Bible Study The sons of God and daughters of men?

[th1b.taylor]

Let me ask you again in another way.

Any thoughts on how the sons of God, a religious caste of men, continued producing giants, after the flood?


JLB

That can only happen genetically, just as it still does, today. God created our DNA and he place that gene, just as Hr did all of our genes.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Yes it's easy to refute the position that human beings produced Nephilim giants, since there were no sons of God from the offspring of Adam, whose one act of disobedience brought death upon all mankind.

Man! Even the scientists admit that there is not a single person on this earth and likely never as been that does not originate from the first mother of mankind. Surely you didn't mean t osay Adam, did you?

 

[calvin]

That's new testament. We were not given the power to become sons of God until after Jesus finished His work on the cross!

The book of Jubilees, gives more detail about them calling on the name of God...It actually says they were trying to provoke God by what they were doing...(The fallen Angels).

Firstly Edward, the book of Jubilees is not part of the canon of Scripture.
Secondly it is wrong for anyone to assume that God can not adopt as a son anyone He chooses at any time He chooses.
Also as for the New testament exclusivity of sonship,
2Sa 7:14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men,Esv.
'when he commits iniquity' ? can't be Jesus can he?
Exo 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the LORD, Israel is my firstborn son,' (the nation of Israel, study it )and this is in harmony with Psalm 82:6.
You can not and should not ignore the plain teaching of Scripture in an effort to prop up a failed and limp argument in favour of angels procreating with women.
No further, if as the Scriptures tell us, all men whose thoughts led by the Spirit are sons of God.
But this has been argued before. If you did not or could not learn anything there is little point in repeating.
Why not go over past posts and learn why sons of God are mostly men.

 

[Edward]

Firstly Edward, the book of Jubilees is not part of the canon of Scripture.

It's quoted from in scripture.

Secondly it is wrong for anyone to assume that God can not adopt as a son anyone He chooses at any time He chooses.

Brother, do you see what you just did?! You said, it's not scripture...here's some more not scripture!

Of course God can any time He chooses. But these were select people in the OT, not everyone.

Have a blessed day Brother.

 

[Edward]

What's so hard to believe about giants and hybrids? Does it offend your sensibilities that much?

Scripture describes hybrid type beings in heaven. Four faced beings with the faces of man, Ox, Lion and bull...doesn't turn when it changes direction? Better get used to it...that's where we're going!

 

[JLB]

As I pointed out to you and any other interested readers, there is no chronology taught in either 2 Peter or Jude.

This statement would be a good example of your opinion interjected into scripture.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

Peter associates these angels who sinned with the time of Noah, as He also does in 1 Peter 3.

19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:19-20


Jude associates the angels who sinned with the sexual immorality in Sodom.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 6-7

Since there is no other angels who sinned in this manner, we know he is referring to the angels who sinned during the time of Noah, since he also quoted Enoch, it's a dead give a away what he is referring to in verse 6, since the book of Enoch is all about that event.



JLB

 

[Chopper]

The sperm of the man possessed by the demon will enter a woman and produce a half human & half demon, and in this case, a giant.

 

[Edward]

Well we do know one thing for sure about giants and Nephilim.

They can be killed. Remember that, just in case.

 

[chessman]

Peter associates these angels who sinned with the time of Noah,

Not in 2 Peter 2 he doesn't. That's simply your opinion.

But if (for the sake of argument) Peter was associating the timing of placing of the angels who sinned in Hell in chains to the time Noah built the ark, then how are these angels free to 'bread' with women?

You've failed repeatedly to answer this question. Are you prepared to answer or are you not going to give an answer and leave your opinion weak?

 

[JLB]

Not in 2 Peter 2 he doesn't. That's simply your opinion.

But if (for the sake of argument) Peter was associating the timing of placing of the angels who sinned in Hell in chains to the time Noah built the ark, then how are these angels free to 'bread' with women?

Genesis 6:4 plain says and afterward, which indicates they continued to do this after the flood, in which we find giants had populated the promised land during the time of Moses and Joshua.

So the idea that these angels were cast down to hell during the time of the flood is not from the scriptures.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

• The scriptures in 2 Peter 2:4-5 associates the angels who sinned with the time of Noah.
• The scriptures do not say when the angels who sinned during the time of Noah, and afterward, were cast down to hell.

JLB

 

[Edward]

I have a good question. If...Lucifer fell and took one third of the Angels with him...then...where did all the evil spirits come from, and demons which Jesus cast out regularly in His time here?

He wasn't casting out fallen angels, it was demons and spirits, it says so. So where'd they come from? Scripture doesn't say? Oh yes it does...!!

 

[calvin]

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

Hello calvin here.
can you please explain (from Scripture) just when you think the 'in those days' were?

 

[chessman]

So the idea that these angels were cast down to hell during the time of the flood is not from the scriptures.

That was calvin 's point about this passage. And it's correct.

The scriptures in 2 Peter 2:4-5 associates the angels who sinned with the time of Noah.

