the Cross and in no other manner. He is then obligated to place his Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, which then gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work in his life. Then and then only can the recurring sin be defeated and stopped.

 

[GodsGrace]

By Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

The sin nature is not removed when the believing sinner comes to Christ. While it is not removed, it is, in fact, made dormant. It's sort of like an electric appliance that is unplugged. So what causes it to be revived?

The Believer, in effect, now has three natures. They are:
1. The human nature;
2. The sin nature; and,
3. The Divine Nature.

The latter is obtained when you first come to Christ, and then the war begins, which is between the sin nature and the Divine Nature. In fact, that war, will continue until the Trump sounds or until you die.

The sin nature is revived in the Christian because the Christian places his or her faith in something other than the Cross of Christ. That being done, the Holy Spirit residing in the heart and life of the Believer is now greatly hindered in what He can do. Inasmuch as He works exclusively within the parameters, one might say, of the Finished Work of Christ, He demands total Faith in Christ and the Cross on our part. When our Faith is placed elsewhere, this is a direction in which He cannot work. That being the case, we are left on our own, meaning that now we are trying to live for God by self-effort, which is woefully inadequate.

SOMEBODY GO GET JIMMY!!

 

[iLOVE]

SOMEBODY GO GET JIMMY!!

LOL

 

[GodsGrace]

I wish the whole church could see how incomplete, and as a result, inaccurate it is what you have set forth here really is. They'd have more success in their struggle with sin if they did see it. Look at this verse. It shows us how the source of sin really is very much biological and fleshly:

"22Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness..." (2 Timothy 2:22 NASB)

Aging in my body as I am, I began to realize that with that aging of my body so the desires of my body wane. You don't see many 90 year old men and women going clubbing, do you? That's because the deceitful desire for that brand of debauchery is a fleshly, bodily desire that drives a person to sin. And which my fundamental mindset, if I'm not born again, is in complete agreement with. But even in the not born again person that desire fades even as the flesh and brain fade. It demonstrates how truly accurate it is for sin to be about our flesh bodies and brains. And why we need a new mind set on the things of the Spirit to motivate and empower a battle with that flesh body and brain.

Jethro,
Don't you love the lounge? I do.
Because I can ask you this:
You told me you don't give a c... what churches teach. This tells me you don't really have a church.
So, I have to ask you this: How did you come up with your theory about the sin nature?

I ask because I don't know any church that teaches this; mainline, I mean.
I hope you're not one of those guys who reads the bible and depends on the Holy Spirit.
Please let me know.

W

 

[iLOVE]

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. This false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough! Galatians 5:9 / Galatians 5:9 NLT

 

[iLOVE]

Questions?

Why did Peter deny Christ?

Why did "Job's" wife want Job to curse God?

Why did Job refuse to curse God?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. This false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough! Galatians 5:9 / Galatians 5:9 NLT

Which is funny because I was thinking to myself that this hill really isn't worth dying for.
The only danger in knowing that the sin nature--the old mind set on the things of the flesh--is dead and gone forever (as long as you have the Spirit) is if a believer becomes lax in the battle with sin. Sin is still very much in our members waiting for it's next opportunity to deceive us and cause us to entertain it's desires. But thanks be to God we have a new nature that can combat it. See, Paul said the old nature--the mind set on the things of the flesh--CAN'T please God. But you are all sure you still have that old nature. Way to go .