The son of perdition

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is the son of perdition that is to be revealed a re-appearing of Judas Iscariot?

 

[Knotical]

Re-appearing? Explain. As Christians we do not believe in reincarnation, so I am not sure what you are getting at here.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Re-appearing? Explain. As Christians we do not believe in reincarnation, so I am not sure what you are getting at here.

hello Knotical, dirtfarmer here

Resurrected.
Revelation 13:3 " And I saw one of his heads as it was wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."
John 6:70, " Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you twelve, and one of you is [a( not in the original)] devil."

 

[Knotical]

I am not seeing the connection you are making here. Are you suggesting Judas was/is the Anti-Christ, or somehow related to the beast referenced in Revelations.

That would be quite the leap in coming to that conclusion.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I am not seeing the connection you are making here. Are you suggesting Judas was/is the Anti-Christ, or somehow related to the beast referenced in Revelations.

That would be quite the leap in coming to that conclusion.

hello Knotical, dirtfarmer here

In John 6:70 Jesus called Judas "diabolos" not "daimonion". Diabolos is translated devil while diamonion is translated demon. In John 17:12 Jesus said non is lost but "the son of perdition", if I understand correctly there is only "one", signified by the use of "the" son of perdition. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 "the man of sin" that is revealed is "the son of perdition". The later phrase of verse 4 states that he sits in the temple of God showing himself to be God.

In Revelation 13:3 one of the heads of the beast "wounded to death and the wound was healed", is this not speaking of resurrection? What is Acts 1:25 stating when it says that "might go to his own place"? In the Greek does "his own" mean more than a destination, but a special place for him?

Just asking to see how others understand these scriptures.

 

[Diego]

The son of perdition is the same as the little horn in Daniel 7. The little horn did not rise to power until after the 4th beasts kingdom was divided among the 10 horns, which corresponds with the iron leg kingdom dividing among the 10 toes. In 2 Thessalonians it says there was something holding the man of sin from appearing. According to ireanus , Paul told the Thessalonians face to face that this was the Roman Empire under the Caesars holding the man of sin back. It was only until the Roman Empire was divided and brought down in the 5th century , that the papacy was able to rise to power. The papacy exalted himself in the temple of God, meaning the church.

 

[dirtfarmer]

The son of perdition is the same as the little horn in Daniel 7. The little horn did not rise to power until after the 4th beasts kingdom was divided among the 10 horns, which corresponds with the iron leg kingdom dividing among the 10 toes. In 2 Thessalonians it says there was something holding the man of sin from appearing. According to ireanus , Paul told the Thessalonians face to face that this was the Roman Empire under the Caesars holding the man of sin back. It was only until the Roman Empire was divided and brought down in the 5th century , that the papacy was able to rise to power. The papacy exalted himself in the temple of God, meaning the church.

hello Diego, dirtfarmer here

Where do you find that the papacy was ever in the "temple of God", as meaning the church. Do you mean the Roman Catholic church?

 

[Diego]

hello Diego, dirtfarmer here

Where do you find that the papacy was ever in the "temple of God", as meaning the church. Do you mean the Roman Catholic church?

Hi dirtfarmer. The papacy exalted itself as the head of the church, as the vicar of Christ, as the rock that the church is built upon. If you look in the history of the papal rule, you will see for over 1000 years the papacy waged war against the saints and the lamb, that he exalted himself above all in the church, and even had power to appoint and bring down emperors. So yes i do mean the Roman Catholic church , which has highly influenced modern Christianity. The papacy fulfills the little horn and man of sin perfectly

 

[dirtfarmer]

Hi dirtfarmer. The papacy exalted itself as the head of the church, as the vicar of Christ, as the rock that the church is built upon. If you look in the history of the papal rule, you will see for over 1000 years the papacy waged war against the saints and the lamb, that he exalted himself above all in the church, and even had power to appoint and bring down emperors. So yes i do mean the Roman Catholic church , which has highly influenced modern Christianity. The papacy fulfills the little horn and man of sin perfectly

hello Diego, dirtfarmer here

The papacy is not the head of the church, that is Christ. Nor do I see that the Roman Catholic Church is the vicar of Christ. The true Church is built on the foundation stone which is Christ, not the Pope in Rome.

While I do not deny that the Roman Catholic Church has, and I believe still does, wage war against the Lamb of God. From history I do understand that the Roman Catholic Church ruled over emperors, but that doesn't make it the true Church.

 

[Diego]

hello Diego, dirtfarmer here

The papacy is not the head of the church, that is Christ. Nor do I see that the Roman Catholic Church is the vicar of Christ. The true Church is built on the foundation stone which is Christ, not the Pope in Rome.

While I do not deny that the Roman Catholic Church has, and I believe still does, wage war against the Lamb of God. From history I do understand that the Roman Catholic Church ruled over emperors, but that doesn't make it the true Church.

I never said it was the true church. I'm saying the papacy is the Whore church, the mother of all Harlots. The papacy "claimed " supremacy over the church, and ruled over it with an iron fist for over 1200 years killing millions who went against her rule. As I said, the papacy fulfills 2 thess and Daniel 7 perfectly

 

[reba]

Closed for review

 

[reba]

ALL POSTERS
This thread was closed last night as i was on the 'tablet' and dont use it well ... it is reopened with a warning to follow the TOS

Discussion of Catholic doctrine is limited and will only be allowed in the One on One Debate Forum and End Times forum only. RCC content in the End Times forum should relate to End Times beliefs. Do not start new topics elsewhere or sway existing threads toward a discussion or debate that is may be viewed as ‘Catholic’ in nature.
No one is being silenced just please be respectful to those brothers and sister we may not agree with..

 

[I_love_Springtime]

I've been taught that the son of perdition is talking about anyone who goes into perdition.

 

[Winnie]

It says the 'beast' in revelations. Satan is referred to as the red dragon.

 

[n2thelight]

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The son of perdition (destruction) is the one who causes mass destruction .He orders his millitary to use the abomination that causes desolation which annihilates many people.
He uses it during the war of armeggedon.
http://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm
All those who follow islam in the middle east going to have a very bad day.They should have never messed with the US and Israel.

 

[dirtfarmer]

The son of perdition (destruction) is the one who causes mass destruction .He orders his millitary to use the abomination that causes desolation which annihilates many people.
He uses it during the war of armeggedon.
http://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm
All those who follow islam in the middle east going to have a very bad day.They should have never messed with the US and Israel.

hello Shilohsfoal, dirtfarmer here
In post #5 I asked the question; In Acts 1:25 it is stated " that he might go to his own place", is this in reference that the lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels?

 

[for_his_glory]

In Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been thrown out of heaven. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire and Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) which causes man to take its mark, Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

[dirtfarmer]

In Rev 12:3 the other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been thrown out of heaven. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This is also confirmed in Rev 17 as mystery Babylon is described. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire and Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon) which causes man to take its mark, Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Have you ever considered that "ten nation" beast could be the revival of the Turkish empire, which is Islamic?

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Have you ever considered that "ten nation" beast could be the revival of the Turkish empire, which is Islamic?

There are only seven remaining nations that exist today, but yet fall under the heading of four Empires as the last standing major Empire is the Roman Empire that still exist today even in Jerusalem. This is the little horn found in Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27. Iron represents the stronghold this nation had and even today as it is revived from its deadly wound back in . Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them in 1798 by General Berthier of France , Daniel 7:23-25. The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini who revived this Empire so no, it is not a Turkish Empire as even the Muslims will hand over the Dome of the Rock to this revived Roman Empire.