Incorrect. Maybe you have an understanding of your seemingly two contradictory statements that I'm not understanding. But I don't see it. Which is fine of course because 2 Peter 2:4-5 says nothing about the time they were cast down to Hell other than it's flow through history and that it occurred past tense. But once again, you have failed to answer a relevant question.

Were angels in Hell (in chains) procreating with women in your opinion?

BTW, "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials".

Were Noah and his sons godly?

 

[th1b.taylor]

This statement would be a good example of your opinion interjected into scripture.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

Peter associates these angels who sinned with the time of Noah, as He also does in 1 Peter 3.

19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:19-20


Jude associates the angels who sinned with the sexual immorality in Sodom.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 6-7

Since there is no other angels who sinned in this manner, we know he is referring to the angels who sinned during the time of Noah, since he also quoted Enoch, it's a dead give a away what he is referring to in verse 6, since the book of Enoch is all about that event.



JLB

Man, everybody is going out of context today.

JudeNew American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Warnings of History to the Ungodly
1 Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ: 2 May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.

3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. 9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
(My thanks to the Bible Gateway where I copied.)

The angels spoken of here are in chains somewhere and I suggest to you that they are, what, not having fun? (Isa 14:12, Luke 10:18 & Rev 12:1-17)

 

[Edward]

In Matthew 24, we see Jesus speaking privately with disciples. What shall be the sign of thy coming? They asked Him...So here's how He answered them:

The very first thing He says...
v4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you...

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [The fallen angels and Nephilim, not man!!]


39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.../

Man, was NOT SO EVIL that God wanted to wipe them out!! Get that out of your head. He loves us more than you can comprehend. He would not do that to us. If you've ever experienced the slightest touch of God it is love. He loves us regardless. Don't you understand that? While you were yet a sinner...Yes. Agony for you while you were a sinner. Because He loves us and would not that any should perish.

If man was so evil that God wiped us all out...then we all better buy raincoats. There is much more sin in the world nowadays than in Noah's day. Not only just increased population wise, but strongholds of evil-wise. They're stronger now than they used to be. And more of them...because of their shenanigans with our women. It's in the scripture, he prepares to make war with God...

There is a Spiritual Battle going on...keep your eyes open and your sword sharp.

 

[Edward]

Hello calvin here.
can you please explain (from Scripture) just when you think the 'in those days' were?

Brother...four verses more and we're in the flood! So your answer is...before the flood.

 

[chessman]

Man, was NOT SO EVIL that God wanted to wipe them out!!

Genesis 6:12-13 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth. And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before me, for the earth was filled with violence because of them. Now, look, I am going to destroy them along with the earth.​

four verses more and we're in the flood! So your answer is...before the flood.

How about you, can you explain how angels who are in Hell, in chains are free to 'shenanigan'?

 

[Edward]

Genesis 6:12-13 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth. And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before me, for the earth was filled with violence because of them. Now, look, I am going to destroy them along with the earth.​

How about you, can you explain how angels who are in Hell, in chains are free to 'shenanigan'?

Right. The flood was an act of mercy towards man...that he may live. Satan corrupted God's creation...if God had not sent the flood, then eventually even Noah's descendants would have been corrupted and no flesh could be saved. Me and you would not have been born, or had a chance at living in heaven with our Lord.

All flesh was corrupted...except Noah, he was perfect in his generations, meaning not corrupted, in his DNA. So God, in His infinite wisdom had mercy towards mankind...and killed off all of the corruption and contaminated blood lines. That chessman may live!

Let us all praise God for the flood! Remember, Nephilim can be killed! Personally, I like 45/70. Even David had a sling.

Not one word about the sin of mankind in those verses you posted. It just says corrupted flesh. Hmmm?

 

[Edward]

I guess it would have been cool if God had just came down and lightning bolted them all and fix all flesh in the twinkling of an eye...but I guess that's not how He does things. He does it Justly. There is a court system in heaven. Maybe you've heard of it? Judgement, throne, a place where satan stands accusing us? da da da...

Besides, I think it God's plan to...let man experience evil to the nth degree, then when we get to heaven...we'll appreciate it more and give God more glory for it!!

The fallen Angels...I'm pretty sure that the Book of Enoch says that they were imprisoned for 70 generations. So they're probably out by now. I wouldn't doubt it because of the rise and proliferation of evil in the world.

But, that's Enoch, so I'm a false prophet, right? Even though everyone agrees that Enoch was the most righteous man that ever lived (which is why God took him!)...and the Book starts out saying...this book isn't for the generation of when it was written, but for a distant generation. So you know...nevermind, right?

:yes Yes, Brother.

 

[Edward]

How about you, can you explain how angels who are in Hell, in chains are free to 'shenanigan'?

Ah! I remember! It's been awhile since I read Enoch, but not all of the 1/3 of the Angels of heaven who went with Lucifer were imprisoned.

It wasn't all of the fallen Angels who sinned against God in this way with our women. In fact, Enoch says that the fallen Angels talked abo0ut it and argued amongst themselves...for fear of what God would do to them for (shenanigans). It was a bit later, and somehow they drew up a blood pact and officiated it on Mt. Herman. Not all of them, but some of them.

There's your answer Brother.

How long is a generation, anyway?